Planning UK trip: HELP!
 

My sister and I are both in our 20's, and we just started planning a London trip.

We are planning on staying 9 or 10 days.

So far, here are the things we've been considering:

As for a hotel, we've been considering "The Strand" and "Victoria Park Plaza." We've looked up information about a London Pass, and we understand that this offers you unlimited transportation for up to 6 days (is that correct?), as well as access to several attractions. There are many other attractions we have in mind, such as Buckingham and several gallerys.

Here comes the tricky part...

We plan on staying at our hotel in London for 9-10 days, but will only tour London for 6 days. For the rest of the time, we plan on getting a BritRail pass... which allows unlimited use of the Rails in UK. (Right?)Should be go where the wind takes us... or how could we plan this? My sister wants to go to Edinburgh, and I'd like to check out Stonehenge and Leeds Castle. Using the Rail, could we get to those places? ...Will using the BritRail be as easy as we think?

Any suggestions would be GREATLY welcomed. What should we do? Where should we go? Should we rethink some things? My sister and I are complete dunces when it comes to travelling. We've only been out of the U.S. once... and it was Canada! Seasoned experts are welcome to give advice!

Thanks in advance for taking out your time to read this!

Can't help at all with BritRail pass - except to say it is probably more flexible if travelling in the SE of the country to travel by bus/coach. For Edinburgh probably cheaper if you plan enuf in advance to fly.

It's your choice - but if you buy one of these all-in passes you are sort of tied in to doing all the stuff they include and it probably doesn't save you much money-wise - though maybe it does offer a sort of security - paid for=no need to negotiate queues, etc.

You don't say money is a factor so I guess it isn't. If it was me - I would just buy a day-trip all zones ticket each day - gives you total freedom and then pay for each attraction you end up at and takes your interest. So many of London's really worthwhile sights for a first time visitor are free (British Museum - but please, please, make a non-obligatory donation!). And others are not excessively expensive - St Pauls, Westminster Abbey. And others wouldn't be included in a tourist ticket - the ferry to Greenwich, for example. And others that probably are (Madame Tussauds are, at best, an acquired taste).

And why book a hotel for 9 days if you will only be there for 6?

The best advice I can offer is: don't whatever you do, plan everything down to the last detail - it's not as if there is going to be a major language problem - it's not China or Mali. And go with the flow. And maybe consider staying in a hostel rather than a hotel - many have twin rooms (though you may have to share a bathroom). And you'll meet people.

Anyway - some off the cuff ideas.
Happy researching and happy travels.

The London Pass is not a good value for most visitors. You can get Visitors Travelcards, or regular 7-day travelcards after you arrive, for about £20 that allow unlimited rides on tube and bus in Zones 1 and 2 which is where nearly all the attractions are. So many museums and other things are free in London, the London Pass promotional material is very misleading.

Try doing a search of these Fodors boards for your key concepts -- Stonehenge, Leeds, London Pass, etc. -- and you'll find lots of extensive, useful past discussions.

Hi ....

If I was wanting to get from London to Edinburgh ... I would get return flight ... try www.britishairways.com or www.easyjet.co.uk ....flight is about an hour ... then stay in city for 1 or 2 nights.

Mark

A few comments: London is the most expensive place you will be staying during your trip - so it makes no sense to stay there 10 days when you only plan on seeing London for 6 days.

Book a hotel or - better yet an apartment - for 6 or 7 days and then get out of London. You'll save money by staying elsewhere. But if your entire trip is only 10 days you won't have time to see much else. One or two other towns would be about it. So a Rail Pass would not be of much use to you. You will save a lot of money just buying point-to-point train tickets.

The London Pass and its transport option are not miuch of a bargain - you have a better choice of London Transport passes and travel cards after you are in London.

If your whole trip is only 9 or 10 days -- first decide on how much time you want to spend in London. If it is 6 or 7 days, then decide which other town(s) you want to visit. But if you want to see several other places - you will have to cut back the time in London.

Agree with what's been said. Neither pass you mention is probably a good option for <i>you</i>.

There are day trip tours to Stonehenge from London. The co. mentioned most for this is Astral Tours (they have a websiet). Stonehenge is not near a train station. Do a text search for Stonehenge here &amp; you'll see how others have done it. (Type stonehenge tours in the text search box above then click &quot;find&quot; for previous threads.) Pay particular attention to discussion of &quot;inner circle&quot; tours which may interest you.

Also do a text search on London to Edinburgh. You'll see pros &amp; cons of train vs air.

Check reviews of hotels on tripadvisor.com and also by doing text searches here (A text search on London Pass and/or London AND train pass would be a good idea so you understand why it may not be best for you).

Have you considered using Priceline for a hotel? People are getting very good deals. Read up on biddingfortravel.com You can see what people are paying &amp; get help on bidding.

An apt. or apt/hotel could also be a good idea for you. You get a kitchen(ette) for breakfast/lunch/snacks &amp; usually a bit more room at less cost than a hotel. Here are some apt websites that have been mentioned here

www.scala-house.co.uk near Tottenham Court Rd and Oxford Street in central London. 2 night minimum

Oxbridge apts http://www.oxrg.demon.co.uk/

www.apartment-hotels.com for Emperors Gate Short Stay apts

http://chslondon.com/vr/index.htm

Websites people like for London hotels are
londontown.com, londonnights.com

Thanks to everyone who replied! I really appreciate your suggestions and insight!

After reading several postings on these message boards, I'm definitely thinking twice about the London Pass. My sister and I have to decide where we REALLY want to go in London, and then decide if it will be beneficial. We've got 6 days of touring on London... I hope we can pack a lot into a day.

I like the idea of a RailPass over a flight because... flights can be a bit of a hassle. Also, someone was wondering about my concept of staying in London for 10 days, but only exporing for 6. Well, for the last 4 days, we were going to plan some &quot;out of London&quot; day trips. I heard you can get to Edinburgh (by rail) in 3 hours. Also, you can take a relatively quick trip to Salisbury, then take a bus to Stonehenge. I'm in the process of researching the best day trips.

I also read that Warwick Castle is a 10-minute walk from the nearest station. I wonder if there's a website where I can find more information like that?

I've done some research on tours. Evan Evans offers an Edinburgh day trip... which is actually the same price as a 4-day BritRail (Standard Class) pass. That's why I'm more interested in the rail pass.

I really don't mind the long travel time, especially if I get to see the places I want to go. ....But if you guys still think I'm crazy, please let me know!

Day trip(s) vs leaving London &amp; moving. I guess part depends on what price you're paying in London &amp; whether you'd like a change of scenery. Janis' point is London is VERY expensive. Instead of staying in London &amp; running yourselves ragged doing daytrips as far as Edinburgh, you could just leave London &amp; stay there or elsewhere. If you're going to travel for 6 hrs to/from Edinburgh you won't have very much time to see Edinburgh!

ElleKay, a very good source is Daytrips London by Earl Steinbicker (ISBN 0-8038-9367-1). There are 50 trips with walking tours and how to get there by train or car.

You might also consider a Britrail Pass called &quot;Days out of London&quot; which could be cheaper than point-to-point tickets. You can find info at: http://www.britrail.net/index_us.html

Edinburgh is just too far for a day trip. It might we worth investigating whether you could fly there for the last few days and then directly from there to your departing airport.

and to add a little more info - it takes 4+ hours to Edinburgh (not 3) -- and that is only IF there are no delays or cancellations as sometimes happens. Edinburgh is not very satisfactory as a day trip -- nine+ hours round trip if you include travel time to the train station. So even taking just 8 hours to see things you are still talking about a 17+ hour day.

As to that London Pass thing, take a look at the websites of the various museums, etc., on their list. I'm betting you will find that most of them do not charge admission, so the card is not actually saving you anything in that instance.

A Travelcard for the Tube is a different animal, and can be a very good value, depending on your habits.

Hi, I have done some train travel in GB. Some of the time I rented an apartment and did short trips by using the &quot;cheap day return&quot; tickets. On other tips I did that and would leave the bulk of my stuff in the apartment and pack an overnigh bag and head out to more distant places. Again on other trips I have covered various places by jumping around each day. My suggestion would to plan a night or two stay in either Edinburgh or even York as it is the mid point between Edinburgh and London and is worth seeing in its own right. I do like rail passes as it does give one the ease to board any train at any time, however they are not economical if not used often and for the more distant places.

There's a tour group that offers a day trip to Edinburgh from London. Are they bluffing, then? They also boast a tour from London to PARIS. That seems like a bluff to me...

Roger, I really liked your idea about staying in York for awhile. I was planning on visiting York anyway. I'll have to see what my sister thinks.

The reason why I planned on staying in London is because of something I read in a book. They said if you were planning day trips out of London, you should have a &quot;home base.&quot; Maybe I could just make a stop in York for a night, then venture on to Scotland?

I really appreciate everyone's feedback!

Elle:

There's no &quot;bluff&quot; in any of this. It's perfectly possible to do a day-trip to Edinburgh (loads of us do it all the time on business). It's just that it's a rush, means getting up early and back late, and involves spending a lot of time on a train or plane. If you're American, what would you think of someone on holiday in New York taking a day trip to Toronto?

Paris - which a good bit nearer London than Edinburgh is, and has a MUCH faster train - is obviously easier to do in a day. But the travel-time-to-seeing-stuff ratio is still not everyone's cup of cafe au lait.

So -there are companies offering day trips from London to Paris or Edinburgh. I guess they exist for folk who haven't discovered the internet!

Yes - you would be mad to do a day trip to Edinburgh .. absolutely .. no question. York has been mentioned - great city for sightseeing and access to the Dales - but that perhaps needs more time and an inclination to just &quot;BE&quot; rather than &quot;Do&quot; if you see what I mean.
How about Newcastle? - much closer to Edinburgh - you could do a day trip under yr own steam from there by train. And you could visit Hadrian's Wall and see the wonderful Northumbrian countryside; and you could go to Durham, which has the most glorious cathedral in the world and is only 30 mins by train. For my money much better than a trip that will take a whole day to overrated Stonehenge - and so much more fun to do your own thing.

As I said before - you are talking the UK not Burkina Faso.

I have followed out these ideas, and mapped out Leeds castle, Salisbury (for Stonehenge), Warwick, Edinburgh and followed up the good idea of keeping London hotel nights down but changing hotels as little as possible. Assuming travel on a weekday or a Saturday I find this.

Day trip to Leeds Castle, and back to London. Trains leave Victoria Station for the one-hour train trip Bearsted Station hourly: I suggest the train at 1018, to reach Bearstead at 1119. (earlier trains cost more, except on Saturdays and Sundays). There is a connecting bus to the castle. A combined ticket covering the train, bus connection to the castle and admission is on sale at Victoria station.

Morning train Waterloo to Salisbury. Find a cafe near the station that will take left luggage. Bus to Stonehenge and back. Salisbury 1647 or 1753, change at Basingstoke and Banbury, Warwick 1925 or 2021. Two nights hotel or bed and breakfast in Warwick.

Warwick 0751, change at Leamington 0755 to 0812. Breakfast in the buffet car. Edinburgh 1110. One or two nights hotel in a hotel centrally placed on the Royal mile.

Sleeper for two, to avoid travel time by day, and avoid a hotel bill. Board in Edinburgh at 2300, leave 2340. Reach London Euston 0719, sleep as late as may be, leave train 0800. I can tell you of a good place at Euston for breakfast, if you ask me.

If you do not mind tying yourselves down, you can book online now tickets for just one train and date, of no value if you miss the train, for each journey except Leeds Castle,

[email protected]

I forgot to say that the rail operating companies sell at any large station, and also via agents, three of which are
www.qjump.co.uk/home/
www.thetrainline.com/
www.nationalrail.co.uk/

[email protected]

Hi
You may find www.railtrack.co.uk useful for planning train journeys. You will see that Kings Cross to Edinburgh is 4 hours 7 mins at it's fastest, and nearer 5 hours at it's slowest (direct train). As a frequent traveller on this route (from York to Edinburgh) I have to say it is very often late! Is there something really specific your sister wants to see in Edinburgh? Because to my mind you are using up valuable time (10 hours????) travelling to this city - bearing in mind there are so many other wonderful places for you to explore nearer to London.

Thanks again for the help, everyone! As a first-time traveler, I really appreciate your advice.

I'm going to talk to my sister today... to see if she'll give up Edinburgh. To go there from London sounds completely nonsensical, especially after someone compared it to a daytrip from New York to Toronto. It would be easier to get to Cardiff, right? I might go there on a daytrip (either that, or Bath).

I also want to go to York, Leeds Castle, Warwick Castle and Stonehenge (Salisbury). Do you think I can squeeze those into 2 or 3 days?

This might sound like a silly question, but... is the Eurostar its own seperate entity, or would it be covered on any of the passes (Eurail Pass/BritRail Pass). Paris might be worthwhile, if only to see the Eiffel Tower and eat at a cafe.

&lt;&lt;I also want to go to York, Leeds Castle, Warwick Castle and Stonehenge (Salisbury). Do you think I can squeeze those into 2 or 3 days?&gt;&gt;

No, you can't, for geographical reasons. York is a full day minimum, and there is no practical way of combining any two of the other three into one day (short of renting a helicopter). Stonehenge and Salisbury is pretty well a day on its own. Warwick Castle is a half days, but there are other worthwhile things to do in Warwick to fill out the day. Leeds Castle isn't really much more than a photo-op and is somewhat hard to get to by train &amp; bus, so could perhaps be dropped.

You have picked four places that are four entirely different directions from London. Perhaps you should take a peek at a map of the UK. Leeds Castle is ESE of London; Stonehenge is WSW; Warwick is NW; and York is N (a long way north at that). It would be hard to hit all four of those in 5 days let alone in a couple of days out of London.

On top of that you want to add Paris and Cardiff and/or Bath. It seems that very little of what you actually want to see is in London.

My daugher did a day trip to Edinburgh when she got caught in London after 9/11. She was waiting day by day to see when she could come home and didn't want to commit herself to a longer visit. She said it was a very long day and she was quite tired when she got back to London; but she thoroughly enjoyed the trip, and it whetted her appetite to go back and spend more time in both Edinburgh and Scotland.

There is PLENTY I want to see in London. If I listed everything, I'd be typing for the next 5 minutes. I've got 6 days for that, though.

I just don't know how to divide the last 4 days. I think York will definitely be a day trip. ...Probably Warwick, too. I don't know. Would it help if I woke up at the crack of dawn, moved very quickly, and didn't mind exhausting myself? (LOL)

I did check out a map. I also went to that rail.co.uk site. It's not that I haven't done the research... I'm just wondering what people think.

STOP!!!!!!! Take a deep breath. Everything doesn't have to be planned in two days. You've been given lots of, perhaps too many, opinions, some contradictory.

Well... I finally talked to my sister. After weeding through all of your suggestions, and reading about daytrips on other sites, as well as the Fodors message board, I've put together a very basic itinerary.

(We've added an extra day. We will now be staying for 11 days)

Days 1-5: Spending time in London, checking out all the major things we want to do.

Day 6 &amp; 7: Try to squeeze in as many &quot;out of London&quot; sites as we can, including Windsor, Warwick, Blenheim Palace, Straford-on-Avon (only because it's close to Warwick) and Salisbury (but only for Stonehenge) One of more of those are likely to be omitted.

Day 8: As early as possible, travel from London to York. We'll stay in York overnight. (Looking forward to the Minster Cathedral and the ghost tour!)

Day 9: Check out of York hotel. As early as possible, travel from York to Edinburgh (we'll have our clothes in handbags) and spend 8 or 9 hours in that city. Return to London that night.

Days 10 &amp; 11: Spend time in London, catching up on all the things we might have missed.

How does that sound? :) Am I getting closer to realism?

I've omitted Paris. *sigh* Maybe someday...

I definitely need to &quot;stop and take a deep breath.&quot; That's wise. I've been obsessing over this.

Hi - it would definitely seem like you are a castle fan! I have been to Warwick, Leeds and Edinburgh castle. All are fantastic and very different. When you go to Edinburgh you must do the castle there and take the audio tour it's brilliant - the walk along the cobbled streets to get there is right through town too so you actually feel like you're in Scotland. You didn't mention where you were flying out from but I would certainly recommend you look at EasyJet or Ryan air websites, as the flight is only just over an hour and at the moment you can get them for as low as ONE POUND. So if you are going up by rail via York, you could save yourself alot of time by flying back down to London if that is where you have to fly out from.

We were in a somewhat similar situation when we visited London (wanting to see a lot with not enough time!). We took and Evan Evans tour that included Oxford, Stratford and Warwick Castle. It was a little rushed, but overall quite enjoyable. Our guide was very good. They have many other tours such as Bath with Stonehenge. You may want to look into them further.

Hi
Yes! The trip to York, overnight stay and then on to Edinburgh is good thinking, and should work really well. York is a lovely place (I live close by)and then Edinburgh the next day is ideal. A couple of tips from a frequent traveller when going on the train from London to York/Edinburgh - go first class if you can afford it. If you can't, go second class but maybe have a breakfast/lunch/dinner on the train. If it isn't busy you will be able to keep your buffet car (ie first class) seat all the journey. The food on the GNER service is actually better than a lot of restaurants I go to. The breakfast is especially nice and might be worth considering if you are making an early start to Edinburgh.
Another tip - when travelling north from York sit on the right of the train. That way you get the good views - watch out for Holy Island (Lindisfarne) and some stunning seaviews, as some of the way the train goes right next to the coast (near Berwick on Tweed). I never tire of looking! Small points I know when planning a big trip but you might as well make the most of it all!
M

&quot;Day 6 &amp; 7: Try to squeeze in as many &quot;out of London&quot; sites as we can, including Windsor, Warwick, Blenheim Palace, Straford-on-Avon (only because it's close to Warwick) and Salisbury (but only for Stonehenge) One of more of those are likely to be omitted.&quot;

I think I give up. Have you consulted a map yet? Maybe you have and figure it's worth all those hours on a bus/train just so you can say when you get home:

&quot;we went here, and we went there&quot;. All you'll have done is tick them off.

Good advice from above poster on the good things about taking the train from London to Edinburgh. But the passage from your last post (above) really says it all.


Happy holiday.

I agree with alice. You risk cramming far too much into too short a period of time.

Your current plans for days 6 &amp; 7 will be utterly exhausting and frustrating.

You might be able to cram Warwick Stratford and Bleinham into one (nightmarish) day if you went on an Evans Evans type tour by bus.

However, if (as you apparently plan to do) you rely on the train and connecting bus services you would be lucky to cram Stratford and Warwick into one day.

Bleinham does not itself have a train station. You have to get a bus from Oxford. You could easily spend a day at Bleinham/Oxford (which is a relatively swift journey from Paddington).

Similarly, the trip to Edinburgh still seems quite rushed to me even stopping off at York. It takes about two hours from York to Edinburgh by train and about five hours from Edinburgh to London. Even if you catch a train at 9.00 by the time you have arrived in Edinburgh deposited your luggage and left the station, it will be almost midday. You will have five hours maximum before you need to catch the train back to London.

It would be better to either skip the trip to Edinburgh and spend a relaxing day and a half in York or skip the stay in York and go straight to Edinburgh (perhaps as Ben Haines sugggests getting the sleeper there) and spend almost a day and a half in Edinburgh.

Alternatively, scrap the trip to Edinburgh/York and have a series of daytrips from London to southern england destinations(as suggested by the excellent Ben Haines) using your hotel as a base and making the most of your rail pass.Most train services radiate from London.

Then next time you could visit Scotland or Wales.

I understand that you want to cram as much as possible into your trip but if you leave some treats for another time there will be an incentive to come back!

You guys aren't being very nice anymore. ...I'm not talking about everyone, but the last couple of posters were very discouraging, and one post was borderlining on rude.

I want to point out a couple things I said:

&quot;One of more of those are likely to be omitted.&quot;

&quot;Days 10 &amp; 11: Spend time in London, catching up on all the things we might have missed.&quot;

I don't plan on visiting ALL of those places in 2 days. However, I only plan on spending a few hours in each place. ...Is it really so bad to go home and say &quot;we went there, we went there...?&quot; We probably won't be back. My sister and I don't travel too often--we're young and on a budget. We're excited, and we're trying to make the most of what little time we have.

On the other hand, I want to say thank you to Morgana for your encouraging words and helpful tips. :)

I'm sorry if I upset anyone with my previous post. I was briefly discouraged.

I'm not scrapping York &amp; Edinburgh. I'm deadset on them, and I KNOW people have done similiar things and had a great time.

But I have 2 more days. Which 2 of the following daytrips would be the most fulfilling/entertaining?

1. Stratford-upon-Avon + Warwick

2. Blenheim Palace + Oxford

3. Salisbury + Stonehenge

I've given up on Leeds Castle. It's lovely, but I just don't have time.

As for Windsor, I hope to shimmy it into the schedule on day 9 or 10.

Thanks to EVERYONE who has taken the time to read my posts, even the girl I was referring to in my last post. Don't &quot;give up&quot; on me! I've never been to England, so it's hard for me to visualize how long it takes to get to and fro. I'm learning!

Hi
Don't be discouraged! I think your trip to York/Edinburgh is a good use of time. You are young and energetic, and a couple of early starts and late finishes will ensure you see plenty of these 2 cities. Just walking into York Minster will make the trip well worth while!
However, I think it is easy to imagine that because England is 'small' it is easy to get everywhere. If only that were so! Choked motorways, roadworks, delays on the train - you can't assume you can just swish from place to place. The rail network is fine when it all works well, but the days where trains went to numerous small towns and villages are long gone. I think you really need to decide WHY you want to go somewhere. For instance Blenheim is wonderful - but do you have a particular reason to want to go? Architecture? paintings? military history? Once you have narrowed it down a bit you will be fine!

Sorry if I gave offence. Just want you to have a fantastic time and rushing around is not the way to do it - esp, as Morgana says, when you can't count absolutely on the reliability of public transport. Please remember that although it is a small country to you, it is densely populated.
As I said in my very first post, if you are on a budget, why stay at a hotel?
You are in your twenties - wouldn't you like to meet other travellers? And to think you will never return - well, you have a point there cos there are so many places to see. But if you stayed in a hostel you would save - let's see:
average cost of bed in hostel = gbp18 * 2 = 36. Guess hotel costs gbp 100+.
Multiply by 10.
Wish you all the best.

I have a solution! Instead of considering Windsor &amp; Blenheim, I'm going to Hampton Court Palace. It's much closer to London, and the history is more interesting to me, anyway.

Also, when I go to Warwick Castle, I'll likely skip the Stratford-Upon-Avon trip.

I'm still doing York &amp; Edinburgh. The York Minster is just so beautiful, and I desperately want to see Edinburgh Castle and walk the Royal Mile. I'm also doing Salisbury/Stonehenge. I've found some other things I want to see there!

Thank you guys for ALL of your help. I think I've finally worked up a reasonable itinerary. I hope the trains don't fail me! ;)

Elle, my husband, daughter and I are planning a similar trip for May. We are flying into Gatwick and then taking an Easyjet flight to Edinburgh the same morning. We are spending 3 nights in Edinburgh before traveling by train to Durham for a half day and then into York for 2 nights. Our final 6 nights will be spent in London, but we will do a couple of day or half day trips to other locations around London.
Deciding on the kind of rail passes to purchase [or not purchase] is confusing. The cost of a rail ticket can vary by 100% adding to the confusion! There seem to be so many options, plus we haven't nailed down the 6 days in London yet. If anyone can offer suggestions about understanding rail pricing, I am sure we will both benefit.
Good luck and have fun. London is a wonderful place...I can't wait to go back and see a few of the things we missed the first time...and share some of the favorites with our daughter.
Karen

Hi again
Sounds as if you are just about sorted!
I am sure you will love Hampton Court and it's not far to travel. Did you read the stuff recently about the Hampton Court ghost caught on video and camera - a google search will bring up the pictures or you can watch the video. It's yet to be proved a fake!
Near Hampton Court you will find Kew Gardens - have a look at www.rbgkew.org.uk - a world heritage site and a fantastic place, well worth a visit.
Hope you have a lovely holiday.
M

ElleKay,

Apologies if my previous post was too negative! I was just trying to stop you returning home exhausted.

Your current plans sound much better.

I am glad you are going to York. The Minster is fantastic (but I am biased as I come from York originally).If you have time try to walk along the city walls.My favourite stretch overlooks the Minster and the Deanery.

Hampton Court is another good choice. You can easily spend most of a day wandering round the palace and gardens.The setting on the River Thanmes is spectacular!

Have a marvellous time and please post a trip report.

Have a look at www.discount-london for some great deals on accomodation and attractions. Have you thought of going to Paris for a day or two? I took a friend from Florida on Eurostar from London to Paris and he waqs very impressed! Not expensive either.