meeks

My fiance and I will be going to Italy & France for our honeymoon. We are planning to spend around 16 days in Italy with the remaining in Paris. We will be using our airline miles so it doesn't matter which airport we fly into, but we would need to fly back out of it. (so no open jaw) I have done some research on the forums and made a preliminary itinerary. Please let me know if it's the right amount of time to spend in each location. I'm also not sure if I ordered them correctly based on trains.

5 days: Rome (Early morning train via La Spezia)
3 days: Cinque Tierre (Early morning train to Florence w/stop in Pisa)
4 days: Florence – San Gimignano ,Siena, Lucca, Firenze, Tuscany (Early morning train to Venice)
2 days: Venice (Evening flight back to Rome)
1 days: Rome
5 days: Paris

Do you think 4 days in Florence is too much? There seems to be a lot of day trips that's why I thought 4 days might be good.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks for your help.

suze

I don't understand the 1 day in Rome in the middle, between Venice and Paris.

If you have to arrive and depart Rome, why wouldn't you continue on directly from Venice to Paris, then back to Rome at the end for your flight home?

meeks

We have a free layover in Paris so we have to be in Paris either before or after Italy.

zeppole

If it doesn't matter which airport you fly into, fly in to Venezia. Make your next stop Firenze. From there, move on to Rome, then go to Cinque Terre for relaxation, then go back to Venezia, and from there fly to Paris.

You should think hard about what kind of experience you want in Tuscany, especially after your wedding, and depending on what time of year it is. Be selective about how many and which day trips you do. Tuscany can have extremes of weather, and it is quite a different experience to be inside walled cities, or busy, touristy cities, or out in the countryside.

meeks

Do you think we should skip Venice? I want to see as much as I can but also don't want to tire ourselves out. I think a good balance of being on the go and some relaxation in between would be good.

As for Tuscany, I put it on the list just so i wouldn't forget about it. But not necessary that we go.

We are thinking about going in September but nothing has been booked yet.

bobthenavigator

Nice trip---Sep would be good---but why Rome? You can fly direct Venice to Paris.

zeppole

September is a lovely time to be in Italy, pretty much all month long.

It's always good to pick only a FEW destinations in Italy, because every place you go is filled with overwhelming sites, and so many things to see, and transportation BETWEEN places is not always speedy or enjoayble -- so it all argues for enjoying the gems and savoring the sweet life in the Italian destinations you'd most enjoy -- but it's very hard to tell you what to take out of your itinerary without knowing more about your interests and pleasures.

Do you go to museums, churches and architecture tours where you live? Is this something you and your fiancee both enjoy?

Do you dislike crowds of tourists, or are you OK with it because you love to see famous sites?

Will you be sorry if you go all the way to Italy and don't see the things everybody talks about?

Is seeing some religious places important to you, or do you recoil from pilgrims and religious ceremony?

Would rather look at art or drink wine and eat pasta?

Do you prefer the beach to farmland?

Would you like to be in places where there are no cars, or do you enjoy lively places?

Finally, it's hard to plan both a big wedding AND a complicated trip to Italy. If you don't know now what you want to see in Venice, Florence or Rome, but you have to focus on wedding planning between now and then, you might end up parachuting into Italy and feel lost and end up wasting a lot of time because you really don't know where to begin.

If you are now in the process of planning a big wedding, It might be better to make your honeymoon just one or two beautiful, fascinating places, and relax, and don't worry about sightseeing.

If you are planning a simple wedding and don't want to come all the way to Italy to just laze around and eat, you've got lots of time to read up and ask questions about Venice or Tuscany, and figure out whether you think you'd enjoy these places or find them irritating and less enjoyable than either the sea or Roma.

lovisa

I don't know what airline you are using, but normally open jaws are permitted on frequent flyer tickets. I know on United, you can have either an open jaw or a stopover, but not both.

A lot of Frequent Flyer tickets get snapped up as soon as they become available 330 or 331 days out, so if you are committed to FF tickets, perhaps the availability of tickets might dictate your itinerary to some degree.

Both Paris, and anywhere in Italy are extremely popular frequent flyer destinations.

gruezi

I think zeppole makes some very good points.

I remember being really tired after our wedding not to mention jetlag. We spent an entire day in Athens sleeping.

September is a beautiful time on the Amalfi Coast. It is romantic and relaxing yet there are things to do if you want to tool around.

Rome, Florence and Venice in September will be crowded. And it does require some planning and organization to really enjoy these cities. You can't sleep in and at noon decide to hit the Vatican or the Uffizi. So, flexibility is an issue there where it might not be outside the cities.

gruezi

zeppole

You make some good points too, gruezi, but I'm going to have to quibble with some:

Rome, Firenze and Venezia won't be anymore crowded than the Amalfi coast. And one can't sleep in until noon on the Amalfi and decide you want to "hit" Pompeii. Or Capri. One of the difficulties of parking oneself in remote places like the Amalfi -- they've retained their old world charm because they're too hard to get to and it's not always easy t is to get to other places if one gets bored -- and even when you finally get to other nearby places, very few have anything to compare with the great historic and artistic sights elsewhere.

Also, while it's true you can't sleep in until noon and hit the Uffizi, which requires a reservation, you can sleep in until noon and "hit" the Museo San Marco, or enjoy the Boboli Gardens, or visit Fiesole in 20 minutes and no end of things.

It's totally subjective, but I find the hyper-touristed Amalfi less romantic and relaxing than say, Parma, and have never found anything to do along the coastal "view" towns other than gaze at the sea. It's a view worth gazing at endlessly, but if part of one's dreams of a visit to Italy include seeing some its great cultural treasures, there are places with a greater densiity and cities and towns that are breathtaking in terms of artistic achievement.

Hopefully meeks will come back and tell us whether the newlyweds want to relax or sightsee or both.

meeks

Thank you for all your comments. Neither of us have been to Europe before so the feedback is very helpful.

Now, to answer some of the questions:
- we don't go to museums, churches or see the architecture where we live. but when we travel we have explored museums of interest and i know we would both be interested in the architecture in italy.
- we don't prefer crowds but we definitely want to see sites like the Colosseum and don't mind being in crowds for that.
- i think i would feel sorry if I didn't see all the sites people talk about. We are going there to site see, but it would also be nice to have a part in the trip where we just relax.
- neither of us are religious so seeing the religious sites aren't important, although it would be cool to see the Vatican
- we both love food but also like seeing sites (not particularly art)
- we aren't opposed to either beach or farmland and don't mind being secluded with no cars or being in lively places (sorry I know that didn't narrow anything down but we don't have any preferences)
- our wedding, is going to be very simple. So we're really concentrating on putting our planning into the honeymoon.

I had the Amalfi coast on my list to see but thought it might be better to save that for another trip since I had a lot of sites in the northern area.

We are flying on United from San Francisco. I was told that there is a direct flight to Paris from Rome as well as Venice. I guess since we already have to have layovers on our trip, we can't do the open jaw. I asked if we could and they told me I have to do a round trip flight. ugh.

Thanks for all your feedback. I think we're just excited to go and trying to pack as much as we can in.

zeppole

Sounds like you should focus more on architectural touring than art-in-museums.

Some of the more jaw-dropping architectural walk arounds in Italy are:

Siena
Venice
St Peter's Square, the Pantheon, the Forum and Colisseum in Roma
Pisa
The historic center of Firenze

While places like Lucca and San Gimignano are also justly famous, you might do better to find it better to trim your sightseeing in Tuscany a bit, just because you don't have a car.

What might be a very "compromise" to get both your relaxation and your jaw-dropping sightseeing is to find a great honeymoon spot in Fiesole, which is just above Florence. It has great views, great wine and food, rural charm -- and buses that go straight into Florence, where you can connect to transportation to Siena, Pisa and even Lucca if you get ambitious.

I don't know what your budget is, but you might look at places like Fattoria Maiano in Fiesole, or Villa Fiesole, or just generally poke around net with Google searches for Fiesole and see if anything appeals. To really relax, it's nice to get a place with a restaurant attached or right nearby.

You might also consider staying just outside the walls of Siena, where the views are pretty and you can get some good transportation options to visit other towns (including Firenze), but not as good as connections from Firenze.

If you go to Cinque Terre, don't spend a lot of money on accommodations. Simple ones are often more fun -- and that can be true in Venezia as well. But in Roma, you definitely want to make sure you have a good place, and that usually costs. And you shouldn't skimp on charm for your stint in Tuscany.

Have a great trip!

annhig

hi, meeks,

first of all, congratulations - both on your nuptials and on your excellent decision to visit europe.

Now the hard bit - where to go and in what order.

after many years of travelling with varying degrees of success, what we find works best for us [you of course may be different] is to mix the holiday up between different types of experiences - eg town/beach/countryside/town. that way, you've got a chance of remembering what day/city it is as you tour the uffizi!

looking at your itinerary, you've got some great places [possibly too many] but not a great order to see them.

Starting in Paris, you say have the choice of flying to Rome or Venice but can't do open jaw. but no-one say that you have to use the 2nd half of the ticket. so, given the places you'd like to see, I'd fly into Venice, then get the train to Rome, [plenty of contrasts there].

that's about half of your stay.

then I'd hire a car and work my way back up to Girona, via, say, Siena and somewhere on the CT. I'd avoid staying Florence on this trip - you'll need some down time after Venice and Rome. but you could do a day trip on the bus from siena if you want to.

finally, return the car in girona[ie in italy to avoid high return charges] and get the overnight train back to Paris.

regards, ann

zeppole

"but no-one say that you have to use the 2nd half of the ticket"

I beg to differ. These days, if you are holding a ticket for a return flight and don't board it, you run the risk of having your name and passport information put onto databases that flag you as trouble when you try to get in and out of Europe.

And what's all this about "girona"? Do you mean Venice -- and if so, why not fly instead of take the overnight train? Not only does one avoid the immigration/sercurity issues of an unused ticket, it might be more pleasant than an overnight train.

Regarding Siena vs. Firenze: these days both are packed with tourists and both have always been jammed with an overload of tourist "must-sees". Staying in or near Firenze can be downtime if one remembers to treat it that way, as much as Siena. The two towns are really quite different. I find Siena rather dark and violent, but Firenze full of life and light. For a honeymoon, though, I'd rather perch just outside either of them, rather than in them. (Part of the problem of staying inside Siena is the distance to the train station).

ira

HI M,

Instead of returning to Rome to get to Paris, you ight want to take www.mayair.com from Venice VCE to Paris Orly.

This will give you another day in Venice, which you should do.

Alternatively, you could fly into Venice and out of Rome to Paris.

4 days is not too long for Florence.
Schedule an afternoon visit to Fiesole (No. 7 bus from the SMN train station - 0:20 hr - 1E) and watch the sun set over the city from the terrace of the Bar Blue.

You could go earlier and see the Etruscan ruins.

Enjoy your visit.


Nice plan.

lovisa

Meeks:

Whoever told you your roundtrip award ticket had to be to and from the same airport in Europe is just plain wrong.

A round trip can still be an open jaw.

If you look on the United Website, Mileage Plus Award Travel Overview, More Important Facts, it states:

"One stopover en route to your final destination or one open jaw is permitted for a flight award on United between the continental U.S. and Hawaii or between the U.S. and the Caribbean, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, Central and South America or Europe."

On United, it is easiest to get an award ticket to/from Rome because you fly from SFO to Dulles, and from there take another United flight to Rome Fiumicino, FCO, so you stay on "United metal" all the way.

Of course, it may also be possible to get flights partially on Star Alliance partners Lufthansa and Air One to Venice or Milan.

You cannot book an open jaw using the United website, you have to book over the phone using an agent and pay the additional fee ($15) per ticket for an agent booked flight.

If you go to www.flyertalk.com , there is a lot of information about strategies to figure out availability of frequent flyer flights.

I would fly into Rome and out of Paris, or vice versa, and plan your trip accordingly.

lovisa

If you don't want an additional flight, and want to go by train, I would propose the following itineraries, using what you've already provided, from Rome to Paris using the train (I would skip Venice as too out-of-the way):

1. Rome
2. Cinque Terre
3. Florence
4. Montreux (or elsewhere in Switzerland)
5 Paris

or:

1. Rome
2. Florence
3. Cinque Terre
4. Nice
5. Paris

Also, if you call United and find a satisfactory itinerary, you can put a 72 hour hold on it without irrevocably committing yourself to that ticket immediately.

zeppole

meeks, this place might interest you

http://www.albergoilcastello.it/inglese/index.htm