Day 4 is going to be a long day. Maybe worth visiting Alacahöyük - http://www.hittitemonuments.com/alacahoyuk/ - and stay the night in Boğazkale after visiting Hattuşa and Yazılıkaya.

Day 8 - The neolithic site there is Aşıklı Höyük - http://www.asiklihoyuk.org/ - a nice little site next to the river. Seems like they've built a reconstruction of the habitations since I visited in 2008 (similar to the ones at Çatalhöyük - http://www.catalhoyuk.com/ - also worth seeing if you've got time).
You could probably visit Ağzıkarahan on the way from Göreme to Ihlara. And Sultanhanı on the way from Ihlara to Konya.

We took a car ferry from Bursa to Istanbul, drops you off Yenikapi terminal.

P.S. 2 nice Hittite monuments near Beyşehir are Eflatun Pınarı and Fasilar (see the Hittite Monuments website - http://www.hittitemonuments.com/ ).

Day 20 - Akhan was locked up and undergoing renovation when I visited it in 2007, but still worth a quick look if you're passing.

Croesus - Thanks for mentioning Alacahöyük and directing me to another wonderful Web site! And for bringing the Hittite sites near Beysehir to my attention.

Good to know that day 4 might be too packed. If I stay in Boğazkale, will I have time to reach Ankara the next day with enough time to visit at least the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations and the Ataturk Mausoleum, and still reach Cappadocia before nightfall?

Aşıklı Höyük sounds fascinating, as does Çatalhöyük. If I have to choose between them (as I probably will), have you a recommendation?

And thanks for the warning about Ak Han. As you suggest, if I have a little extra time and am passing nearby, it might be worth checking out. The portal sounds quite remarkable.


Michel_Paris – That ferry sounds wonderful – thanks for mentioning it! I love traveling by water.

Choosing between Aşıklı Höyük and Çatalhöyük is a tricky one. Çatalhöyük is the more famous with two very interesting areas of excavation but it would be a bit off your route. So, I'd say go for Aşıklı Höyük since it's very close to the Ihlara Valley and in a nicer position next to the river with views of Hasan Dağı in the distance.

After leaving the Ihlara Valley you should be able to visit Aşıklı Höyük, Sultanhanı and the Mevlana Museum on your way to Beyşehir. If you're making good time approaching Konya, Zazadin Han, just off the main road, is also a nice one to visit.

It's about 2.5-3 hours drive from Boğazkale to Ankara and another 4-4.5 hours on a fast road onwards to Cappadocia, so you could possibly do that in 1 day if you start fairly early.

You will be adding 4 hours additional driving time plus all the time you will be spending in Ankara traffic if you include Ankara on your route from Bogazkale to Goreme.

I have some more questions:

- Must you visit Konya?

- seeing a couple of Han will give you enough of an idea unless you are deeply interested in han architecture. Because, basically they are two or three courtyards with rooms around them. Maybe a nice entrance but no other onamentation or carvings.

- Catalhoyuk is interesting and worth the trip if you also include the Manazan caves near Karaman and possibly Alahan at Mut. So going through Ermenek and Anamur with anemurium on the route can be more interesting than taking the traditional Beysehir route towards Antalya.

you probably should not be too greedy.

Decide:

- to be the slack-jawed tourist or not
- to be the archeology and history expert or not
- to be an architect or not
- to be an adventurer or not
- to not miss every place mentioned in major guide books or no
- to be always in search of photographic opportunities or not
- to be mostly a lover of nature and natural sights and formations or not
- to spend time with locals and be like a sociologist or not
- to try to empathize with the locals and think like a behavioral psychologist or not.
- to try to test your stamina on long drives, long hikes, or not

You cannot be all of the above, so you have to pick a few depending on your self-definition.

And finally, leave something for the next time, even if there may not be a next time. (I am still happily married to my first wife. But it does not mean that I cannot dream even at 67)

We passed through Konya, but did not stop as we were too rushed for time. I like the idea of flying from Cappadoccia to Antalya if you can work out the car drop, leaving more time for other sites. We did visit Bodrum, but if I had to do it over again, I would skip traveling all the way there as it took us out of the way and I wasn't enthralled with the city. We stopped at many of the sites you have proposed and they were lovely.

Croesus: Thanks for the additional information! I’ll plan on Aşıklı Höyük rather than Çatalhöyük unless other parts of my plan shift substantially. And thanks, too, for the driving time estimates - I really should have checked viamichelin or mappy before posting a possible plan. (BTW, have you found viamichelin and/or mappy estimates to be generally near the mark for driving times in Turkey? Is one more reliable than the other, or is there a better option?)


Otherchelebi: You have given me what I needed -- a dash of reality! Although my heart aches to find a way, my head knows that I can’t see even my pared-down wish-list in the time I have. Better to face that with your help than without!

At the risk of TMI: Traveling had been a goal for mine from as early as I can remember, but time and circumstance prevented me from doing so for most of my adult life. When I finally became able to travel with at least some regularity, I realized that even if I continue to take a 3 – 3 ½ week trip once a year, it will take me until I’m about 105 to see my A list. (There is SO much to see and experience in this world!) So while I still have energy and at least the delusion of reasonable fitness, I try to pack my trips with as much as I can. But I don’t wont to develop unrealistic plans, and I do want to ensure that I have the time and energy to experience the core things that I make part of any final itinerary in the way that made me want to visit them in the first place. So I’ll happily deviate from a plan whenever I feel the urge to do so, but I’d like to plan well enough that deviations are not common. So thank you (and everyone else!) for helping me hone my plan. And please feel free to keep reminding me that there is always that “next” trip – after all, I spent years thinking there would NEVER be a trip at all, let alone a next one.

(And if I may be so bold, otherchelebi, permit me to wish that your dreams and your realities only and always enhance each other, and permit me to offer the same wish to your 1st and only wife.)

As always, I take your advice very seriously. I will take Konya off my list (and I will feel particularly comfortable doing so because of dgunbug’s comment). I will visit at most 2 han (unless I just happen to be near one when I’m ready for a quick break from driving – I think I’m a safer driver if I stretch a bit at least every 2 hours or so).

I will do more research on the route from Cappadocia through Anamur rather than Beysehir. What appealed to me most about Beysehir, from what I read, was the scenery. I think I’ll see a lot of differient types of spectacular terrains, but I didn’t think I would otherwise have any time around Turkey’s lakes (with the possible exception of Iznik), and the lake regions sound lovely. Throw in a few recommendations to see the reputedly unusual wooden mosque in Beysehir, and I was sold! (At least until I read your comment.) But I had also been fascinated by many of the options you’ve described for a route from Cappadocia through Ermenek and Anamur, so I’ll re-investigate. I keep going back to the drawing board, but each time I go back, I do so with a little more information and somewhat better questions – and that’s what planning an itinerary is all about (in my experience).

As you and Croesus are pointing out, trying to see Ankara between Bogazkale and Goreme made little (if any) sense, so I’ll plan on staying overnight in Bogazkale if I do days 4 to 5 of the above itinerary. If I’m reading correctly, the flight from Istanbul to Ankara is only about an hour, so maybe I can fit in a day (with an overnight, if possible) to visit Ankara at either the beginning or the end of my trip. I would hate to miss either the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations or the Ataturk Mausoleum.

Perhaps I should clarify that long hikes are not on my agenda. I once fell while on a solo hike during the days when I was still quite fit. My injuries were minimal and my tiny 1st aid kit held what I needed, so I was able to keep going, but the trail was challenging and I couldn’t help but note that it was almost 2 hours before I ran into anyone else – what if my injuries had been more substantial? It was a gentle lessen about solo hikes. While I enjoy a relatively short hike now and then on paths that others hike (or that others know I’ll be hiking), I’m not looking for anything challenging, long, or isolated.

To return to your basic message, otherchelebi, and to mix metaphors a bit, you have hit the nail on the head: I don’t want to decide between all the various roles you list! Instead, I do want to experience the tremendous diversity that Turkey offers! And that is, indeed, the crux of my dilemma. I find that I have much clearer memories of the things I see and do on a particular trip when I see and experience a wide range of things (and, moverover, a range of things that differ markedly from those I’ve seen or done on other recent trips). So I do seek to include diverse experiences in my journeys. Yes, I need to drop some possible roles and experiences and places from my plans, but I want to include as rich a tapestry of as many different things as I can. And I am grateful that you and others are helping me set the loom for my tapestry.

The good news (and I do know this!) is that I’m going to love my time in Turkey, whatever I see or do there – I wouldn’t have chosen it for my next journey without absolute confidence that it will be a trip-of-a-life-time. I know that I am extraordinarily lucky to be able to travel, and no matter what I drop from my wishlist for Turkey, I’m going to have an amazing set of experiences and a lifetime’s supply of wonderful memories. And I’m really fortunate because I not only get to travel, but I get to plan my trips with the benefit of the wisdom and experience that you and so many Fodorites share so generously -- awesome!


dgunbug: t Thanks for these additional comments!

You and otherchelebi have persuaded to drop Konya from my plans.

I’m really glad you mentioned Bodrum. Your comments, and a recent post by otherchelebi, confirmed my worst “fears” about Bodrum. I think I would enjoy the museum and fort, but the rest of it, probably not so much…. Is there another spot that makes sense for an overnight stay between Kas and Selcuk (given the goals I outline for days 16 and 17 in the above itinerary)? (Otherchelebi’s photos of Datca inspired me, but I didn’t think I could get there conveniently.)

< How are you progressing with your plans to visit China? >



All of this information is SO helpful – many thanks to all of you, and please keep offering your wonderful insights and perspectives!

I'm afraid I didn't do a trip report on Turkey, but I just looked at pictures to review what we did. We had about 3 - 31/2 weeks and I don't know how we could have packed in more. We were moving. Like you, we don't do the "relaxing"...there's way too much to see and do. Basically the itinerary was as follows: Istanbul-Ankara (via overnight train)- went to museum which we could have skipped, Mausoleum (enjoyed)- picked up rental car and headed to Cappadocia (no stops). Stayed in Goreme. Be sure to get to Zelve & Derinkuyu to see underground city. Drove from Cappadocia to Antalya through Konya but did not stop. From Antalya visited Side one day. May have visited Aspendos & Perge as a day trip or on the way to Cirali. From Cirali took day trip to Phaselis. Visited Myra on the way to Fetheye - to Bodrum Stayed in Oludeniz (beach area) - Didyma, Miletos & Pyrene in one day - I think on the way to Kusadasi - we stayed there and were pleasantly surprised. Enjoyed the shops and talking to shop owners at night. Outside of Ephasis we visited Sirince - interesting small town. Visited ruins at Aphrodisias - good museum there, Pamukkale (long drive but interesting), Ancient Pergamum to Bergama - Behramkale - ruins at Assos overlook the town - then to Troy and back to Istanbul. (Troy could easily be skipped). I think you could skip Bodrum and drive from Fethiye to Kusadasi - but don't recall for sure.

China is coming along slowly, but we are getting a grasp on it. Will fill you in later.

Dgunbug, how did you like Fethiye? Did you get to either Patara, Tlos or Kalkan while you were along the coast?

We enjoyed Fethiye. Did not get to the other cities you mention. Unfortunately, there's only so much that one can do in a short time.

dgunbug - thanks so much - this is very useful information!

MinnBeef - I'm currently thinking of skipping Fethiye, Patara, Tlos and Kalkan, so I'll be interested to hear what you decide.

To all - I'm now thinking of skipping Trabzon, Amasya, Konya, Bodrun, Didyma, Miletus, and Priene. That would mean that I would fly into Ankara and after a couple of nights, drive to Bogazkale, spend the night, and then go to Cappadocia ... later, I would go from Kas to Pamukkale (etc.) for a night and from there to Selcuk or some other location suitable for visiting Ephesus. Nothing is final yet, and I am still making a number of other decisions and choices. As always, comments are welcome!

"I would fly into Ankara and after a couple of nights, drive to Bogazkale, spend the night, and then go to Cappadocia "

Yes, that sounds better to me. Maybe have a quick look at Alişar Höyük on the way from Boğazkale to Cappadocia. It's only a slight detour and I'm not sure if there's much to see but it's a pretty important ancient site. I regret having gone straight past it once.

http://www.tayproject.org/TAYages.fm$Retrieve?CagNo=150&html=ages_detail_e.h tml&layout=web

Here - http://wikimapia.org/#lat=39.6059858...9&z=16&l=0&m=b

Kja, boy, from what I've read and seen, and also what othechelebi has said, I'd regret not getting to Sumela Monastery. It just sounds so mystical and magical-a wonderful combination of architecture, ruins, mosaics and nature.

Yes, the coastal portion of my planned trip is the piece I'm having the hardest time landing on, partly due to the perceived difficulty in getting around by public transport. I'm thinking of basing myself in Kalkan as it's central to many of the cities that interest me. I'm also thinking about taking a day boat to see the sunken ruins at Kekova.

We have just posted our photographs of the Black sea including a few of Sumela at:

http://community.webshots.com/user/esercelebiler

I have been too busy these days for in depth comments on new itineraries, but will do so soon, I hope.

Croesus – I really like the idea of visiting Alişar Höyük on the way from Boğazkale to Cappadocia – thanks so much! And thanks for the additional Web links – you are a wonderful source of information!

MinnBeef – Yes, the Sumela Monastery does sound truly special; I sincerely hope to visit it one day. I haven’t made any irrevocable decisions yet, but there is a lot that I had hoped to see in eastern Turkey that I will be skipping on this trip, so adding Trabzon and the Sumela Monastery to my list of the places I hope to visit on a future trip to eastern Turkey seems worth considering to me, particularly given the time it would take for me to get there and back – and what I would have to give up to include it on this trip. But I continue to weigh options! Whatever our ultimate decisions about the Sumela Monastery and wherever we end up on the Turquoise Coast, I suspect we’ll each have amazing journeys. Still, it is difficult to choose, isn’t it?

Otherchelebi – Once again, my compliments to your wife on her incredible photographs – they are (as always) wonderful!


I’ve been focusing (when work permits) on trying to identify the greatest “redundancies” in my draft itinerary with an eye to eliminating some things that are "sufficiently" similar (whatever that means) to other things I’ll be visiting so that I can add in (or make more time for) some things I won’t otherwise experience. For example, I’m trying to figure out which primarily Roman sites I might forego so that I can fit in something like Anemurium, which I think – from what little I’ve learned so far – may be a bit different than anything else I would see. For example, I’m thinking of skipping Side (despite dgunbug’s recommendation – sorry about that!), since I plan on visiting a number of primairly Roman sites, including Aspendos, and (while I’m sure I would enjoy it) I’m not all that interested in seeing anything in Side other than its ruins. (I am, however, considering ways to make a few moments at the Manavgat waterfalls part of my travels.)

As a rule, I love planning my trips – but this phase, the whittling down – is definitely my least favorite. At least I have a wealth of information from all of you to help me do that!

I agree that, unless you have a huge desire to visit Sümela Monastery, skipping Trabzon and leaving it for another trip is a good idea. The problem is that it's a long way off your track and there are some very nice Christian frescoes in the cave churches of Cappadocia which you will probably be seeing anyway.

I must say I wasn't very impressed by Anemurium when I visited it in October. OK it's in a nice position next to the sea, but the ruins aren't very impressive.

By the way, you might be interested in the Megalithic Portal website (of which I'm a member). We've got quite a lot of Turkish historical sites listed - http://www.megalithic.co.uk/search.p...ry=&country=60

Thanks, Croesus - and sorry for the delayed response. I hate when work interferes with life! But I'm very luck to have a job, not to mention a job that let's me travel, so no complaints.

Given the difficulty I had deciding (at least for now) to skip the Sümela Monastery, I especially appreciated your affirmation of my choice. I'm sure I would love to see it, and I even think I found a way to make productive use of the time it would take to get there and back (given that I'll have to deal with jet lag in any event), but at this point, I'm having real difficulty justifying the opportunity costs - there are just too many other things I want to see in the limited time I have for this trip!

Thanks, too, for sharing your impressions of Anemurium. My guidebooks don't generally give it much coverage, so your input is particularly helpful - the more information I have, the better able I'll be to make decisions!

And thanks for yet another great Web site! I've only seen a few megaliths, most of which were in Brittany - so fascinating and evocative! BTW, do you know the poster who goes by the name FrenchMystiqueTours? He's another megalith aficionado who offers incredibly helpful advice to Fodorites.

I'm still struggling with my choices, and struggling to find time outside of work to do the research I need to do to make my choices - but I'll get there, and I know I'll make better choices because of all the input you and others are so generously providing.

If you have any comments that would help me eliminate options because they are sufficiently similar to other places I'll see (so that it might make more sense for me to find time for somewhere/something else), please let me know! There are still some things I would love to fit in if I can, and my trip is still a day or two longer than I'd hoped. As examples, I mentioned that I'm considering skipping Side since I'll be visiting Aspendos. And I'm wondering whether Pergamum, as wonderful as I'm sure it is, might be similar enough to Ephesus to consider skipping.

Thanks again!

While logistics of the trip is important, if anyone would visit Gobeklitepe, believed to change the history ! a visit to Nemrut is feaseble than and interesting. Only downside of it your questions about Gobeklitepe will be unanswered :-) Weather or not I will keep my questions but will be there very soon, can't wait to see this wonderful finding.

Happy travelling,
Murat

Thanks, Murat! I sincerely hope that I will visit Gobeklitepe and Nemrut (and many other places) on my 2nd trip to Turkey. Sounds like I'll be able to benefit from your experiences by then - please share your impressions! I often find that the best "answers" are the ones that lead to even more questions, and that seems just as true for traveling as anything else. Bon voyage!

I finally have a revised plan that I think (“think” being the operative word here) is possible given my interests and time frame. If this plan has merit, my thanks to the many Fodorites who helped me come up with it. All flaws are mine, and mine alone.

Days 0-1: Flight from US to Ankara, 1st of 2 nights in Ankara
Day 2: Ankara
Day 3: Pick up rental car; visit Hittite sites east of Ankara and spend night in Bogazkale
Day 4: Drive to Cappadocia (Goreme or perhaps Urgup or… – I haven’t decided yet); 1st of 2 nights there
Days 5-6: Explore Cappadocia. Before sunset on day 6 (my 2nd day in the area), move to Guzelyurt for the 1st of 2 nights there
Day 7: Explore the Ihlara Valley +
Day 8: Travel through Kizilkaya / Asikli Hoyuk and Sultanhani on the way to Beysehir for the night. [BTW, otherchelebi, the Manazan caves, Alahan monastery, and Anamur/Anemurium are all on my wish list for my future trip to eastern Turkey.]
Day 9: Visit Aspendos, Perge (briefly, if time permits) and the (Lower?) Duden Falls on the way into Antalya for the 1st of 2 nights there
Day 10: Antalya
Day 11: Visit Termessos and take the cable car to/from Tahtali Dag on my way to Cirali; spend the night in Cirali with a visit to the Chimaera after sunset.
Day 12: Visit Myra and Arykanda on my way to the 1st of 2 nights in Kas
Day 13: Kas, including a boat ride to Kalekoy and Kekova
Day 14: Drive to Pamukkale and begin my exploration of Hierapolis and Pamukkale; spend the night there or nearby
Day 15: Finish exploring Hierapolis and Pamukkale, visit Aphrodisias on my way to Selcuk for the 1st of 2 nights there
Day 16: Visit Ephesus (and parts of Selcuk and Sirence as possible)
Day 17: A day left largely to whim, catching up, and/or a bit of relaxation. Finish seeing Selcuk and Sirence if there is more I want to see in these places. Or if I’m not totally burned out on ruins and I want to do so, visit Bergama or Sardis. Or stop briefly in Izmir. Plan on arriving in Foca in time to walk around, watch the sunset, and eat a good meal before spending the night.
Day 18: Return the rental car to Izmir and take bus/train to Bursa, arriving by mid or late afternoon. Begin exploring Bursa, where I will spend the night.
Day 19: Explore Bursa, then – during the evening - move on to Istanbul.
Days 20-24: Istanbul
Day 25: Morning flight from Istanbul to the US.

I think this plan gives me a reasonable variety of experiences – and as I’ve mentioned before, diversity is the key to my concept of an ideal trip. I think I’m proposing a reasonable pace (i.e., enough time to see what I choose to see, given that I’m not looking for down time). I know I’m skipping a LOT of things that I’m sure I would thoroughly enjoy, but I hope I’m not skipping an entire range of opportunities that are available to those who travel to western Turkey (except for beach/boat time, which is not something that particularly interests me). This plan calls for quite a lot of driving, but I think the flexibility of having a car will justify the costs. And I’ve checked this plan against the information I have about opening times, and think I have successfully avoided predictable closures (such as museum Mondays). But any or all of these assumptions could be wrong! I can only go so far without the input of those of you who have actually been to these parts of the world, so I would really appreciate your comments.

I invite all of you who have experience with the places I plan to visit – or the places I plan to skip! – to weigh in, whether your insights are based on a single visit or years of exploration. Nothing is “written in stone” yet and I would definitely prefer to make my decisions after considering input from those of you with experience and/or expertise.

Thanks so much! And thanks again to all of you who have already provided input - I deeply appreciate (and have learned from) your efforts on my behalf.

You have worked and studied hard and have come up with a doable itinerary which should not disappoint you.

I have just a few comments:

- You may not need to spend a second night at Ankara. It has just the museum and the mausoleum. You could push off to Bogazkale your first day afternon if you have managed the jet lag with a melatonin pill the night before.

- If you decide to visit Foca and especially Bergama, you are actually rather close to Bursa and it is not a good idea to backtrack to return car at Izmir and take a bus. You will lose anything from 6 to 10 hours. Might as well continue to Bursa by car and then to istanbul and return car in Istanbul.

- Bursa has very little going for it unless you are an Islamic architecture scholar interested in its few significant mosques and attached buildings. Otherwise it is a large industrial city at the foot of a high mountain.

- If you have the rental car, it will be more interesting to drive to Iznik and stay the night there, bypassing Bursa completely.
- Sirince may or may not be worth a visit, but it is definitely not worth a second visit. Beware its fruit wines which are fake. However, there are many other interesting places, like PMD, Cave of Zeus, Dilek national park, Carina, Doganbey, Herakleia within easy reach of Selcuk.

Day 6-7, when I did this I stayed at the Çatlak Hotel - http://www.catlakturizm.com.tr/en/p/2/about-us.html - in Selime and they gave me a lift to the visitors centre with all the steps (for a fee). I then walked down the valley and eventually arrived at the Çatlak Restaurant - http://www.catlakturizm.com.tr/en/p/9/restaurant.html - at the bottom of the valley, from where they gave me a lift back to the hotel. Since there's no restaurant in the hotel, they have a "servis car" which will ferry you to and from the restaurant (which is 3km away) for free. I totally pigged out on lamb chops there one night!

Possibly an alternative to staying in Guzelyurt which is over 10kms from the valley?

There must be places to stay in Ihlara village as well, I think.

On the map:

Çatlak Hotel - http://wikimapia.org/#lat=38.3220552...8&z=17&l=0&m=b

Çatlak Restaurant - http://wikimapia.org/#lat=38.2984328...1&z=17&l=0&m=b

Ihlara Valley Visitor Centre - http://wikimapia.org/#lat=38.2534312...1&z=17&l=0&m=b

Guzelyurt - http://wikimapia.org/#lat=38.2722842...6&z=13&l=0&m=b

I love this board!


otherchelebi –

Hi again! Thanks for once again taking the time to consider my plans and offer insightful questions and suggestions!

➢ You have … come up with a doable itinerary which should not disappoint you

☺ ☺ I’m so glad to hear you say that! (Even though I can’t imagine being disappointed with Turkey.)

➢ You may not need to spend a second night at Ankara.

Perhaps, but I almost always lose a lot of sleep leading up to a trip as I burn the proverbial candle at both ends, so I won’t necessarily have “just” a case of jet lag. And I really don’t want to try driving an unfamiliar vehicle in unfamiliar territory if I’m not at least reasonably well rested. So, as nice as it would be to get a jump-start on my journey, I think I’ll appreciate (and need!) a bit of a soft landing. My highest priorities for Ankara are, of course, Anit Kabir and the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations, which I’ll be happy to visit at my leisure. If I have extra time, I’ll probably visit the Ethnography Museum, take a stroll through the Citadel…. I’m confident that I’ll find things to keep me busy as I adjust my internal clock, tune my ears to the sounds of Turkish, and celebrate the start of my new adventure. (And of course, I’ll welcome suggestions!)

➢ Bursa has very little going for it unless you are an Islamic architecture scholar interested in its few significant mosques and attached buildings.

I’m not a scholar of Islamic (or any other style of) architecture, but I find architecture fascinating, and my primary reason for visiting Bursa is, indeed, to see a few of the mosques that – at least according to what I’ve read so far – are considered noteworthy for their architecture. Some of Bursa’s other sites also sounded interesting to me, but I will definitely go back to check my sources.

➢ it will be more interesting to drive to Iznik and stay the night there

I may do that! I seriously considered that option, but I had concluded that going to Iznik would take too much of my time away from Bursa. But your comments about both Bursa and Iznik have sent me back to the drawing board to see what I’m willing to skip in Bursa to make some time for Iznik.

➢ Sirince may or may not be worth a visit, but it is definitely not worth a second visit. Beware its fruit wines which are fake.

Warning noted and appreciated!

➢ there are many other interesting places, like PMD, Cave of Zeus, Dilek national park, Carina, Doganbey, Herakleia within easy reach of Selcuk

I had given serious thought to most of these places before reluctantly deciding to skip them so I could focus my time and energy on other destinations, but I must admit that I hadn’t known of Doganbey until I read your message (a very quiet sea-side location not far from Miletus?) and I haven’t found any information on Carina. I love the depth of your knowledge of Turkey – what an incredible resource you are!


Croesus -

I LOVE the idea of finding lodging near the Ihlara Valley that will provide pick-up/drop-off service: that will make visiting this special place so much easier. Thanks for the information, the inspiration, and (as always) internet links – and for so generously providing your expertise and insights. Thanks so much!

I'm surprised at how many hotels/pensions there are in Güzelyurt - at least 8. If you're looking for a better class of lodging, I guess you'd find it there. I see the Hotel Karvalli has a great view across to Hasan Dağı. Worth finding out how much the transport to and from the valley is.

The advantage of staying in Ihlara or Selime is that you'd only need one drop-off or pick-up.

Hi, Croesus - The Karvalli looks very appealing and seems to get some great reviews - thanks for mentioning it! I wonder whether their transfer service would include having someone follow me to Belisirma, so I could leave my car there, and then drive me to Ihlara Village. That would let me take as much time as I'd like to walk from Ihlara to Belisirma, exploring as few or as many churches as I choose - and even go further if I want - without worrying about reaching a particular place at a particular time. I'll definitely check into that!

Another tweak: After visiting Ephesus (after my 2nd night in Selcuk), instead of going to Foca:

Day 17: Visit the Acropolis of Bergama on my way to Bursa; spend the 1st of 2 nights there.
Day 18: Explore Bursa, with a side trip to Iznik.
Day 19: Finish exploring Bursa, and then take the late afternoon ferry to Istanbul.

I’ve realized that I don’t want to skip Bergama, even if I only have a few hours there. I think I should be able to visit at least the Acropolis in a few hours – is that right?

I’ve considered going on to Iznik that night, but I’m balking at the idea of any additional time on the road – I’ll already be spending longer than I’d like driving that day, and now that I’ve made the decision to visit Bergama, I’d rather spend any extra daylight time I do have there than on the road.

I expect to be able to see the two mosques I most want to see in Bursa by mid-day on Day 18, but that will be a day when most of Bursa’s museums will be closed. So I would then head to Iznik, where I think (hope) the Iznik Foundation might be open. Even if not, I’m sure I’ll enjoy roaming around Iznik for a few hours. I could stay in Iznik that night, but I think I’d rather be ready to start visiting Bursa’s museums without unnecessary delay the next morning, so I expect to return to Bursa for a 2nd night. I should then have enough time to sample of few of Bursa’s museums and maybe even catch a puppet show (I have an interest in folk and traditional arts) before heading for the ferry to Istanbul.

This change in plans not only means giving up Foca (which I’m sure I would enjoy), but also giving up my one planned play-it-by-ear day. But if my plans through the end of Day 16 are reasonable, I don’t think I’ll need a “flex” day. And the fact is that NONE of my plans are written in stone, so I can ALWAYS adjust them as whim dictates.

As always, I welcome comments.

Here's some practical advice :

- Selcuk to Bergama will take 3 hours
- Just the Acropolis (without the Asclepion on the other hill) will take about 90 minutes.
- Bergama to Balikesir will be 60-70 minutes, but going through Balikesir may waste another 10-15 if the ring road is not finished.
- Balikesir to Bursa will be about 90 minutes.

Now my proposition is that you do not enter Bursa but continue to Iznik on the ring road (follow Istanbul signs) which avoids all the traffic and saves you at least 30 minutes.

This way, you can enjoy Iznik the next day when museums are closed in Bursa and drive back to Bursa at your leisure next day.

- You will also save miles and time on your way back to Istanbul by taking the ferry from Bursa (Mudanya) to istanbul

So all together, I would say at least three hours less driving some of which in very dense traffic.

- Park car in Bursa and use a guide or taxis, because you will be lost and parking is impossible.

Once again, otherchelebi, you have given incredibly welcome and helpful advice!

I LOVE this plan!

I had considered multiple variants of it, but rejected each because I didn’t think I could reach Iznik in a reasonable amount of time. I’ve been using viamichelin for my estimates, and it led me to expect a MUCH longer trip from Bergama to Iznik. After I read your message, I checked mappy, and found confirmation of what all Fodorites should know: Trust otherchelebi! So you’ve offered me an efficient solution that not only avoids backtracking, but also avoids unnecessary time in frustrating urban traffic. Perfect!

I am also delighted by your suggestion that I can visit Bergama’s Acropolis in about 90 minutes. I’d been thinking I’d have “only” 2 or 3 hours there; your answer suggests that I might even end up with enough time to briefly visit the Asclepion or other parts of Bergama. I won’t assume I can – but I’ll be sure to have a plan that lets me take advantage of whatever time I have there.

So:
Day 17: Visit Bergama on my way from Selcuk to Iznik; spend the night in Iznik.
Day 18: Go to and explore Bursa; spend the night in Bursa.
Day 19: Finish exploring Bursa, and then take the late afternoon ferry to Istanbul.

Just to be sure: the ferry at Mudanya is the same as the ferry at Guzeljali? And if I can get from Bursa to the ferry without driving, is there any reason why I shouldn’t return my rental car in Bursa?

Many thanks!

Thanks for the nice words kja.

Mudanya and Guzelyali are the same. Check ido.com for schedules.

I've returned from my journey, and am very pleased to say that it was truly wonderful - even better than I had hoped! I will try to post some observations in the not too distant future, but wanted to take a moment to express my thanks to all of you who helped me explore Turkey in such delightful and memorable ways.

kja-looking forward to reading about your trip! I know you had quite an extensive itinerary. I leave for my trip on August 24th and your experiences will be of great interest to me.

MinnBeef, you are in for a wonderful experience! I don't have the knowledge that Fodor's experts have, but feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer.

"am very pleased to say that it was truly wonderful - even better than I had hoped!"

A lot of people discover this about Turkey. I'm glad you had a good time.

Thanks Croesus, and thanks again for your help!

Can't wait to read your report.

Here's the link to my report:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ern-turkey.cfm