Please comment on Paris itinerary
 

Many of you have been so helpful as I've put together this trip; please comment on the following tentative itinerary. We are a mom (50) and daughter (17) and will be there May 13-20, staying in a B&B on the border of Jardin des Plantes. Although I'd be happy just to enjoy the Eiffel Tower from the outside, DD really wants to go up inside, so we worked that in. We are on a tight budget, so plan to picnic a lot, especially for dinner. I would like to take her out to a nice dinner once, though, so if you have a suggestion for someplace near our lodging, I'd love to hear it! Thank you very much.

Wed.

Arrive, decompress
Get familiar with neighborhood
Café lunch out
Picnic dinner

Thurs.

Michael Osman:
Louvre (Denon wing)
D’Orsay Museum (Museum café for lunch in aft.) Picnic dinner
Boat tour? (Vedettes du Pont-Neuf)

Friday

Versailles
Marche Monge?

Saturday

Porte de Vanves flea market
Piano concert at Eglise St. Ephrem

Sunday

Notre Dame 10:00 mass
St. Chapelle
Ile de la Cité, Ile Ste. Louis

Monday

Eiffel (go up)
Rodin Museum

Tuesday

Departure

This looks like a nice, relaxing itinerary to me. Your daughter is very lucky!

Hi,

Sounds like a great itinerary. A couple of suggestions.

The Rodin museum is closed Mondays so you'll need to switch to another day (Sunday afternoon perhaps).

You might want to spend the entire day at Versailles and not go to the market. There's a lot to see there and you pay one admission for the entire day.

If you're not too tired on your arrival day (Wednesday) consider the Notre Dame free tour (1.5 hours) at 2:00 - it's very good.

Here's a link for a 2Euro discount (per person) on the Vedettes du Pont Neuf.

http://www.vedettesdupontneuf.com/

Thanks so much! I should have remembered that many museums are closed Mondays. And the Notre Dame tour sounds great. Do I need reservations, or can we just show up if we're up for it? I'll rearrange things a bit, then post again.

Lori

I just got back from a week in Paris with my daughter. We're both a little older than you two, but here's what we liked, and my suggestions. The Porte de Vanves flea market was disappointing, and I am a big flea market fan. Prices were high, and there wasn't much of interest. Not nearly as good as the Chelsea Market in NYC. Instead of going there, I'd recommend Pere Lachaisse cemetery. It was interesting, and very addictive. We were there for hours trying to find all the graves of famous people--and taking pictures of them. Also a good history/cultural lesson for both of us. We walked up the Arc de Triomphe instead of going up the Eiffel Tower. We've heard the views from there are actually better, and the walk isn't as time consuming. We also loved the Fat Tire Bike Tour at night. It includes a Bateau Mouche ride on the Seine, too. I'm not sure about the price, but I'd definitely recommend that. My daughter's favorite restaurant--and I liked it, too--was Chez L'Ami Jean. The cost for two people was $149.29 (I've got my Visa bill right here), but that included a bottle of house wine. It was lively and crowded and fun. You need reservations. Their rice pudding was the best thing we had to eat the entire time we were in Paris.

Hi Lori,

You just show up for the Notre Dame tour; they have a couple of guides so the groups are not too large. The meeting point is just inside the center door but check for a notice at the info booth (to the right as you enter the cathedral). The tour is only given on Wed (2:00), Thurs (2:00), and Sat (2:30).

A few suggestions...
Versailles: It is definitely an all day trip. Change it to Saturday and enjoy the fountains running. IMO, the fountains are the best part of Versailles. They only run on Saturdays and Sundays from April to September. Look into a Forfait Loisir which includes entrance fees to all major exhibits, round trip RER tickets, and an audio guide.

If you really want to go to a flea market, check out Marche aux Puce in the 18e. It only runs Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Suppose to be big and great.
Here's the link...

http://www.les-puces.com


Here's what I'd do:
Friday: Eiffel and Rodin

Saturday: Versailles

Monday: Marche aux puces. Monday afternoon figure out how to ship all your wonderful purchases! :)

It is a very relaxing schedule, so I think it's a good idea as you will always be able to fit things in if you change your mind.

Personally, I would eat in real places (cafes or restaurants, etc) more than all the picnicking you talk about for dinner. I am not sure what you mean about picnicking (eating outside in a park?), but you can probably eat almost as cheaply by just finding a cheap cafe or restaurant than buying a lot of separate items. I guess it depends what you are planning to buy to do that, I just think you can find a lot of reasonably priced places to eat in Paris, and it will be more enjoyable as a way to experience Paris (and you can linger a lot when eating and people-watch, etc.).

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by that, you have your own ideas on that and I'm sure it's fine. Maybe if you are in a B&B you have some kitchen or place to dine in it, rather than being on a park bench at night?

as for Friday, I presume you mean the roving market at Place Monge. It really isn't that feasible as it closes around 2 pm, if you are going to Versailles that day. Rue Mouffetard is just a step away and plenty of fun for walking up and down, browsing and eating cheaply, if you want.

I also would not spend my time at Vanves in a short trip like that -- I am definitely not a flea market fan, however. But it really was a waste of time, to me, I was sorry I even went there. at least the big one (up north at Clignancourt) is something you hear about and more of an experience, as long as you are planning that for a good part of the day.

Thanks very much to all of you for your great suggestions. I've got some tweaking to do...

Regarding the picnic dinners, we are on a tight budget, and I've heard that lunch in a cafe is cheaper than dinner, so I was thinking we could eat lunch out, and buy bread, cheese and pate and eat an early dinner in a park now and then. I'll rethink that, too.

oh, so you were planning to eat in a park. It is true that meals in general are cheaper at lunch, so that's not too bad an idea. But buying pate isn't cheap (bread is, though).

Here's a tip on one cheap restaurant I know over in your area just off rue Mouffetard
http://www.lepotdeterre.com/

They have a prix fixe at dinner for only 10-16 euro that includes several courses.

Not sure what your food budget is but last summer I budgeted US$50 per day which included all meals, drinks and snacks. Came out to about 35Euros/day (exchange rate was a little better last summer).

I had no problem staying within that budget. You'll be surprised how cheap you can eat breakfast just picking up a bottle of water and a pastry.

fischerl,
What sort of busget did you have planned for meals? Maybe we can see if we can make suggestions to match.

I usually have a small breakfast at a local cafe (croissant, OJ, coffee), a take lunch on some days from sandwich place (sandwich, drink, sweet), an occasional sit down lunch off of a prix-fixe menu, and a sit-down dinner. My "splurge" is usually ar dinner.

I think the picnic idea is lovely and you will find yourself surrounded by other people doing the same thing. Locals and travellers alike. Don't forget that it won't get dark until around 10pm, so it's not as though you will be wandering around in the dark. We will be in Paris in June in an apartment in the 5th and we plan on having picnics too.

This will sound really lame, but I don't actually have a food budget (yet). I have about $1000 for 6 days for everything (museums, transportation, food, tours, etc.) Lodging is already paid for. And breakfast is included with our B&B lodging.

Christina, thanks for the restaurant tip. We do want to do at least one dinner out if possible.

Here's an updated itinerary. We are not Catholic, but we are reverent (hope that makes sense!). We thought attending mass at Notre Dame, although probably mostly tourists, might be a worshipful experience. I've incorporated many of your suggestions (thank you for all the tips!.

I so hoped to be able to take my daughter, a dancer, to a ballet at Opera Garnier, but apparently May 13-20 is the ballet company's week off!

So how about this?:

Wednesday
Arrive (at B&B in 5e around 11:00)
Decompress, get familiar with neighborhood
Notre Dame free tour 2:00?
Picnic dinner: Rue Mouffetard

Thursday
Michael Osman: Louvre
D’Orsay Museum (Museum café for lunch in aft.)
Picnic dinner

Friday
Eiffel (go up)
Rodin Museum
Fat Tire Bike Tour 7p.m.

Saturday
Versailles
Piano concert at Eglise St. Ephrem 7p.m.

Sunday
Notre Dame mass 10:00?
St. Chapelle, Ile de la Cité, Ile Ste. Louis

Monday
Marche aux Puce (flea market) in the 18e

Tuesday
Departure

Re picnics in Paris: It's been 10 years since I was in Paris, but I remember being surprised that at least in some parks (the Tuileries comes to mind) you weren't allowed on the grass. It seemed like there were fewer places than I'd have expected to sit and eat a picnic, and that the locals would eat a sandwich on the go. Has this changed and/or did I make that up? (I live in DC, so I am used to being able to hang out on the Mall (and play frisbee and softball and do intepretive dance . . .), so maybe my expectations were different from other people's.)

I attended Mass at Notre Dame and from what I could tell...mostly locals ...as in actually participating in the worship service.

When we went, we were touring around when Mass started (we didn't actually plan to be there for Mass) so we joined in.

The tourists were mostly walking around the outer corridor inside the buildingwatching the Mass.

It is a great experience - amazing music.

Depending how you feel on that first night, consider taking the boat ride. It's relaxing and gives you some first glimpes of what is to come.

I still think that after spending the day at Versailles, you will probably be too exhausted to do anything else. Versailles is huge!

I just thought I'd add something about attending or visiting a church during mass.

My friend and I went to Sacre Coeur during a service. There were about a dozen nuns singing, and something just came over me and I started to cry. I felt so weird and confused, so I walked away from my friend so she wouldn't see me and wonder what was up. So as we were leaving, she looks at me and says " OMG, the weirdest thing just happened when we were in there!" Surprised, I said "really, what?" I kid you not, she said that something overcame her and she started crying and I then said "OMG, me too!" True story!

Oh, I do love Paris!

I like this. It's a fairly laid-back schedule that will allow for all those moments when your eye just gets pulled to something you didn't expect and you end up having an adventure.

I'll just add that the grounds of the Musee Rodin are a great place to have a picnic. There's a little outdoor cafe there, but there are also benches, so you don't have to worry about whether you can sit on the grass or not.

And I'm pretty sure the Champs de Mars is available for grass-sitting - it's the closest thing to the Mall in DC.

Enjoy your trip.

So happy to see that you included St. Chapelle-- go during the time of day that gives you the most sunlight as the stained glass is amazing!

Truly enjoyed D'Orsay.

Have a great trip!

Hey madtownz, I was going to write about the same experience. On Fridays there is a 3pm mass at Sacre Couer. I had the same experience as you, it was so beautiful....

Remember that the Ste. Chapelle is best seen on a sunny day. The stained glass glows. Be ready to exchange one day for another depending on the weather. Museums for bad weather, outside stuff for good, if possible.

Fischerl..Love your itinerary. On our first trip to Paris, my mother and I ate pretty much the way you are planning. Lunches in cafes and dinner was in the room or walking along. We picked up a roasted chicken or sandwiches, bread, cheese and meats at the local places, sometimes crepes...we saved a lot of money doing this. We skipped the expensive dinners so we could do some fun stuff like the Fat Tire Bike Tours. You are going to love that. Also, in case you decide to do the boat ride, if you purchase on the internet before you go it will cost you 7E instead of 11E. We have done this for our upcoming trip in two weeks. You can use them any time. Here is the link:

http://www.vedettesdupontneuf.com/billet_en.php

And for what it's worth, no way would my mom go up the Eiffel, so hurrah for you for planning that for your daughter. :)

Enjoy!

fischerl, I think my post makes it clear, but just in case--the Fat Tire night bike tour includes in the price an hour long boat tour of the Seine. I wouldn't want you to buy tickets on line and then find you've paid for two basically-the- same tours. We loved the boat tour, but wouldn't have wanted to do two!

I second ( or third)the Fat Tire Bike Tour, we did the night one and loved it.

AS for picnics, they are very popular with tourists and locals alike,, in the summer on the pedestrian bridge( forget the dang name, but you will see it) that goes over the Seine it is COVERED with people who are having picnic, many of them locals.. seriously , picnics are fun and a great way to eat too.
I think you nicer lunches and picnics for dinners is a great idea,, and beware of the " 3 courses for 10 euros" tourist traps on Rue Mouffetard,, the food is not good.
A nice roast chicken and some good bread,,

Wow--I am so delighted with your encouraging responses; thanks again so very much. We'll try to picnic at the Rodin! (I appreciate all the food tips). And that's a great idea about adjusting our plans to fit the weather. I did notice on the Fat Tire website that the night tour includes a boat ride, so I removed the other "cruise" from the original plan.

And namaka, not to worry, if we are too wiped out we will skip the concert! But we love great music...I am so looking forward to this, and I can't thank you guys enough for taking the time and trouble to help make this a wonderful trip.

Sorry, I totally missed the Fat Tire and night cruise connection.

The flea market at Clignancourt is not in the 18th arrondissement; it is just outside the city in the suburb of St. Ouen. To get there you take the metro to Porte de Clignancourt, then walk past the highway overpass and turn left on rue des Rosiers. There are people selling stuff outdoors on the way there before you get to the highway, but that is clothing and everyday junk. The real flea market is beyond.

I would reconsider going Monday, however. I have been there on a Monday and it was much less lively than on Saturday or Sunday. Many of the stalls were closed. Many were open, though, so if it is the only time you can go, then so be it.

Hi
re newletter on travel by rail in Ireland, I live in Tullamore. My local station also has machines to purchase tickets (cash or cc).
Standard practice here is to put € euro sign before the amount, (like you do with $) so €45.18, although in some other euro countries (eg France) they do have it the way you do on the newsletter.

16:44 10/04/2008 forum:

I'm watching this conversation as my wife & I plan a day in Paris in June, passing through from London to the south by train. We had planned to do the sewer tour (seriously!) but it's closed Friday, so won't suit us,

http://www.statesman.com/life/conten...stories/travel

travel/03/16/0316sewers.html

Sorry, it didn't like the long URL. Please join the two together at /travel/ If there's a " /after travel/ remove it, it shouldn't be there (I keep removing it but when go to "previesw my post" it reappears!

it's a great description on the sewer tour


We might try the catacombs instead. I hope the weather suits you, May can sometimes be cold & wet in Paris. Last year we also spent a day there & found a decent small Greek restaurant in rue Mouffetard, which seems to be a road to suit every kind of taste & pocket. Run by friendly husband & wife team in their 60s. I paid about €15 each (wine extra). Hard to beat that. In 1978 we spent a week in Paris on the cheap & loved it. Usually bought bread & cheese & occasionally alcohol & picnicked every day. Got a week's metro + bus ticket (this may be awkward for you fischerl as your week starts on a Tuesday). Mobilis cards are excellent value if you plan to use the metro more than 5 times a day, but decide which zones you need, there are many websites about this, just type in mobilis paris visite to a search engine to get a flavour of the discussions.

By the way, fischerl, I live not too far from Kildare, which I believe is your favourite part of Ireland...

Nikki makes a good point about the flea market on Monday being sparse.

So, I checked on Mass schedules at Notre Dame. According to Paristriptips.com, there are masses weekdays at 8,9,and 12. I went to the actual Notre Dame site but my French isn't that good. Maybe someone else can confirm the Mass times.

So... Sunday go to Marche aux Puces and Monday do mass at Notre Dame and see Ste Chapelle.

I also checked the Les Fetes de Versailles and unfortunately, the ballet performances there don't start until July.

So sorry something got mixed up in my post above, please ignore the first bit!!. I'll try the url for the sewer tour again, my "preview my reply" didn't like it but it came out better in the actual post.

http://www.statesman.com/life/conten...316sewers.html

Bonjour! I lived in Paris for four glorious years and my son was born there. So, let me throw in my two cents, er centimes! The Eiffel Tower is most beautiful at night and the view of the illuminated city is stupendous. It is open very late. Consider visiting it then. Palais Garnier is my single favourite site in all of Paris. You can tour for a small fee, regardless of whether there will be ballets, or schooling in session. Don't miss it! Though you can visit a Traiteur (think Deli) or a Boucherie (think butcher shop with whole roasted chickens ready to eat!) and have a lovely picnic, a more French experience would be to grab a baguette sandwiche at lunchtime first of all. Just find the longest line at a Boulangerie that you can find! It will move amazingly quickly and for a just a couple of euros you will get delicious choices like roast chicken, tuna, ham and cheese, camembert, etc. This is the way in Paris to truly eat a French lunch. Dinners can be had for a reasonable sum so long as you select a bistro dining experience. You will find many wonderful prix fixe menus available to you that even include a picher of wine. Versailles is spectacular: go all day for sure, forget the flea market, and go on the weekend to see the fountains and don't miss the opera house part of the tour. Take an hour to rent a bike in the gardens and just enjoy. Take the small train around the gardens if you fancy a rest for you legs. There are many boats that give you the Seine experience. Again, I cannot stress how beautiful Paris is at night. Take the Bateau Mouches at night. Very cheap and goes very late. Treat yourself to the best hot chocolate in the world at Angelina's on Rue du Rivoli...but don't eat there. Expensive. It is a beautiful Salon du Tea. If you wish to write me privately, I will provide you with any number of restaurant suggestions. I would recommend one Belle Epoque restaurant dining experience. It is quintessentially French to sit in one of these old, beautiful establishments and sip a kir...even if you don't order a start, main meal, cheese, dessert and the most expensive wine and after dinner cognacs! Bon Voyage!

Cathies reply made me recall that right outside of Sacre Couer there is a small area where artists sell their paintings...would be a fun stop if you are in that area!

I bought two small water colours from one of the artists at Mont Martre and I adore them. I had them professionally framed when we got home and they are hanging in my dining room - it's a wonderful way to hold on to the memory of the holiday. The story behind the purchase is sweet. When we told my husband's parents, who have never been well-off, that we were going on this trip (our first to Europe) they started to save up, and just before we left presented us with a few hundred Australian dollars to buy ourselves something. I think that I am very lucky to have them both in my life.

On a more practical note, if your budget runs to this (about €25), consider an evening concert at St Chapelle. You will be able to enjoy the beauty of the stained glass and listen to the concert at the same time. I think it should be light by then well into the evening. It is one of my favourite memories of our trip. We had a quick dinner in our apartment, and then stopped for crepes on the walk back home after the concert.

St Cirq is right as always, the gardens at Musee Rodin should not be missed! And yes, there are people all over the grass on the Champ de Mars enjoying picnics.

Thanks again for all the help--I really appreciate it. I'll try to post a trip report when we return.

Ricardo, yes, I loved Kildare, because that's where we watched the jockeys exercising the race horses at dawn--a beautiful site! I long to go back someday...

You should really visit Sacre Ceur...it's one of the most beautiful place in Paris.

c14udie,, really you think so??? I have never heard anyone call it one of the most beautiful places.I personally think it is most beautiful from a distance.

I don't think the actual building is anything special, but the area around Sacré Coeur is very popular, & rightly so. Great views over the city, & the square where the painters & sketchers work away. I wonder if the funiculaire is fixed, it wasn't working May 2007. It's a good walk up the hill.

I only have one suggestion. Henri IV, 13, Place du Pont Neuf. This was THE BEST experience we had in Paris. It's a tiny (and, I found out after the fact, famous) wine bar at the extreme west (down-stream) end of the Ile de la Cité. It's on street of which Pont Neuf is a part (hence the address). They have THE BEST CHEESE I'VE EVER EATEN. Get the cheese plate for one (more than enough for 2 (or 3 small) people. And a glass of the house wine. We went three times. I would have lived there if Deb had let me.

Oh...and if it's a clear, sunny day....take a camera for Sainte Chappell. You will never be the same again.

Nice Itinerary---- here's a more nightlife/cultural suggestion to potentially add:

For a great night out in Paris, sip a kir royal at Café de la Paix before catching a performance at the Opera Garnier. Afterwards, depending on your budget, enjoy an oyster platter at Le Grand Café, or splurge a few steps away at Gerard Depardieu’s resto [La Fontaine Gaillon] just as the good crowd is arriving.

Bon voyage!