Manisha

Hello Fodorites!

Its me again and another query about planning for my Greece trip with my group of 25! We will be in Crete for 5 nights. We will be staying in Skouloufia (18 km from Rethymno) and it is a big group of us (25 people - 15 grown ups, 10 kids). We will have 3 mini vans. Could you please look at my itinerary below and please provide suggestions, comments, etc. Thanks so much in advance, Fodorites! You rock!

Since there are so many of us, I have split us into groups. Also, since we will be travelling with kids, I've also tried to leave a little bit of flexibility in there for folks to come back to the house take a nap or chill out by the pool at the house or a nearby beach.

Tue, June 19th – Ferry Santorini to Crete. Get to Heraklion at 6:40 pm

• Group 1 - Head to the house
• Group 2 - Dinner in Heraklion and head to house later. Could try the Heraklion Museum (open till 8:00) but adjacent Knossos Palace closes at 5:00pm.

Wed, June 21st

• Group 1 (History): Explore Ancient Elefterna (10 minutes drive), Arkadi Monastery (11 minutes drive), head to Rethymno for lunch
• Group 2 (Nature): Explore Myli Gorge (27 minutes drive), head to Rethymno for lunch
• Both Groups : Lunch in Rethymno, Venetian Fortezza, Explore the town
• Group 1 : Heads back, chills out at the pool or at Geropotamos Beach (20 minute drive from home)
• Group 2 (Nature): Lake Kournas (28 minutes drive)

Thu, June 22nd - Big Day

• Chania (1 hour 13 minutes drive). Walk around the town, Explore Theotokopoulou Street, explore the harbor, lunch here
• Group 1: Heads back, chills out at the pool or at Skaleta Beach (16 minute drive from home)
• Group 2: Marathi Beach
• Group 3: Balos Beach (1 hour 15 minute drive) or Elafonissi Beach (1 hour 26 minute drive).

Fri, June 22nd

• 10 am - 2 pm Sailing
• Lunch after sailing in Rethymno port or on boat
• Group 1: Heads back, chills out at the pool or at Skaleta Beach (16 minute drive from home)
• Group 2: TBD

Sat, June 23rd

• Group 1 (Nature) - Imbros Gorge (1 hour 13 minute drive)
• Group 2 (Nature & History) - Melidoni Cave (26 minute drive) Knossos Palace and Heraklion Museum (1 hour drive) “Gods and Heroes at Heraklion Archaeological Museum - An educational programme for families with children over five years old.)
• Group 3 - TBD, winery perhaps

kja

Kudos for all your efforts and the options you’ve identified to allow different groups to pursue different interests!

Heraklion’s Archeological Museum is, IMO, among the finest archeological museums in Greece, and while small and potentally see-able in an hour (I spent about 2 hours), I’m not sure how any of you will be able to take advantage of it if your ferry doesn’t reach Heraklion until 6:40. And BTW, I trust that you realize that Knossos is not “adjacent” – it is some distance outside the city -- and it is vast. And BTW, driving into / out of Heraklion can be quite a challenge, and recent changes to the directionality of some roads (from two-way to one-way) adds to the challenges. Good luck!

On Wed., I’m not sure you are leaving enough time for the places either group would plan to visit. I could be wrong.

I’m not sure I understand your plan for Sat. Those who choose the Imbros Gorge need time to not only get there, but also hike it, find transportation back to their cars, and then drive to their next stop. Group 2 would seem to need several hours for Knossos AND the museum AND the drives to, between, and from. And am I correct in understanding that you are offering people the option of one or the other of these choices, but no option to do both? I’m sure you know your group, but I found these two things among the highlights of Crete and am VERY glad I didn’t have to choose between them!

As for driving times – I’m not sure what source you used, but I find some of the times a bit difficult to believe. Some of your trips will involve wide, multilane expressways, and so can be easily driven – but what about the time to get from wherever you are to those roads and getting from those roads to wherever you need to be and finding parking and getting fuel, etc? And some of the places you include on your plan are reached by narrow, twisting, turning roads where delays are not uncommon. I hope I’m wrong, but I think you are being overly optimistic about how much time a non-Greek driver in an unfamiliar van will take to safely negotiate some of those roads.

Just some thoughts that I hope will prove useful. Again, you’ve identified some wonderful options and I hope you can make it work.

Heimdall

Tue, June 19th: I wouldn't count on the ferry arriving at Heraklion on time. Champion Jet 2 has a long daily itinerary to Mykonos and back, leaving Heraklion in the morning and making eight stops before it even reaches Santorini for its last leg back to Heraklion. Delays inevitably add up with so many stops, because Sea Jets is optimistic on how long it takes to offload and load passengers on each island. Allow for Champion Jet 2 being an hour late arriving at Heraklion.

Manisha

Thanks so much @kja! Some answers/clarifications/further questions below:

"On Wed., I’m not sure you are leaving enough time for the places either group would plan to visit. I could be wrong." -- you are probably, right. I need to be a bit more realistic

"I’m not sure I understand your plan for Sat. Those who choose the Imbros Gorge need time to not only get there, but also hike it, find transportation back to their cars, and then drive to their next stop. Group 2 would seem to need several hours for Knossos AND the museum AND the drives to, between, and from. And am I correct in understanding that you are offering people the option of one or the other of these choices, but no option to do both? I’m sure you know your group, but I found these two things among the highlights of Crete and am VERY glad I didn’t have to choose between them!"
- So I am leaving all day Saturday for one group to do Imbros Gorge. They would have all day to drive down there from Skouloufia (1 hour 13 minutes), hike it (2-3 hours??), have lunch, then drive back. And another group would have all day to do Knossos and the Museum and the drive back and forth. Does that sound more reasonable? I see what you mean about these two being highlights and not wanting to choose between them. So maybe I'll move things around a bit. Maybe offer a choice between a beach and one of these or something....

As for driving distances, I was just using Google Maps. It sounds like perhaps this is not a realistic option. Do you have an idea for an alternate resource that I can use to estimate driving times?

Manisha

Oh wow, thanks @Heimdall! Will definitely not plan anything big for this night then. Maybe just plan for the ferry being 1 hour late and one group can just have a late dinner while the other group heads back to the house.

Heimdall

I don't know of a good resource specifically for Crete in estimating driving times, but my basic formula for estimating driving times on European secondary roads is: estimate how long you think it will take (e.g. from Google Maps) double it, and you will come close. Then add time for any stops you may make to admire scenery and take photos. That comes from many years living in Europe after having grown up in the US.

EDIT: you may be lucky and travel on a day when the ferry isn't very late. Sea Jets allows 10 minutes on each island to offload passengers and vehicles, then take aboard new passengers and vehicles, but that often isn't enough time. The more stops the ferry makes, the further behind schedule it runs.

Jean

When calculating driving times, keep in mind that organizing and loading that many people into multiple cars is not the same as two people jumping into a car and taking off. Everything you do (driving, eating, pit stops, photo ops, shopping for food/souvenirs, etc.) will take more time.

Have you booked the minivans/passenger vans? Make sure you're looking at 3 vehicles that will hold that many people PLUS all of the luggage. In descriptions, you'll often see a vehicle has seats for 7-9 passengers but cargo space for only 2 large + 2-3 small pieces of luggage. With a group that large, how many pieces of luggage (and what sizes) do you think you'll be dealing with?

janisj

>>They would have all day to drive down there from Skouloufia (1 hour 13 minutes)<<

>>As for driving distances, I was just using Google Maps. It sounds like perhaps this is not a realistic option. Do you have an idea for an alternate resource that I can use to estimate driving times?<<

I've never driven on Crete (I was a passenger) but when ever I see something like '13 minutes" - I just know they are taking google maps or some other on-line calculator as gospel. In all my driving in Europe NONE of them have been very accurate. Totally accurate for distances, a fantasy for drive times on anything other than major motorways -- and even then often overly optimistic. And when you are dealing with a large group/multiple vehicles/etc it is even more unrealistic.

On sightseeing/minor roads days I usually add between 25% and 50% to what google maps says and hope it doesn't take longer.

HappyTrvlr

All of our driving times in Greece were longer than predicted.

nanabee

We were in Greece a few years ago and drove great distances on the Peloponnese pennisula and the between cities on the Greek mainland.
Driving times are unpredictable at best. We drove from the southern part of the Peloponnese to Olympia and got stuck behind a large van driven extremely slowly by Germans - or at least a van with German plates They refused to pull over to allow cars to pass. What should have taken us a normal amount of time was extended by several hours! This happened often enough at other times where traffic delays made getting anywhere on time difficult.
The only place this wasn't a problem was when we took a ferry from the port of Athens to Hydra - a beautiful island that did not allow cars.

Manisha

Great, thanks for your help everybody! I will add at least 50% to our travel times when predicting. If folks have any other opinions on the travel itinerary I proposed (what to skip, what else to see instead), please do let me know!

Thanks Fodorites, I love this forum!

Manisha

Oh, also we are considering staying at this place in Porto? Does anybody know much about the location? https://www.floresvillage.com/en-gb

kja

Hmmm... I trust you realize that Porto is in Portugal, not Crete?

janisj

Did you mean to post this to your old thread about Greece? Or to your new thread about Portugal?? . . . or my guess is you were bitten by the 'Related Thread' SNAFU. Did you open the Portugal thread and the stooooopid system 'related' it to your earlier thread about Crete and you scrolled to the bottom and posted . . . on the wrong thread.

kja

@ janisj: Good catch!

@ Manisha: I'm sorry I didn't recognize the issue that janisj identified.

Manisha

@janisj - Yes good catch! I got bitten by the Related Thread. Argh! I guess you have seen this before? lol. Thanks for the catch. I will post to my question to my Portugal thread

kja

Actually, "Related Threads" is a new "feature" with LOTS of problems and objections. The confusion on this thread is the first identified example of this particular SNAFU.
https://www.fodors.com/community/for...1662952/page3/
Sorry it snagged you, but thanks for the inadvertent test of what would happen if...!

Heimdall

This new Fodor's format is a dog's breakfast! It now seems that recent changes have made it even worse.