KarenWoo

My husband and I (both in our late 60's) want to see southern Spain next September after we visit our daughter who lives in France. We will have two weeks. I have done some preliminary research. We also want to visit Madrid for a few days and possibly Toledo. Then on to Seville, Granada, Cordoba, and possibly some white towns. Want to stay 2 nights in Granada so we can visit Alhambra at night; maybe 4 nights in Seville; one night in Cordoba. Do we have time to include the white towns? I think we will take public transportation everywhere except we would need to rent a car for the white towns. Does my plan sound doable?

Right now I'm looking for recommendations on how many nights we should plan in each place. We don't want to change hotels every night. We enjoy just about everything: beautiful scenery, good food, music, wine, museums, art.

Thanks for any advice.

john183

This is way more information than you bargained for but we did this trip in 2006 (we were in our mid to late 50s) and absolutely loved it. We moved around a bit but thoroughly enjoyed everything we did. I know you will have a great time too.

Spain Itinerary

Oct. 10 Leave Atlanta Delta flight 114 at 8:15 PM
Oct. 11 Arrive Barcelona at 11:05 AM
Oct. 11-12 Raco del Pi Hotel

Oct 13 Overnight train to Granada Leave 9:30 PM arrive 8:57 AM
Renfe T-Hotel berth 41 - 45
Oct. 14-15 Alhambra Palace Hotel

Oct. 16-18 Rent Avis car in Granada – drive to Ronda
Parador de Ronda
Day trips to Gibraltar and the “white villages”

Oct. 19-20 Drop car off in Seville
Hotel Cervantes

Oct 21 Take AVE train to Cordoba
Store luggage in locker, tour Mezquita
Continue on AVE train to Madrid arrive early afternoon
Oct 21-24 Stay with friends – day trip to Toledo

Oct 25 Leave Madrid Delta flight 109 at 11:25 AM
Arrive Atlanta at 3:05 PM

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...p-report-2.cfm

https://john183italy2012.shutterfly.com/pictures/648

aliced

We did Spain three years ago beginning in Barcelona and ending in Marbella. Your plan for two weeks is definitely doable without being too rushed. I would recommend taking the train from Madrid south to Cordoba and/or Seville. From there you would best be served driving through the Pueblos Blancos over to Granada. While we stayed two nights in Cordoba and three or four in Seville, you might wish to just stay in Seville and see Cordoba via a day trip to save you an additional short stay. Driving out of Seville was easy, we wish we had gone to Cadiz rather than Jerez de la Frontera before stopping in Arcos, and then on to Ronda where we spent two nights before driving to Granada. It seemed driving to Ronda would have been too far a day trip, this is why we chose to stop in Jerez for a night. Ronda is most definitely worth a full day and night, or two as we arrived late the first day. Traffic was pretty crazy in Granada due to heavy construction on the inner ring; also our hotel was in a pedestrian zone which made it difficult to pinpoint with GPS; once there, we did not use the rental car until we left for Marbella. Yes, you'll need two nights there in order to see the magical Alhambra at night. We enjoyed Seville more than we did Madrid, and Cordoba far exceeded our expectations, especially since it was where we found the very best sangria! So, in summary -- Madrid - 2-3 nts, Cordoba - 1-2, Seville - 3-4, Ronda - 2, Granada - 2

kja

IMO, you probably have enough time, but it really depends on what you want to see and do. IMO, a reasonable visit to Andalusia takes about 10 days -- at least 3 days for Sevilla, at least 1 (if not 2) days for Cordoba, at least 2 (if not 3) days for Granada, at least a day for Ronda (more if you decide to rent a car -- which would otherwise be unnecessary -- and want to see more of the white villages), plus whatever time it takes to make sure you have time for your travel.

I thought Toledo worth 2 full days (2 or 3 nights). I also thought Madrid worth 4 full days (not counting Segovia or Avila or Toledo or anything else, save a 1/2 day trip to El Escorial and the Valley of the Fallen) -- BUT because Madrid has an international airport, that's the easiest city on your itinerary to revisit, and so the one that probably makes most sense to defer.

As you plan, keep in mind that many things in Spain are closed on Monday, and often for all or part of Sundays too; and many things in Spain will also be closed daily for a very long mid-day break.

You'll see some wonderful things no matter what you decide!

KarenWoo

Thank you everyone for your responses and helpful advice. There is no such thing as too much information.

John, I appreciate your itinerary, trip report and photos!

Maybe we will do something similar to what aliced suggests. I would like to include Madrid on this trip, if possible, because each time we visit our daughter, we would like to go to a different country. This will be our 2nd visit to Spain; we've been to Barcelona and Costa Brava. So other future visits to see our daughter might include trips to Italy, Portugal, etc.

kja, thank you for the reminder about closings. We've noticed while traveling in France that many restaurants have set hours for lunch, then close for a couple hours before re-opening for dinner. So you have to plan your sightseeing and lunch breaks accordingly.

PalenQ

I think we will take public transportation everywhere except we would need to rent a car for the white towns>

No need for a car - I took a bus between Ronda and Seville and it stopped in the iconic white towns - frequent enough service.

Train to Ronda from Granada is possible too - anyway trains are great in Spain these days and buses pick up the slack.

For lots on Spanish trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. Booking early can save a ton but also investigate the Spain Railpass as you seem to be taking enough trains to merit a look at it.

Where are you starting from in France?

KarenWoo

PalenQ, We would be flying from Marseilles so I assume we will fly from Marseilles to Madrid.

PalenQ

You may want to fly into say Seville and work your way back to Madrid and fly out of there or vice versa.

kimhe

I suggest you plan at least a couple of days by the coast. Inland Andalucia is normally still very hot in September, and add that to Madrid and Toledo, the whole two weeks could be close to unbearable. And you are so close to fabulous and 3000 year old Málaga city by the Med, what Condé Nast rightfully calls "Spain's new creative heart".

Just back from Málaga for the fifteenth time in about as many years. Also a couple of fabulous flamenco days in Sevilla, but Málaga only gets better and better. What a city! World class museums, amazing restaurants and tapas bars, the genuine and laid-back Andalucian atmosphere in the different barrios/districts, ahhh.

Lonely Planet now describes Málaga as "the province's city of culture with its so-called 'mile of art' being compared to Madrid, and its dynamism and fine dining to Barcelona...". https://www.lonelyplanet.com/spain/andalucia/malaga

Pretty much to the point. You can read up on the many great museums, the many historic sights and the faulous food scene in newspapers and travel magazines, but here are some tips from our latest trip:

Affordable cuttting edge dining in Óleo at the Contemporary Arts Center by the river. Excellent terrace, atmosphere and the most friendly, knowledgeable and accommodating waiters. Best food experience in more than a year, and that includes several days in food mecca San Sebastián: http://azahar-spain.com/azahartapas/oleo/

Genuine flamenco song and guitar down in the basement in Peña Juan Breva, one of the oldest exsting flamenco clubs in Spain, every Friday night at 10:30 pm. Free entrance and also an atmospheric bar/restaurant on the ground floor. Also a flamenco museum here: http://www.malagaturismo.com/en/tour...breva-group/79

The freshest typical Málaga style fish and seafood in very popular Chiringuito Cachalote right on the Malagueta beach. Also several other excellent chiringuitos (beachfront restaurants) along the long and wide Malagueta beach, for example more upscale Chiringuito Tropicana and more laid-back Chiringuito La Jabega where you eat the freshest grilled fish and seafood with your feet in the sand. http://chiringuitoelcachalote.com/

And in a short time Gran Hotel Miramar from 1826 reopens right on the Malagueta beach: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...miramar+malaga

Málaga city beaches: https://www.spain-holiday.com/Malaga...ty-beach-guide

As said, great food scene, and that is much thanks to the fabulous Atarazanas food market right in the city center. My favourite food market in Spain after thirty years of travel around the country. Also a couple of fabulous tapas bars in here: https://eastofmalaga.net/2014/07/25/...ry-perception/

And Málaga is now one of three Spanish cities recommended by New York Times. The other two are Barcelona and San Sebastián. "Beauty, but now a cultural capital, too": http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...isit.html?_r=2

Could go on and on, but finish with a tour of Málaga together with Pablo Alborán: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AKba0ybDMc

progol

Karen,
You will have a fabulous trip no matter what you choose! With 2 weeks, however, there will need to be choices (and sacrifices!) made!

My husband and I made a 3 week trip to Spain (20 nights) covering the cities that interest you, and I only wish I had more time to spend to cover all of them in more depth. Our itinerary was, as follows: Toledo (2); Seville (4); Cordoba (3); Granada (3); Ronda (2); Malaga (2); and Madrid (4). I wouldn't change much, if anything, but I've found that having a large city at the end of my trip is always harder to manage, so we had less energy for Madrid than I might've had earlier in my trip. We are not late night folks, so we missed some of the vibrancy of the city at night, but were completely immersed in the museums and other cultural offerings during the day.

Here is my trip report; I hope you find it helpful:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...and-madrid.cfm

For my part, Seville does need 4 nights - it was the city that stole our hearts! Vibrant, colorful, full of everything one imagines in Andalucia - for a first time visiter to the region, it was our favorite city.

That being said, ALL the cities that we visited had much to offer and were worth as much time as could be given. So, as others have said, it's really a matter of what you want to do and see. Are you folks who would rather stay in one place and make day trips? Or would you rather stay over for a night or 2 to experience a place? For my part, I was very glad to stay over in both Toledo and Cordoba -- I prefer the feeling of a city at night and in the morning because during the day, these places are filled with people visiting sites, but (for me) the flavor of a city is best felt when it's quieter. I also loved being at the Mezquita in the early morning before the crowds come and one can really feel the majesty of the space.

I realize that this isn't making your choices any easier! There's no BAD choice, however! It's all wonderful!

KarenWoo

Thank you to Kimhe and Progol for your detailed replies. Would the weather be cooler in October? I know we won't be happy if it is unbearably hot. We could go to France the last 2 weeks of September to visit my daughter, and then spend the first two weeks of October in Andalucía.

Malaga sounds beautiful, too! I know we won't have time for everything, but hopefully we can make a better-informed decision after reading more guidebooks. I do enjoy seeing a place early in the morning and at night, so I think we would prefer to spend 1 or 2 nights in some places rather than do day-trips. We did that the last time we visited Czech Republic. We stayed overnight in Karlovy Vary and Cesky Krumlov instead of making them a day trip from Prague, which I enjoy more and also find more relaxing.

Thank you!

kja

October would, IMO, be better than September. You can check historic climate data at wunderground.com

PalenQ

We could go to France the last 2 weeks of September to visit my daughter, and then spend the first two weeks of October in Andalucía.>

Yes in that order - France will be less warm in most places in October than Andalucia but if in the south of France not so much.

Nelson

If you go in October one important closing to be aware of is the Alhambra night visit. I think the change date is October 15, so you might be OK, but they switch from Tuesday-Saturday visits to Thursday-Saturday only.

Helpful Fodorites pointed that out is I had missed that for our trip last year, with Granada late in month. I changed our itinerary to make sure we arrived on a Thursday, and we did the Friday night visit.

I have a TR here, but to be honest I'm not a particularly good writer ...
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...p-to-spain.cfm

I have photos here:
http://nelsonchenkin.zenfolio.com/spain

Have fun with your planning!

maitaitom

Here's my trip report with tons of photos from 2015 journey to Barcelona, Granada, Sevilla, Cordoba, Toledo and Madrid,. With only a week, I would definitely not recommend time in the White Towns, which frankly we thought were not so great.

http://travelswithmaitaitom.com/spain-2015/

kja

BTW, as you consider your options, note that Oct. 12 is a major national holiday in Spain -- Hispanic Day (Día de la Hispanidad), aka National Day (Fiesta Nacional de España). MANY things will be closed and many Spaniards may be taking short trips around then.

UALAN

I have now a plan ti go for enjoying some holidays in France, I will try to stay its city of Paris. Because I love to enjoy myself here near of this attraction. I hope so I will best time spend in France trip with my two friends. Whats your story of travel about France?

PalenQ

Whats your story of travel about France?>

Depends on how much time you have and whether you want to go by car or train or both?

KarenWoo

MaiTaiTom, I loved reading your trip report, and your photos are gorgeous!!

kja and Nelson, thank you so much for information about the October 12 holiday, and letting me know the Alhambra night schedule changes in mid-October.

Nelson, what were the temperatures like in October?
Thanks everyone!

Nelson

Karen, for our trip which was Oct 5 - 28 last year I'd say the weather near "perfect". Typical temperatures during the day of mid to upper 70's F, maybe upper 50's at night.

The first week was Madrid & Toledo and we had a two cool and blustery days. In fact one was the day we arrived and the other was our last full day in Toledo. I remember having on my lightweight jack plus wind/rain shell when I took this photo, and was stilled a bit chilled:
http://nelsonchenkin.zenfolio.com/to...cc6a#h6104cc6a

Temps in the low 50's, breeze, a bit of mist / light rain starting to fall. Quickly retreated to shelter of nearby tapa bar for a GT! My wife was drinking something hot to keep warm.

But when we hit Andalusia it was near perfect the entire two weeks. I remember one cool and rainy day in Ubeda, raining lightly when I took this picture, October 17:
http://nelsonchenkin.zenfolio.com/ja...6a5c#h65ac6a5c

But then back to fabulous blue skies and perfect temps like this, October 21:
http://nelsonchenkin.zenfolio.com/ja...8a83#h612e8a83

It all changed our last day in Ronda, October 27, temperatures dropped about 15 degrees, rain moved in, and it looked like this was going to be a long term change.

So that was a long story when "generally perfect weather" would have sufficed, but hope it helped.