logogm

I'm trying to finalize a trip of around 14-16 days, and am seeking input from those of you who have traveled in Switzerland.

Initial thoughts are:
Day 1 Leave USA
Day 2 Arrive Zurich, to Bernese Oberland immediately - spend 5 nights (4 full days) Still looking for apartment in Wengen as base (balcony with view important here).
Day 7 To Luzern for 3 nights, with 1 day for Mt Pilates trip.
Day 10 to Stein Am Rhein for 3 nights, with 1 day trip to Schaffhausen to see Rheinfall. Should we stay there? or cheaper to base in Zurich & do as day trips?
Day 13 to Zurich for 3 nights. Any suggestions for budget hotels or short term apartment rental?
Day 16 Return to USA
What do you think? Am I missing something I will regret? or spending too much time in one place?

How about passes? I'm thinking the Swiss Half Fare will help me with all the lifts/cable cars in the mountain areas.

Please feel free to critique. Thanks

bettyk

In 2006, we stayed a few nights in Stein am Rhein. We arrived mid afternoon on Sunday, Mother's Day, and it was very crowded. However, by the evening most of the tour buses had left and the town was pretty quiet. We really enjoyed our time here immensely. We had intended to drive over the the Rhine Falls but never did.

I think 2 nights in Stein am Rhein would probably be sufficient, using one day for your day trip to Schaffhausen and the Rhine Falls.

I would probably add any extra days to the Berner Oberland area. There is so much there to see and do. We visited Thun and Spiez as well as going up to Schilthorn and visiting Murren in the few days that we were there.

I'm not sure I would spend 3 days in Zurich as there are so many other charming places to spend your time than Zurich.

pja1

Hi,
I have to agree that out of the 3 nights in Zurich, 2 could be better spent elsewhere. Zermatt and the Matterhorn come to mind. Of course, again agreeing with betttyk, extra time in the Berner Oberland is an excellent choice also. We loved our stay in Wengen!
Your plan sounds very good though.

Paul

kleeblatt

You have a nice itinerary. If you enjoy being in a city the last 3 nights, Zürich is fine.

However, if you'd like to enjoy some more of Switzerland's diverse countryside, you might want to consider fitting in:

Ascona, Locarno or Lugano
or
Pontresina, Scuol, Engadin

swandav2000

Hi logogm,

You have a nice plan here, and there's not a lot we can do to improve it, I think! You've done your homework well.

I also think that three days in Zürich will be fine; you'll get to do a lot that many folks don't get the time for. You can visit Rapperswil down the lake a bit, take ferry rides on the lake, maybe spend an afternoon in Basel, a wonderful and under-rated city.

It is, however, difficult to find inexpensive rooms in Zürich. You can start looking at these sites:

www.bnb.ch
list of B&Bs in the country; you can search by town name or geography

www.rooms.ch
association of inexpensive hotel rooms

You may also want to stay in a suburb of Zürich where you can get a cheaper room. For instance, there's a wonderful and cosy little hotel called Hirschen am See in the town of Obermeilen, and it's quite a bit cheaper than staying in the city.

As for passes -- unfortunately, someone simply has to do the math. Get all the fares for all your trips (at www.rail.ch and at www.jungfraubahn.ch), add them up, and compare the sum to the various passes. Don't forget to look at the Half Fare Card, which costs 99 chf and gives you half off everything that moves in the country for one month. That's what I have been using for the past ten years!

Anyway, have a blast!

s

jmw444

Hello,

I know you've probably already considered this, logogm (hello schuler and s!), but the train ride from Lucerne to the flughafen is an hour (with a convenient 7:10 direct), and you can zip back and forth to Zurich city in about 45 minutes. I'm thinking that if you would like to add one of schuler's suggestions (or even the Lavaux coast of Lac Leman), you could combine your to-do list for Lucerne and Zurich at the end of your stay by staying in Lucerne.

Like schuler, I'm wondering how you feel about staying in cities. You do have a nice contrast in your itinerary between small and large. However, if your preference is toward the smaller end, I've got one more possibility. One year my friends and I stayed seven nights in Rapperswil on Zurichsee. We did wonderful rail and boat daytrips including Appenzell, Zurich, Einsiedeln, Lucerne and its lake towns, and Altdorf. You might check to see what the Rapperswil connections are to the zurich flughafen in the morning. If that would work, it might be a really nice alternative to both the Zurich and Lucerne hotels. The rail route from Rapperswil to Lucerne is particularly beautiful (as schuler can attest).

You'll love Switzerland. Each time you depart, you'll come home with a list of additional reasons to return. J.

PalenQ

For you train travels i have no doubt that a Swiss Pass of some type will be far better than the Half-Fare Card. You could consider the 3-day Flexipass - good for one month and 100% travel coverage on three days of your choice and in between the 1st and 3rd day you get the same benefits as the Half-Fare Card - 50% off virtually everything that moves in Switzerland - trains, boats, gondolas, city transport - everything but cows - i've scrunched the figures for trips like yours and a Swiss Pass is the best deal by far IMO and you can see for yourself at www.sbb.ch and compare regular prices with the pass and Half-Fare Card. For lots on Swiss trains i always recommend three great sites - www.swisstravelsystem.com which is run by the Swiss railways, boat companies, scenic specialty trains and has links to their specific sites and www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - these two sites have lots on Swiss trains - more than the usual listing of pass prices and an 'add to cart' button typical of online sites. the latter budget europe site has free downloads of their superb European Planning & Rail Guide that has a whole chapter on Swiss trains, itineraries, etc. and lots on places you are going. Swiss passes are sold in Switzerland but for some reason it seems at way more than the corresponding passes bought in the U.S. - Again compare sbb.ch with the two U.S. sites i mention and you will see how true this is.

logogm

To all of you who responded: a hearty thanks! Your input helped me feel certain I had a good trip planned, and IT'S BOOKED!

Made some changes based on your ideas, specifically decreasing time in Zurich. Plan now is:

Day 1 Leave USA
Day 2 Arrive BO Nite 1 in Wengen (Day 1 Swiss saver flexipass)
Days, 3,4,5,6,7,8 BO (I increased this because I asked myself what was most important for me to see & it was those mountain views -- still to be resolved is where -- need glorious view from balcony for cheap, hopefully apartment to save $ on food)
Day 9 to Luzern (Day 2 pass)
Days 10, 11 Luzern (1 day to Mt Pilates)
Day 12 Luzern to Stein (Day 3 pass)
Days 13 & 14 Stein (1 day to see Rhein Falls)
Day 15 to Zurich
Day 16 Fly home

PalenQ: You were right about cheaper with Swiss Pass vs Half Fare Card. Got prices from Budget European Travel. Cost of pass cheaper, & was able to run numbers between the 2 cards. I didn't think those 3 days of travel would add up to enough to make extra $ for 3 day pass worth it, but it did.

Swandav2000: As I said above, I used BET for fares. Had trouble getting swiss site to quote prices for point to point. Is there some trick to this? I've used the site for itineraries but have never mastered it for fares. Also thanks for the 2 web sites for rooms. B&B may be option I had not considered. Do you have any sites or recommendations for self catering apartments, especially in BO?

Again, can't thank you guys enough. Please feel free to critique further...only thing locked in at this point are the dates & flight details. Would really appreciate more ideas & help with accomodations & your experiences re: what NOT to be missed in these areas.

swandav2000

Hi again logogm,

How wonderful that you're nearly *there* with all your planning!

No, I never had any trouble getting the fares for my rail trips -- just clicked on the "fare" button when I saw the connection I wanted. I would double-check the fares quoted by BETS -- did they quote in dollars? If they used the Raileurope fares, they would be off. I'm a little suspicious because in all my trips to Switzerland (around 15 since 1995), the Half Fare Card is *always* the cheapest. Not by much, mind you, maybe only less then 100 chf, but always cheaper. So I am a little wary of the numbers they crunched for you.

Sorry, I've only rented apartments in Chateau d'Oex and in Montreux, never in the BO. But it's really simple to find them -- just go to the website (www.wengen.ch), click on the "E" (it's quite slow loading, at least on my computer), then on "Accommodation" at the top of the page, then you can do a search using the drop-down menus for an apartment in Wengen.

Hope you get all the details smoothed out nicely!

s

logogm

swandov2000: you are right! Half fare card is cheaper. I finally figured out what I was doing wrong on the Swiss site. I had always used the "timetable" option to figure out itineraries, & could not get fare from there...duh! have to go to "ticket shop" where, sure enough, fares displayed without problem. Anyway, recomputation agrees with you. Not too much difference until you factor in the expensive Jungfrau trip and the last few days in Stein & Zurich after the Flexipass would have expired. The Jungfrau trip is 50% off with the Half Fare, vs only 25% off with the Flexipass.
Thanks again!

swisshiker

Hello logogm

Ah, your first trip to Switzerland! You have done a great job of planning.

For your apartment in the BO, were you looking for a place only in Wengen or perhaps Grindelwald?

I am a big LOVER of staying in Grindelwald. The ease of transportation, the wonderful shopping, good restaurants, views like crazy, etc. make it a perfect spot for us.

Many will say the buses drive them crazy and there are too many people. But I feel it has so much to offer.

We have rented many apartments in Grindewald with (mostly) good success. Since you will be using a train pass, you'd obviously need something within a 10-minute or so walk from the station.

What is your budget, how many are in your party, and when are you traveling?

Happy travels!

logogm

Hi, Swisshiker! thanks for checking in. I would consider Grindelwald too, so would welcome your experiences. We're looking for studio or kitchenette apt, hopefully around (or less?) 100 sf, not much beyond that I'm afraid. Balcony with a stunning view is an absolute essential, so I would go up a bit in price to get that. We're (just husband and me)there Sept 10, checking out Sept 17.

bettyk

logogm, have you tried doing a search here on Fodor's for Grindelwald apartments or Wengen apartments?

There are several posters here I know have rented apartments in the Berner Oberland area. You should find some recommendations with a search.

swisshiker

Have you checked grindelwald.com? They've got a comprehensive listing of apartments in the BO area, including Grindelwald, Wengen, Lauterbrunnen. Once you enter your particular information, the prices are displayed, so you should have no trouble seeing what's available for your budget.

Although I have not stayed in either of these apartments, you will find that Bärgweid and Haberdarre have availability, are well within your budget, appear by their photos to have views, and are within walking distance of the main Grindelwald station.

Bärgweid is about 10 sq. meters larger than Haberdarre and is about a 10-15 minute walk from the station in one direction and seems to have a great glacier view; Haberdarre is a 5-10 minute walk from station in the other direction, and the view would be of the Eiger.

There are many others.

Good luck.

swisshiker

For some reason, that link did not work on my computer. Try this:

http://tinyurl.com/54peln

wrenwood

We had a lovely apartment in Grindelwald. The mountains were right off our deck, it was on the outskirts of town, all we heard were cowbells and sheep.

http://www.drawbridgetoeurope.com/Va...indelwald/1525

You can also contact Kirchbuhl Hotel directly, they have several properties.

http://www.kirchbuehl.ch/index.cfm?&lang=e

We found Grindelwald ideal for so many side trips, and it was not overly crowded when we were there in September.

PalenQ

Zurich-Wengen via Bern CHF 90

Wengen-Lucerne CHF 44

Lucerne- Stein CHF40

Stein-Zurich 21.60 CHF

3 day Swiss Flexi vs Half-Fare and Swiss Card analysis for OP journey (picked Wengen as a base)

3 days unlimited 100% covered travel would be used:

Zurich-Wengen 90 CHF
Wengen-Lucerne CHF40
Stein-Zurich 21.60 CHF*

T= CHF 156 covered 100% vs CHF 78 if using Half-Fare Card instead.

(must use this one for your last of 3 days in order to get half-off every type of transit until the 3rd day is used up)

Cost of Swiss Pass Saver P.P. $179 dollars

Cost of Half-Fare Card = CHF 99 or at $1.05=1 CHF = $104 + 3% = $107transaction/money changing fee for buying in Switzerland with credit cards or Swiss franc

$107 + half-off three days fares on unlimited 3 days ($78) = $185

$6 more than pass x two person = $12

so really about the same but this scenario was for someone who had to use a fairly cheap train back to Zurich - 21.60 euros for their third day - most would have a much larger fare - like 90 CH if going back to Zurich from Wengen.

So if the pass is cheaper than the Half-Fare card it is a no-brainer to me to buy the Pass - no waiting in lines, etc. just hop on the boat, train, bus, etc.

that said RailEurope, Rick Steves would charge i think $18 mailing fee. But some agents like www.budgeteuropetravel.com, who i always recommend for their expertise and great service IME don't charge mailing fees except for rush orders. You can buy the pass in Switzerland but then it's much more expensive than in the States in dollars - so if buying in Switzerland then the half-Fare card would be cheaper due to rip-off price Swiss Rail charges tourists for the same pass they sell much cheaper abroad.

logogm

PalenQ: good point about waiting in lines & hassle. I hadn't considered that. Will rethink this!
Thanks for your effort at computing this.

I'm also rethinking Wengen, maybe Grindelwald offers more accomodation choices.

I've got some more work to do it seems. Thanks again to all.

PalenQ

Grindelwald offers a plethora of all types of accommodations including really economy ones that Wengen doe not.

Wengen is for those seeking quiet and solitude and views from their balcony that are simply stunning - an older more sedate crowd.

Grindelwald appeals to the masses and is a much livelier place due to many hikers basing here and tons of Japanese tourists - billboards even in Japanese in town. Grindelwald also has superb views of glacier-girdled peaks. For budget travelers places in Grindelwald like the Nature Friends House - a rather austere place but popular with all-ages Swiss and German hikers offers accommodations at a fraction of regular hotels like in Wengen.

so the two towns are dramatically different IMO

swandav2000

Hi logogm,

You haven't said when you're travelling (or have you and I didn't see it).

In addition to PalenQ's comments on the differences between Wengen & Grindelwald is that Grindelwald is much more crowded. That's not normally a concern in June, Sep, or October. But in July or August, it might be a significant factor. I used to spend all my BO vacations in Grindelwald until the year that I went in August -- and was unprepared for the shock of seeing so many masses of tourists. Because it's the highest village that allows cars, that's where the huge tour busses go and off-load their passengers; you get literally gangs of folks clogging up the restaurant and store doorways and massing down the sidewalks. During that visit, I went to Wengen for lunch and was overjoyed to find the peace and serenity that I normally associate with an Alpine village. Since then, I always opt for the extra charm and ambiance that a car-free village offers.

So -- if you're going in August, do think about this!

Have fun!

s