Susannah

We are planning a trip in July to Paris and London. I've been reading this board religiously for months and have read many guide books in planning this trip. It's probably a once-in-a-lifetime trip for us as a family due to our budget and the kids growing up so quickly. My husband and I and 15 yr old daughter and 13 year old son will be traveling. The kids have never been out of the US, none of us have been to Paris. My husband is very familiar with London (lived there for 2 years in high school)but I have only been there once. We all love music, the outdoors (hiking, walking), and adventures. Not much into fancy meals or shopping, although we will obviously pick up some souveniers along the way. I've tried to plan for a balance of hitting the must-sees to give the kids a taste to want to come back as adults, as well as hit important historical settings and allow for plenty of fun (this is a vacation!). We're flying on free FF tickets and our London hotel (Royal Garden in Kensington)is using points - trying to stretch to get the most out of our money. Here are the current plans:<BR>Day 1 (Thurs)<BR>Arrive in Paris 11:30. Head to Hotel Muguet (I hope it lives up to its' many great reviews!). Wander around a bit to orient ourselves. Eiffel Tower<BR>Day 2 (Fri)<BR>Louvre in am, Notre Dame in afternoon<BR>Dusk river cruise on Vedettes du Pont Neuf<BR>Day 3 (Sat)<BR>Giverny (a must for my daughter!), Sacre Couer/Monmarte<BR>Day 4 (Sun)<BR>Musee' D'Orsay, Luxembourg Gardens<BR>Day 5 (Mon)<BR>Eurostar to London in early morning<BR>Astral Tour of Avebury and Stonehenge Inner Access tour (a must for my son!)<BR>Day 6 (Tues)<BR>London Tourist Day<BR>Open top bus tour, St, Martin-in-the-Fields for brass runbbing (sentimental stop here - I want the kids to do a brass rubbing to hang in the living room next to the one my husband did in high school!), London Eye, Hamley's, Theatre at night<BR>Day 7 (Wed)<BR>Buckingham Palace, Changing of the Horse Guard, Westminster Abbey, Evensong @ Westminster Abbey, possible theater at night<BR>Day 8 (Thurs)<BR>Tower of London (first thing for Crown Jewels, followed by Beefeater tour), Greenwich in afternoon, Ceremony of the Keys at night (haven't received tickets yet, though)<BR>Day 9 (Fri)<BR>Kensington Palace in am, Windsor Castle in pm, possible theater at night<BR>Day 10 (Sat)<BR>Pick up rental car, drive to Leed's Castle<BR>Spend night at B&B near Dover<BR>Day 11 (Sun)<BR>Dover Castle<BR>Drive back to spend night at B&B near Gatwick<BR>Day 12 (Mon)<BR>Leave to head "Back Home Again in Indiana"<BR><BR>Please let me know your thought on this plan. I don't want to micro-manage every detail, but I do want to make sure we have a prioritized idea of what all we want to do. Day 4 was originally Verseilles, but I think we're going to drop that - let everyone see it on some other trip - and allow more time for experiencing Paris leisurely. I think the London part of the trip seems a little packed, but there's too much to see! If we have time, I'd also like to do a London Walks tour of the British Museum. I've also tried to figure out about fitting in Warwick Castle based on all the positive posts I've read. What do the experts think of our plans? The kids have been heavily involved in the planning, by the way, and we're all very excited about the trip!

Thyra

Well, your itinerary looks good but FULL, you can't forget "down" time. I would opt not to be too stingent in your holding to activities, even on vacation, people need a day to just "be" and soak up the scenery. Also, have you run these activities by your kids and spouse.. be sure that the whole family is behind you. <BR>The one day that looks at bit much is Louve int the AM Notre Dame in the afternoon... the Louvre is huge, I mean REALLY huge,,, intimidating.. frankly with the crowds and the vast collection, you could maybe do a room and a half at the Louvre in the morning. <BR>Also, from your itinerary it looks as though you will go on the Eurostar to London, then travel out of London to Avebury. That's a bit much. You may want to do London orientation the first day, give yourself a night in London, then plan a day trip to Avebury your second day. <BR>Otherwise, your itinerary looks packed, but good, and I applaud you for making travel outside of the US a priority for you and your family. Too few US kids go right into college never having scene the outside world. Bon Voyage.

sarah

Hi, Susannah, Looks like you've got quite a great trip planned and that you've really done your homework! I personally think your itinerary is not too full or too sparse--it looks great! I do agree with Thyra that you may want to postpone the tour of Avebury to a day other than the day you arrive in London--just get settled in London, maybe just switching day 5 with day 6. But with all due respect I disagree that the Louvre in the am and Notre Dame in the afternoon is too much. The Louvre is huge, no doubt about it, but I'm sure you already know you're not going to see all of it and with teens in tow you definitely won't see as much as you'd want to (no matter how into art they are). I assume you've already got a good grasp on just how much they can take in on this trip. So for that day I think you'll have enough time to see the Louvre biggies and then make a tour of Notre Dame. I really don't see a problem here. And really I think your itinerary looks excellent and I've done extensive travel in both cities. I agree with Thyra that you need to make sure you plan for down time (ie relax in the Tuileries Gardens outside the Louvre after your Louvre visit). And also be prepared to make itinerary changes and even cut things out as needed. But I think you may surprise yourself with just how much you can see--you may even have a some days where you have extra time. It totally depends on your travel style. Have a great trip!

Joanne

Susannah, I spent 3 weeks in the London area with my 15 yo daughter and 13 yo son last summer, flew on FF miles, and your itinerary includes many of our highlights. I'm getting flashbacks! <BR><BR>Many of the places you intend to see are on the London Pass, so you might be one of those rare visitors for whom it's a good buy, you ought to price it out. (Just the London Pass itself, not the version with the transport card.) Not only Kensington, Tower, Windsor, Westminster, brass rubbing, etc., but also you could get a free Catamaran Cruiser ride from the Tower to Greenwich, a couple of the sights in Greenwich (my son enjoyed the Cutty Sark, even after he found out it wasn't "Cutty's Ark") and a free Teddy (very nice, BTW) if you spend 5 pounds at Hamley's.<BR><BR>Are you sure Buckingham Palace is open in July? I thought it was just August-Sept.<BR><BR>At Westminster Abbey, do sign up for a verger's tour if possible. We got SO much more out of our visit because of it! Our guide was the equal of the Beefeaters at the Tower in terms of expertise, presentation, and wit.<BR><BR>The Astral tour on the first day in England would probably not be too much -- its starting time is adjusted so you get to Stonehenge at dusk, so in July that will be a rather late start. Half of the day is spent riding in their little bus, just getting from one place to another and having things like crop circles pointed out to you. It's actually a much more relaxing day than the others you've planned for London, which involve a lot of walking around (in museums and castles). Bring your own water and lunch, our sandwiches were the envy of the whole group.<BR><BR>Haven't been to Dover or Leeds, but my kids certainly emjoyed Warwick. It has a festival that goes on all summer with knights in armor riding around, craftsmen, storytellers, etc., picnics on the grounds, peacocks and rose garden -- very participatory and hands-on, rather than museum-y, the kids loved it.<BR><BR>Feel free to e-mail if you want details, but please put "Fodors" in the subject line, I get a lot of junk that I just delete!

janis

Susannah - I usually jump all over people for trying to squeeze in impossible amouts of things. But you have done a good job and will have a great time. You of course know that some of your plans will change as you go along.<BR><BR>A gew minor suggestions - as the others said - don't try an out of town trip on your first day in London. The Eurostar only take 3+hours and you gain a time zone but you have the hassle of getting to Gare du Nord, checking in, the rtrain ride and then getting to your hotel from waterloo. Get used to London first - even if it is only a sightseeing bus or leisurely walks - it would be better than taking a 10+ hour trip to Avebury/Stonehenge.<BR><BR>B'ham Palace is not open for tours in July and you can "see" the outside a LOT better when the guard changing crowds are gone. the Changing of the Guard takes a huge time investment for the return. years ago it was fun - but now you must be there 90 min to 2 hours early to get a position where you can see anything. So consider dropping the guard change - you could always stop by Horse Guards instead.<BR><BR>My final suggestion may get a lot of static from folks - but here it is. Skip Leeds Castle. Warwick is better -- but it won't be convenient for you since you are leaving from LGW. So Kent is a good idea - but Leeds has assumed a cult status on this board. Everyone says go to Leeds. Leeds is very pretty - but there are probably SIX castles in Kent that are just as pretty and with more history.<BR><BR>If you are going to Dover consider these instead: Bodium, Scotney, Walmer, Deal, Hever, Pennshurst Place.<BR><BR>Bodium has a moat like Leeds and is near Scotney which is lovely and has prettier gardens than Leeds.<BR><BR>Walmer (gorgeous gardens - better than leeds and an interesting house) and Deal (fascinating fortification on the Cahnnel) are near Dover<BR><BR>Hever (Anne Boleyn's family Home) is beautiful and Pennshurst (original Medieval manor) are convenient to LGW.

Susannah

Thank you for the replies so far, there's lots of good info. In planning this trip, each of the kids did a fair amount of research and was responsible for selecting one excursion and doing all the planning. My son became hooked on Avebury/Stonehenge and found out about the Inner Access tour where you can go right up to the stones after hours. Unfortunately, this tour only happens on Mondays while we are there, so we have to do it that first day in London. I would have preferred to do "overview" sightseeing the first day in London and do Stonhenge later in the week, but we don't have that possibility.<BR>Thanks for the info on Buckingham Palace - we will just look at the outside and then catch the Horse Guard at Whitehall.<BR>I appreciate the comments about "down time", I do not want to overschedule things and know that we will need to be flexible with our plans as we see other things we want to do. One of my fondest memories from my only other visit to London is just relaxing in a really nice white chair at one of the parks (I think it was Hyde Park) and watching the people go by. It was lovely.<BR>I'd be interested in others' comments on Warwick vs Leeds vs Dover Castle.<BR>Thanks for the comments, it's very helpful!

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kelly

You're planning to go to many of my favorite places. I think your kids will really enjoy the trip. Even tho you're not shoppers, don't miss a stop at Harrods. It's unbelievable.

c

I would suggest after Notre Dame in the afternoon, a short stroll across the foot bridge to Ille St Louis and have an ice cream from Berthillon.There are mimes on the bridge that are very entertaining, the view of Notre Dame from Ille St Louis is amazing, and the ice cream is unforgettable have a great time~Warning=you will be infecting those children with the Travel bug! if they are like mine, that one trip was all it took, and they are always off somewhere~

Susannah

Topping in hopes of more suggestions

Roxanne Bishop

My daughter is going to school in Paris and we had the pleasure of going in December. We also did the eurostar to London. I loved London as well. The only thing I see missing is The ferris wheel on the Thames by Big Ben in London. We went up on a clear night and it was beautiful. I thought the cost was very reasonable. The tube is a very efficient and inexpensive way to see the sights in London and the metro in Paris. They take you where you want to go. We made the mistake of paying for a 24 hour hop on and hop off bus tour. We ended up waiting on buses far too long. When we decided to take the tube, we got a map, paid for a day's pass for each of the four of us and explored far more quickly and with more comfort. The Picasso Museum in Paris was wonderful and in a beautiful area. I agree, the louve is far to huge to see and overrated. I opted for one section with the Mona Lisa and that was enough for me. Some of the smaller museums are better and more worth your time and money. Take the train to Versais. It is wonderful and very educational and beautiful. The history is amazing. Enjoy the cafe latte for me. I miss it.

Susannah

Thanks for the replies. I know that only spending the morning at the Louvre won't give us enough time to see everything, but we're planning to just hit the highlights. None of us have the stamina to spend more than a half day in a musem (it's amazing how the same kids who think nothing of a 20 mile bike ride before lunch can become exhausted standing around in a museum). <BR><BR>One other question, would it be possible to do both Leeds Castle and Dover Castle in one day? That could free up a day to see Warwick Castle. I'm not sure it's a good idea, and it's making the itinerary a little castle-heavy, but I'm having difficulty with all the choices! <BR><BR>Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Joanne

Susannah, my kids also suffer from instant-museum-fatigue. I find that it helps to tell them before we even enter that either (1) they have complete power, and we will leave as soon as they indicate that they are tired of the place or (2) they have no power at all, we'll leave at a specific time or when I'm good and ready no matter what they do. <BR><BR>Either strategy automatically eliminates all that ugly begging and whining (along with Mom's ugly responses to them). And, surprisingly, knowing that they CAN leave whenever they want to sometimes makes them willing to stay longer!