tcreath

DH and I are planning a trip to Europe for next April/May. We are using ff miles and are planning on flying into Geneva and out of Venice. We have been to Europe plenty of times but not to these areas. We are in our late 20's and love history, experiencing new cultures, beautiful scenery and good food although we are rather picky eaters. With all of that out of the way, here is our general itinerary:

April 27th
Arrive in Geneva; drive to Vevey
3 nights in Vevey
(daytrip to Gruyere, maybe do the chocolate train?)

Drive to the BO
4 nights in the Lauterbrunnen
(maybe daytrip to Bern)

Drive to Mennagio
3 nights in Mennagio
(visit Bellagio and Varenna)

Drive to Lugano; drop car; train to Venice
2 nights Venice

May 9th
Fly home

I originally had an itinerary that was, well, rushed. We decided to tone it down...a lot. We would like time to maybe rent bikes in Vevey and bike along the river, do some light hiking in the BO and relax and enjoy the scenery.

So, how does this itinerary look? I'm sure there is room for improvement. Any suggestions are welcome.

Also, I would like one piece of advice. We have the option of taking advantage of a free layover and staying the night in Madrid on our way home from Venice. We would get into Madrid around 10:30 am and wouldn't leave until the next day around noon. We have never been to Madrid, or Spain for that matter, so this is something that is tempting us. We understand that we would not get to see too much, but we would just kind of sightsee around the city. We are just trying to decide if its worth taking a day off one of our other locations to put it towards Madrid, and, if so, where that day would come from. My first thought would be the lakes, but I'm not sure. Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading!
Tracy

suze

Tracy~ I have a friend living in Vevey/Montreux and have visited many times. LOVE those towns. I think maybe you mean biking along the quai of Lac Leman (the promonade beside the lake?), I'm not aware of a river.

I suggest visiting Chateau de Chillon, you can get there by car, bus, train, or even walking it you are already in Montreux. It's a VERY old castle, you can take a self-guided tour. Brochures in many lanugages available when you buy your entrance ticket.

One of my favorite local activities is going to the open air street farmers market. You will find it in Vevey on Tuesday and Saturday mornings, and in Montreux on Fridays.

Gruyeres is nice too, never did the chocolate train, just drove up on our own for a 1/2 day, visited the castle (lovely) and had lunch (meat & cheese board and wine) at a quaint cafe along the main street of the town.

I wouldn't add Spain, but that's a very personal style choice. The last thing I'd want at the end of a relaxing vacation, is a quick stop in a city/country I've never been to before. But I'm sure many people would feel the exact opposite.

nrwayne

I think three nights in each place is a reasonable amount of time though I suspect you may want to give thought to your base in each area. Lac Leman is certainly attractive, but you may also want to consider Lac d'Annecy, which is about 45 minutes south of Geneva. Annecy itself is quite nice and has a number of canals. I'd suggest staying in Talloires, which is about 20 minutes away, on the east side of the lake. You can certainly daytrip up to Vevey/Montreux and Chateau de Chillon if you like. I'd skip Gruyeres. It's quite touristy and, in my opinion, not worth the effort. In the Bernese Oberland, I suggest Chateau du Lac in Iseltwald. It has a magnificent setting on the south side of the Brienzersee and is a fine base for visiting the entire region. All of this assumes you will have a car, which you did indicate. Several years back, we stayed in Menaggio and it was an OK base for visiting Bellagio and other spots on Lake Como. Not great, but nice enough. Venice is a place you have to visit at least once. To appreciate it most, you need to get away from Piazza San Marco and "get lost" in the lesser known parts of the city. Otherwise, you will end up feeding the pigeons, being their targets, and paying excessively for the pleasure. Your choice of restaurants will vary, but for the most part there's a good selection. Only a few minutes down the road from Talloires is Marc Veyrat's Auberge de l'Eridan. We had one of the most magical experiences there, but it has become prohibitively expensive. There are also more moderately priced places nearby. Within the Bernese Oberland, there are plenty of good restaurants. Menaggio, however, had more limited choices. Venice will require more research. You may want to visit www.slowtrav.com and check out the restaurant review section for both Menaggio and Venice. Whether there or elsewhere, I've found the best bang for the buck to be Michelin's Bib Gourmand restaurants, i.e., Good Meals at Reasonable Prices. At moment, that's probably about $75 or so per couple, though one can easily find opportunities to spend several times that. Last comment: save Madrid for another trip. Enjoy.

Ingo

That sounds soooo good! Except that you'll be in Lauterbrunnen at a bad time of year. Skiing season just finished, spring season not yet started. Honestly, I'd probably rather stay at Lake Thun - Lauterbrunnen and especially the other villages in the area will be dead. Many gondolas/cable cars will be out of operation, hotels and restaurants closed.

tcreath

Thank you all so much for your comments!

Suze, you are absolutely right; I meant the lake and not the river. Sorry about that! When I saw pictures of the quai I immediately thought that it looked like a great place to bike ride along. And thank you so much for the suggestions on the markets! I love visiting markets in Europe. I know from your previous posts that you've been to this area quite a few times. Is Vevey a good place to base ourselves? We like staying in smaller, charming towns and daytripping to some of the larger ones if we feel the need.

nrwayne, thank you for your thoughts! I never heard of some of the towns you suggested but am always up for suggestion so will definitely look into them! I'll be honest; Mennagio wasn't our first choice (we would probably prefer Varenna) but given that we have to drop the car back off in Switzerland (to avoid the drop-off fees of dropping in another country) it seemed the most convenient. We don't mind staying in smaller towns and actually prefer it. And thank you for your thoughts on Venice! I know we don't have a lot of time there, as most of our focus is on Switzerland and the lakes, but its somewhere that I really want to see even if for a few days. If I love it I will definitely return.

Ingo, you commented on something that I am a little concerned about...the time of year we are going. We originally wanted to stay up in the mountains but with a car that doesn't make much sense. I honestly never even thought about the fact that I wouldn't even be able to access the towns (Wengen, Murren, etc) because the transportation wouldn't be available. Lake Thun looks lovely though, and something that we are considering. Thanks to your suggestion we will look deeper into it. Is Thun a nice place to base ourselves, or do you have another suggestion?

Thanks everyone! As usually this board is invaluable!

Tracy

tcreath

Oh, and I think we may skip Madrid this time around. It looks nice enough but if I went to Spain I don't think it would be my first choice of a place to visit because in general we prefer the countryside. And after a nice relaxing trip in the mountains and lakes I'm not sure if I would be up for the hustle and bustle of Madrid!

Tracy

suze

Yes, Vevey is my personal favorite (though I like Montreux a lot too!) and I think makes a perfect base.

It's a good size town, but still quaint and charming especially around the lake, town square, cobblestone pedestrian streets. The train station is very convenient, but sounds like you'll have a car? for some things you might prefer to leave it parked and get around by bus or train (say between downtown of Vevey to downtown Montreux).

There is an excellent grocery store in a shopping mall across from the train station. I've seen it called both "Placette" or "Manor". I mention it for amazing ready-to-go foods like pate baked in pastries, pizza, quiche, fresh juice, cheese, salamis, fruits, wine, etc. I could live out of that store!

The bakeries are also very good. Most offering ready-made fresh sandwiches, along with pastries and sweets.

Annecy as mentioned above, is a beautiful resort town on a lake in the mountains, but a different direction from what you had in mind. I hope to combine it with a future Swiss trip, but don't think it easily fits the plans of what you describe, unless you skipped Vevey to do it.

bobthenavigator

I love the Lugano diversion with the car---you are thinking ! It will be cool and perhaps rainy that time of year. You must consider one of my favorite small hotels on Lake Lugano about :30 west of Menaggio. Google the Stella d' Italia hotel in San Mamete. We love that place and you can enjoy both Lugano and Como from there. The local ferry stops at their dock.

tcreath

Suze, I think we will stick with Vevey because we want to visit Montreaux and Chateau de Chillon. Thank you for the tip on the supermarket! It sounds fantastic and I'm sure we will make more than one stop there!

bob, thank you for the hotel suggestion! I just checked out the website and it looks absolutely lovely. Are there decent restaurants nearby? I'm trying to think ahead here...don't know if its a good idea to navigate the roads after lots of wine with dinner!

Tracy

Jean

Bobthenavigator's suggestion of San Mamete is definitely worth considering. I was thinking it was a shame you wouldn't be spending time at Lugano, but I understood the constraints.

BTW, the difference between staying in Menaggio or Varenna on Lake Como is just a 25-minute car ferry. Once you arrive in Varenna, park the car and explore the area by ferry.

bettyk

Tracy, when we did our trip to the BO last year, we stayed in Lauterbrunnen but did a day trip to Spiez and Thun. Thun was much bigger than I had anticipated but I liked it's vibe. It was a beautiful sunny day and there were lots of people out and about, sitting in cafes, shopping, etc. We had lunch at a Best Western right on the Lake. Since we didn't stay there, I can't tell you anything about the rooms, but the location was great and the food was good!

http://bestwestern.worldexecutive.co...els/94104.html

halfapair

I must respectfully disagree with Ingo. We stay in Lauterbrunnen in early May (arrived on May 6). The weather was cool and it did snow a little up in Murren. We did get to go up to the Jungfrau on a clear morning (we took the first train up and got to see everything before the clouds rolled in at about 9:30am.

We day-tripped to Montreaux & Bern where the weather was warm & sunny.

Since it was between the ski season & the hiking season Lauterbrunnen & Murren were VERY quiet. Some places were closed, but don't feel that we missed anything important.

Trummelback Falls was great too!

Ingo

So you don't really disagree with me, halfapair! It's just very subjective how much 'quiet' one can bear.

The mountain towns are always accessible. The schedule of mountain cog railways is thinned out, though. Cable cars and gondolas are out of operation. Of course you can go up to Mürren, Wengen, Kleine Scheidegg, Jungfraujoch. Not First, Männlichen, Schynige Platte e.g.

I stayed at Lake Thun in the Hotel Du Lac. Booked it through the Germany Travel Agency TUI and got a great rate for a room with lake view. I suppose you can book via internet www.tui.com (the rates directly from the hotel were higher). It included Half Board (breakfast plus dinner).

Thun has some nice hotels, too, and is a nice town. For some people too busy, though (hi s! .

Ingo

baldrick

tcreath,
I don't know anything about you, your age, your habits of travelling, the trips you have already taken to europe, your general interests nor your eventual specific interests in the regions you will be visiting, but i have the following, personal, remarks;
- april/may can be a strange moment to visit the Lauterbrunnen area; ski season is finished but it is no time for hiking,
- 2 nights in venice is not much...

Personally, I would take at least a day of BO and shift it to Venice, and forget Madrid...

tcreath

Thank you everyone!

I think we are going to look into Thun and then probably daytrip to Lauterbrunnen. Thanks for the hotel recommendations! Will definitely look into them.

Btw, we are going in late April/early May because we are using FF miles through AA. If the trip starts/ends before May 15 the mileage requirements are much lower (40,000 miles vs. 60,000). Since we don't have many miles left, we decided to take advantage of this. Not the ideal time, we understand, although we always travel during off-season and usually prefer it because of the lack of crowds.

baldrick, two nights in Venice definitely isn't much. I'll be honest here; the reason why we only have 2 nights scheduled is because I want to visit, DH not so much. Its not that he doesn't want to go, its just that it doesn't really interest him for whatever reason. So while he doesn't mind going, especially if it makes me happy, I tried to compromise and only do 2 nights with the thought that we will return if we love it. But I will talk to him about your comment and see what he wants to do. I don't know if we necessarily need 4 nights in the BO if we can't do many hikes and the towns will be quieter.

Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions...you guys are terrific!

Tracy

tcreath

Selfishly topping =....

suze

Do you need Vevey hotel suggestions?
(also topping for you)

tcreath

Suze, thank you! I would love Vevey hotel recommendations! Any suggestions?

Tracy

tcreath

Okay, so we are planning on purchasing our ff tickets tonight and I want to see if anyone has any last minute comments about my itinerary before I make the plunge.

Thanks!

suze

tracy, here are the two places my friends who live there send out of town guests. i've been lucky as i've stayed in their home, so can't speak to these myself. they are both simple rooms-above-a-restaurant kind of hotel, right in the heart of Vevey, near the lake and train station both.

www.hotelnegociants.ch
www.hotelgeneve.ch