laurafromtexas

Next year, my husband and I will be taking our 18-year-old daughter to Europe - 1st time for her, first time in 25+ years for us. To save money, we will be staying at Hilton properties using points and will intersperse these with B&B's. I'd appreciate any comments on my itinerary so I can tweak things:

Nights 1-4 - Rome (including day trip via train to Pompeii) - Cavalieri Hotel
Nights 5-7 - Florence (including day trip via tour bus to Cinque Terra) - Hilton Florence Metropole
Nights 8-9 - Tuscany (will rent a car for this portion and visit several towns) - Considering Torraccia di Chiusi agriturismo in San Gimignano
Nights 10-11 - Venice area - not sure that I want to stay at Hilton in Venice; my husband raced bikes in Italy and has a fondness for Castelcucco, the area in which he lived. Would anyone recommend staying in that area and taking a train into Venice for the day?
Nights 12-14 - London - Hilton Metropole
Nights 15-17 - Bath & Cotswalds - Hilton Bath City
Nights 18-19 - Lake District -- B&B to be determined
Nights 20-22 - Edinburgh and surrounding area - possibly Holiday Inn Express using points

I know that all this planning seems early, but we need to reserve our hotels with points ASAP. Thank you in advance for your help!

janisj

I love LOVE every single place you are traveling. But you are trying to squeeze in too many destinations in too short a time.

When looking at your itinerary, 2 nights someplace does not equal 2 days there. You lose between 1/2 and nearly 1 full day every time you move. Packing/Checking out/traveling/Checking in/unpacking easily eats up most of a day.

Plus day 1islikely a jet lagged fog and the last day is shot preparing to fly home.

So in reality you have 20 days to visit 8 major destinations. Some, like Rome and London are huge w/ many major sites.You have just 3+ days in Rome and 2+ days in London.

1.5 days in Tuscany;
2+ days for Edinburgh plus 'surrounding area';
Barely 1 full day in Venice if you decide to stay outside the city

You get the idea. You will be traveling/transferring more than 'seeing'.

janisj

meant to add -- assumed you plan on driving for Bath/the Cotswolds/Lake District/Scotland. If so, your plan is even MORE hectic since you have some long drives there.

laurafromtexas

janisj, thanks for your input. Ugh - this is so difficult! What to cut out??

janisj

You have 3 weeks (and lots of Hilton points )

So think about an Italy trip . . OR . . a Scotland/England trip.

3 weeks is a nice amount of time for 6 or 7 days in London, 3-4 days for Bath and the Cotswolds (however, Bath is not really a good base for the Cotswolds. 1 or 2 days in Bath and 2 days IN the Cotswolds is better), 3 days in the Lake District, and 7 days in Scotland. A week in Scotland is long enough to see Edinburgh and a couple of other areas -- but NOT to "do" Scotland.

Or, you could do 6-ish days in Rome, 3 days in Florence, 3 days in Venice, and a week+ for Tuscany and one other destination/region.

laurafromtexas

janisj, thank you SO MUCH for your insights. They are much appreciated!

My husband is a traveling salesman and yes, we are blessed with lots of Hilton Points!

Here's the problem. My daughter is an avid Latin student and Rome, Pompeii, and Bath are on her MUST-SEE lists. Plus, she has done Scottish dancing for 8 years so she really wants to see Scotland, even if for just a couple of days.

Meanwhile, I REALLY want to see Tuscan towns and the Cinque Terra. I've heard lots of good things about Florence too, but 2-4 hours at art museums would be about our limit. Would it be heresy to cut out Florence altogether and add a day or two near San Gimignano?

My husband has such fond memories of Northern Italy, but frankly, I was not that wowed by Venice when I went as a teenager. My daughter wants to go there simply to ride a gondola, which I hear is VERY expensive these days. Perhaps I could convince them to cut that portion of the trip out.

We know we need to see Rome and London but typically enjoy small towns more than big cities with all the bustle and stress; thus, the idea of spending 6-7 days in Rome and/or London is a bit overwhelming.

Given those factors, what would you recommend? Thanks again so much!

jent103

I don't think it's heresy to cut out Florence. But it really doesn't save you much time - you only had one full day in Florence anyway, if you're doing a tour to Cinque Terre.

I'm not a huge big-city person either (with the major exception of London - it's one of my favorite places). But you basically have two or three big cities plus a bunch of smaller towns/cities, so you've got a good balance. I do absolutely agree, though, that you need to cut some things out. If you happen to not be using points in Rome (or London, but I think especially Rome) renting an apartment might be a good idea, as it'll be more likely to be in a calmer neighborhood area. I just did this and it really helped me feel less overwhelmed in Rome, I think.

Did I miss exactly when next year you're going? That would make a big difference in terms of what you might cut out. For example, if you're going in August, Edinburgh will be quite crowded due to the Festival, but if you're going in March the Lakes/Cotswolds may not be the best use of your time.

This is just a stab at something, mainly cutting out Venice and the Lake District. (Both of those are places I really like! But if your husband really wants to go to Venice/Castelcucco, maybe you could only do Tuscany *or* CT. And you could swap the Lakes for the Cotswolds if you want to, though they would take longer to get to.)

--

Day 1 (don't forget, you'll be jet lagged as all get out, coming from Texas): Rome
Days 2-5: Rome, with day trip to Pompeii (it's a long day trip; there are lots of threads here about it)
Day 6: Travel to Tuscany
Days 7-8: Tuscany
Day 9: Travel to Cinque Terre
Days 10-11: CT
Day 12: Travel to London (not entirely sure of the best way to do this, actually, but if it works out)
Days 13-16: London
Day 17: Bath (maybe as a day trip from London? it's an easy one and would save you moving around)
Days 18-19: Cotswolds
Day 20: Travel to Edinburgh
Days 21-22: Edinburgh
Day 23: Fly home

I find that it helps me to think about days rather than nights. You'll spend a large part of a day getting from Italy to the UK, so calling that a "night" in London doesn't really mean you'll have much time <i>in</i> London. That's just a first thought, and I'm not sure about the logistics of getting to London from CT. It looks like there are direct flights from either Genoa or Pisa to London, but how easy it is to get from the CT towns to those airports and then catch a flight, I don't know.

cathies

I think that its essential to stay in the heart of Venice. You only have a small amount of time there, so make the most of it. Yes, its a bit expensive, but not in the scheme of the cost of the entire holiday. My assistant at work is heading to Europe soon and one of the things she talks about most is a gondola ride in Venice - I hope she isn't disappointed.

I would skip London, Bath and the Lake district on this trip and fly straight from Venice to Edinburgh and explore Scotland in a little more detail.

I think you are on the right track with your plans, they just need to be tweaked a little so that you don't spend the majority of the trip travelling from one place to another.

jamikins

Just jumping in - you can fly Pisa to London or Genoa to London - it will take several hours of travel (train then plane) but those are your easiest options to get from CT to London.

annhig

Hi laura,

i have to agree with what the others said - too many places in to little time.

based on what you have told us you want to see [which did NOT include London] this is what I would suggest:

Day 1 Fly into Venice. no better introduction to Italy, IMHO. stay 4 nights
Day 5: train to Rome - stay 4 nights
Day 8:train to Florence. stay 3 nights; including one day trip with a guide into the Tuscan hills. [alternatively, hire a car, stay in tuscany and do a day trip to Florence - your choice]
Day 11Travel to Cinque Terre. stay 3 nights
Day 14: train to milan; fly to Edinburgh stay 3 nights
Day 17: Fly to Bristol, pick up car. drive to cotswolds /Bath [you perhaps have to decide which you want as a base]
Days 18-19: Cotswolds
Day 20: Travel to London; deposit car
Days 21-22ondon
Day 23: Fly home

this gives you a bit of backtracking across Italy, but it puts you in a good place for flying home - London, and starting your trip - Venice.

have a great trip!

qwovadis

First congrats on your trip

couple of thoughts for you to save

Rental cars are quite expensive

Regional trains like a local are cheap

Seat61.com

Hilton has good properties in big cities

Molino Stuky in Venice is very nice for example

From personal experience priceline betterbidding.com for me $120

Lots better than BB if you run out of points

To save might fly RT into LON ryanair.com in advance cheap to Italy from there

Aa.com for me recently 2 free RT with their CCs for my wife and myself

With their AAdvantage card only 40000 miles required

Divide time between the UK and Italy

Ricksteves.com

Eurocheapo.com

Onebag.com

Excellent money saving sites

Lastly too far to day trip to Amalfi from Rome

overnite at someolace cheap and specal down there

Www.hoteldelfino.com recently for me $60 Otel.com plus cash back and a dc on facebook

Just snagged a king suite at the Crowne Plaza Galleria in Dallas with them $59 all in

So awesome value...

Happy Planning!

qwovadis

Ostia-antica.org more intact than Pompeii a do not miss for me close to Rome
In the UK Bath and Hadrains wall best for latin influence.

Rental cars one way massive drop off charges usually avoid that
RT air usually lots cheaper than one way except for euro econos.

Happy Planning

laurafromtexas

Wow, tons of helpful (and sometimes conflicting) advice! That's what makes this forum so beneficial.

OK, so I definitely hear all of you loud and clear -- too many places in too little time. I will try to cut out certain things so as to have a more relaxed trip. My husband and I talked about Venice and will probably cut that out. Our daughter wants to study in Italy during college, and hopefully my husband and I can return and visit the areas in which he cycled then.

Here are some thoughts about our plans/your recommendations. Please chime in with your thoughts as well.

I know that we could probably save money flying round-trip in/out of London, but that would mean TWO flights to Italy -- one going and one returning. Wouldn't the extra cost of 2 flights plus all the extra travel time negate the savings?

Regarding the Cinque Terra, our thought was to do a highly-recommended bus tour out of Florence for a day trip. Doing it this way appealed for two main reasons -- we would avoid having to pack/unpack in yet another city and we would not have to hassle with any of the logistics associated with a trip like this.

The same reasons apply to our desire to do a day trip out of Rome, even though I know it will be a long day. No need to haul bulky suitcases on a train (my daughter and I are unfortunately not light packers) and have to pack/unpack yet another time.

Regarding our hotel in Rome, thankfully the Cavalieri IS in a calmer neighborhood. While some may not like this because it's out of the city center, it appealed to us. The hotel has a free shuttle to the city center every hour.

Regarding when we're going: we plan to leave around May 23 and return June 15. We were going to start in Southern Italy to enjoy the late spring weather and journey north as the weather warms up.

Have to run right now, but I will look at your recommendations in detail a bit later. Thanks again!

mamcalice

Just a few thoughts. I would skip the day trip to Cinque Terre. The beauty and charm of this area is the hiking and the exploration of the small towns. A day trip by bus wouldn't show you the area in the best way. Why not save it for a later trip?

If you skip Venice and CT, that will leave you with Rome, Pompeii, Florence and rural Tuscany in Italy. You will have fewer moves and more time to enjoy the plaaces you stay.

In the UK, skip either the Cotswolds or the Lake DIstrict and add the two days to London. London is an amazing city and can't be appreciated in two days.

By all means, fly into Rome and out of Edinburgh. You will save time and money.

Have a wonderful trip.

janisj

"<i>I know that we could probably save money flying round-trip in/out of London,</i>"

Probably not. Open jaw flights are usually about the same price (or close enough) and save you money and a TON of inconvenience traveling back to the arrival city to fly home

"<i>By all means, fly into Rome and out of Edinburgh. . .</i>"

Not necessarily. There are lots of options: Into Venice/home from the UK (London or Edinburgh or Glasgow); into Rome/home from the UK; Into the UK/home from Rome. plus others. The only thing I'd avoid is flying home from Venice since flights leave VERY early in the AM and getting to the airport is a hassle.

JBX

Ditto on suggestion to pass on day trip to CT. I'm unclear how you can truly enjoy the ambience of area w/ bus load of other travelers. Will all participants be trekking from Riomaggiore onward ??

Better use of your time to add that day to the Tuscany portion of your itineray .... you've mentioned you'd rather explore smaller cities/towns.

As others have suggested, an "open jaws" ticket can be a good bang for your buck. When on an airline's website, look for "multi-city" option (vs round-trip) ..... additionally, may also consider booking all flights thru a carrier.

For example, if your home base is Dallas and American Airlines is your airline of choice, could fly from DFW to Rome (route would likely go thru CHI or JFK); then since AA code shares w/ British Airlines, could fly from either Rome or Pisa on to London; finally, depart from London on AA back to Dallas.

Because your tentative travel dates are outside the 331 day parameters, I keyed in an earlier schedule for travel (April-2012) ...... roughly, cost for ticket DFW-FCO-LHR-DFW now shows around $1300.

jamikins

On the note of bus trips to CT - we were there for 5 days last year and nothing looked like more of a nightmare than the bus tours. The towns are tiny, and when you get a bus tour of people the crowds are ridiculous. The trains were packed, then the areas these tours were in were super crowded, even the paths they were walking looked like h3ll. We beelined for other areas until they were gone. Horrible to be caught up in. I would definitely give it a pass this time and plan to go back when you can do the towns on your own and avoid the bus tours yourself!

laurafromtexas

You all have given some wonderful tips, many of which I plan to incorporate. It pains me to give up CT, but you're probably right. Hopefully, we can return in 2-3 years and see the things we're missing this go-round. So glad to hear about the open-jaw flights being feasible. Also, after hearing about the exhorbitant fees for rental cars dropped off in other cities, I've decided it would probably be prudent to do a train from Rome to Florence and again from Bath to Edinburgh and then just rent a car for side trips from those locations. Sure wish we had more time (and money. There are just too many wonderful sights to cram in. Thanks again!

janisj

just a note about drop off fees. The big drop charges are for when you pick up in one country and drop in another Italy to France for instance (and no, for these purposes England and Scotland are not considered separate countries )

Within most countries, and especially in the UK -- one-way rentals are not a problem.

laurafromtexas

janisj, that is good to know -- thanks!