Planning my 1st Europe trip
 

Hey! I am starting to plan my first trip to Europe for summer '08 (late May). My husband and I both have never been and I am trying to figure out what will work best for us. I would like some advise on travel and hotels. Our plan includes:

-2 weeks in Europe (my husband only gets 2 weeks vacation)
-Will visit London, Paris, Rome, Venice
-Want to spend about $250 per night for a hotel in London and $150 for other cities
- Is it worth our time (and do we have enough time) to visit Bath, Edinburgh and Amsterdam?
- Since we are trying to see so much in such a little time should we train from city to city or fly (and what is the least hectic?)
- Any hotel recommendations for the major cities?
- We are thinking of flying in and out of London but may fly out of somewhere else (if it saves us good time and is not too much more expensive)

Anyway... I really appreciate any info you can share. I do not have any family that has gone to Europe and I firmly believe in personal recommendations! Thanks! :)

Hi S,

>-2 weeks in Europe ...Will visit London, Paris, Rome, Venice

I think that you have one too many destinations.

I suggest for first timers,
A. Paris and London
B. Paris, and Venice and Florence
C. Paris and Rome
D. Venice, Florence and Rome

>do we have enough time to visit Bath, Edinburgh and Amsterdam?

See above

>We are thinking of flying in and out of London but may fly out of somewhere else

Fly into one city and home from the other. It's called open-jaw. Fares are about the same as RT from a single city.

Enjoy your planning.

((I))

I always refer three sources to anyone planning a European rail trip who is fairly clueless:

www.ricksteves.com has lots on trains, passes and even cheap flights to mix in with train travel - i.e. start in London, end up in Rome and fly back cheaply to London.

www.budgeteuropetravel.com for on their home page the chance to get the excellent and free European Planning & Rail Guide - a great primer on planning a rail trip- country by country rail itinerary planning - using trains, passes, etc. rail maps of each country.

3- Fodorites - constantly amaze me with the wealth of information they provide - on rail travel, packing, etc. any Q posed will have someone very knowledgeable answer it.

I agree with ira on this one. You need to consider a couple of things: jet lag & travel time between cities. One idea is to start in London, get over an jet lag you might have & get your bearings. Spend 7-9 days. You can easily see Bath in one day as a day trip from London. Other great day trips include Windsor Castle & Hampton Court.

Even with the devalued dollar you should be able to find a hotel room in London for $200-250 US. We stayed at the Copthorne Tara for just under $200/night.

Take the Chunnel to Paris. Spend the balance of your time there. Do not waste time at Euro Disney. Do see Verseille. You can also day-trip to Chartre or Givergny to see Monet's gardens.

Fly home from Paris (open jaws) as previously mentioned.

Go on your trip knowing that you will return to Europe to see Amsterdam, Florence, Venice, Rome and all the other glorious sites.

I agree that you have one too many cities in there. Visit London and Paris, or Paris and Rome. If you must kill yourselves, you could try London, Paris and Rome. We did Rome in a week and felt rushed. Same with 6 days in London. We're about to do 4 days in Paris (and 4 on the Riviera) and I'm already realizing we won't see a lot of what we want. If you want to enjoy yourselves, pick two. Really. That will also mean less traveling between cities, which should free up some cash for hotel rooms, which are very $$ in Europe. I agree that you should buy your airfare based on "multiple destinations"-- for example, your home city to London for the outgoing flight and Paris back to your home city for the incoming flight. You could take the under water train or a short flight between Paris and London, or see if it is cheaper to do a 3 leg flight-- your city to London, London to Paris, and Paris to home. And so on. We loved Bath and Edinburgh, but we did them on a 2 week vacation that included London, so that was a totally different ballgame than what you propose. I would not even think about adding these cities to what you have listed. Again, I vote that you do either London and Paris or Paris and Rome. If you do Lon and Par, you could always do an "Italy" trip later on to include Rome and Venice together, or vice versa. If you do Paris and Rome, you could do an England/Scotland trip later (we did this as one and loved it), to include London, Bath and Edinburgh. You will travel later, so relax a little and have a better time and enjoy these cities.

I, too, think you should drop 1 city. IMO, Venice is the one that takes the least amount of time. I think Paris, London and Rome could be a little much for just 2 weeks. I'd fly between them, although the Eurostar is nice as well between Paris and London.

As for hotels, I can only recommend Paris ones, which are definitely in your budget: Hotel de la Porte Doree and Residence de les Gobelines. However, these are a little farther out and a little too budget than you may want , perhaps, so you may want something a little nicer in the 4-7 eme. There is a ton of past information here about these kinds of Paris hotels, but I can't give a first-hand rating of them, as I've only stayed at the 2 listed above.

agreed.
Paris and London with side trips.
Both are very large cities with more to see than you can imagine. There are number of terrific day side trips you can take from either place .
If you try to do too much you will be spending time on planes and trains
and will just "skim" the surface.
On the other hand, some people like to do just that: spend a few days in each place to make the "most of " their trip.
If that is what you wish, plan very carefully( be mindful of jet lag effect for a few days
and the time and money needed to travel from one destination to another)

Just prioritize what places you and companions would most like to see based on your intuition and then construct rai/air/overnight train route between them.

extra travel means extra costs - and less time actually seeing things.

I agree - drop one city - or two. LOndon and Paris w/ a day trip out of each is probably the easiest itinerary. But any 3 of those cities (or at most 3) would work.

Airfares in/out of London/Paris will be lower that in/out of Italy.

For Paris, three recently refurbished hotels with A/C that you might enjoy - very popular so book one for May around Jan-Feb.

Hotel Familia / sister hotel Minerve (Latin Quarter)
99-119E, incl. breakfast
http://www.hotel-paris-familia.com/
104-118E, breakfast 8E
http://www.hotel-paris-minerve.com/

Hotel Muguet (Eiffel/Invalides)
2 people/double 130E, queen 170E
http://www.paris-hotel-muguet.com/

You will want to take the Eurostar from London to Paris, that way you are going city-center to city-center and don't need to deal with the airports again. Even the budget airlines have add-on cost as they use smaller airports and transportation may not be convenient.

For Paris-Rome, you probably do want to fly, as it is a very very long train ride. Paris-Amsterdam, however, is under 4 hours. Never circle back to the city you fly into if you can help it.

I, too, think you might want to drop one city, but if it's your first trip to Europe you should pack in as much as you think you can handle.
In London, I'd recommend The De Vere Cavendish (now just The Cavendish, I think?) 81 Jermyn Street. Great location, lovely hotel. Also look at TripAdvisor for reviews- they are usually fair & accurate. I don't think Bath would be worth a day trip from London. Take the train to Paris but definitely fly to Rome. I've heard that one night in Venice is enough - possibly you could train there from Rome (not sure on train times vs. flight times). There are lots of low price carriers like Ryan Air and EasyJet that you can easily use for intra-EU flights.

If I was planing this, and wanted to see as much as I could, I would choose London - 4 days, Amsterdam - 4 days, and Paris 5 days with the understanding you will need to do some research on the places to visit to make these meaningful and memrable

If your holiday dates are flexible, try to plan so that Memorial Day falls somewhere in the middle. That way, you get an extra day's holiday but don't have to deal with crowds and congestion in airports on your way to or from Europe. Or, if that's not possible, plan it so that you're coming back on the end of the Memorial Day weekend (instead of starting your trip). If your plans get messed up because of the holiday weekend, you'll already have made it to Europe so it's less stressful.

You should investigate the dates of statutory holidays in the countries you're visiting. There are some holidays associated with the Christian Calendar in Continental Europe (e.g. Assumption, Pentecost, etc) but the date changes from year to year. There are also bank holiday weekends in the UK (although I think the Bank Holiday is earlier in May than your planned trip). On these long weekends, airports, train stations and hotels are busier and some places you might want to visit might be closed.

re Kate's info about Bank Holidays in the UK - The first AND the last weekends of May are both big holiday weekends. Things won't be closed - but tourist attractions will be more crowded.

and if going by train on Bank Holiday weekends expect chaos potentially on the railways due to 'essential trackwork' that is often carried out it seems on Bank Holiday weekends.

Was recently in UK for Aug Bank Holiday and buses were substituted for sections of London-Edinburgh line - train travel thru Reading was not possible - even though the Reading Festival was that weekend, etc. There were tons of complaints in papers, etc. because this should be a heavy travel period but some railways were shut

Hi, a good place to search for budget hotels is http://www.filcoo.com/?af=100157 Apart from the fact that the site is very well programmed, you also get additional info like how far the hotel is from major points like bus terminals, airport etc, it also shows you a city map and lists all the facilities available at a hotel. You can book accomodation from B & B to deluxe hotels and get discounts upto 75%. And you can pay at the hotel directly.

They have also got an online travel guide. But wherever you go, make sure that you plan well and stay in reputed, secure places. Have a safe and enjoyable trip !

the earlier you go in spring the cheaper Italian hotels can be - except the hectic week before and after Easter.

thus you pay the same as you would in summer as per your budget but get a better place.

for example last january i had for me a rather nice hotel - en suite meaning shower and toilet in the room, clean, quiet, etc. for 39 euros right by the Florence train station. And there was an unlimited breakfast buffet on a top floor panoramic room.

But in summer this exact same room would have cost 85 euros according to the desk manager and may well not have been available.

I too think you should drop at least one city from your list. You don't want to exhaust yourself on your first trip to Europe. Jetlag will be a factor that you need to consider as well.

I can't really recomment the hotels we stayed at in London, as I don't think they were that great. In Paris we stayed at the Hotel du Champ de Mars in the 7th. Our room was small but charming, and we had a view of the top of the Eiffel Tower. Our room was about 90 euro per night.

Hotels in Rome can be pricy but with some research you shouldn't have a problem. We stayed at a lovely apartment near Piazza Navona on our last trip and it was arond 95 euro per night. j

I haven't been to Venice (yet) so I can't comment.

If it were me I would do London (4 nights), train to Paris (5 nights), fly to Rome (5 nights). Actually I would probably be tempted to take another night off of London because with the unfavorable exchange rate things are just more expensive.

Good luck and happy planning!
Tracy

I think we may all be just talking to ourselves - scosner posted her questions back on june 11 and has not been back since . . . . . .

I always wonder what happens to a poster like this. How they find the forum in the first place, then register to post a question, but never check back? Or maybe reads and doesn't like the advice, so doesn't say anything?

Scosner -

Well my advice is a little different, evidently, from everyone else's. My family and I did a two-week trip to London, Paris, Rome and Venice last summer and had a great time! It was my second trip to Europe but the first trip for DH, DS, and DD.

(I posted a trip report about it - click on my username and look for the post in August last year, if you're interested.)

Anyway, I'm not saying it's the theoretical ideal way to do it, or for everyone, but we didn't regret going to all four places for one minute - quite the opposite - we were very glad we didn't leave one of those places out. And due to various constraints, we flew both into and out of London, so retraced our steps on the trip. It was still wonderful. So I say if you want a quick overview of all four places, do it!

<My family and I did a two-week trip to London, Paris, Rome and Venice last summer and had a great time!>

when i first went to Europe i did similar fast moving travel and liked it a lot.

speed of travel is a personal choice and there's nothing wrong with a quick look at several places then use future trips to dwell on places you like.

IMO you need not spend a week in Paris to start to appreciate it - a few days is fine the first time.

Hey! Thank you so much for all of your advise. I really do appreciate you taking time to help me out!!! Once I got some of the first few reponses, I started re-examining my trip plans. My husband and I have decided to narrow down our trip. Now we will be doing:

London (5 nights)
Paris (4 nights)
Rome (3 nights)
Venice (2 nights)

We will fly in to London and out of Venice. We will train from London to Paris, fly from Paris to Rome and train Rome to Venice. I have been using tripadvisor, expedia and travelocity cites to help research hotels (and a few guide books). Once we get a bit closer to our leave date, I will do a bit more research on the hotels and then book! I am a huge planner and have spent many, many hours researching! I think my husband is most excited about London (I think we might do a Harry Potter tour while there). I am excited about Disneyland Paris (I have been warned it is not the greatest but do love Disney and have been to DisneyWorld tons of times- we even took our honeymoon there!). I must say that I am most excited about Rome. I studied Latin for 6 years and am quite excited to physically see what I read about! Again, thank you so much for your advise. Please post any comments on my newest revision!

Consider reordering your trip to London-Paris-Venice-Rome. That will give you a little more time in Venice, and there are more -- and more non-stop -- flights from Rome. MyAir flies from Paris-Orly (close-in, easy to get to)to Venice Marco Polo. Plus you get a break from intensive big-city sightseeing.

Also, flights from Venice to the U.S. (assuming that's where you're coming from) leave very early in the morning, and based on what I've read here on Fodor's, it's a hassle getting to the airport at that early hour. If your last stop is Rome, it'll be easier to get to the airport.

You could make a day trip to Bath from London -- it is about 2 hrs each way. But the other two on your list (Edinburgh Amsterdam) are a little to far out of the way.

Welcome! Europe includes the area between Iceland and the Urals. Between then and now read 'tour services'. If you really want to see a lot of Europe this first trip buy a package. Summer venues in Europe are jammed with vacationers. How old are you? Sports? The opera? Professions? Night clubs or parks? History buffs? A business connection in Europe? One suggestion..a canal boat trip.

I have to weigh in here. Please see my post from last year at http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34754966. I did London, Paris, Geneva, Venice, and Rome, in 12 days with my 74 year old, arthritic mother! Oh yeah, I also had a broken arm! Yes, I would have loved to have had more time but wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Seeing the Eiffel tower lit up at night was worth the price of the plane ticket. We traveled to each place by train and enjoyed the scenery and found this was an excellent time to rest.

To see the most in the shortest amount of time, do the hop-on, hop-off tour buses in each city. You can get off wherever you wish, spend as much time as you want, and simply hop on the next bus to the next destination.

I planned hotels carefully so they were closest to the train stations (most were within walking distance).

Yes, it's agressive and tiring. But well worth it.

One thing that can't be stressed enough and you will hear over and over--PACK LIGHT!

My favorite was Venice and I am planning to go back and spend more time there. But everyone has their favorites depending on what they enjoy doing and seeing.

Your hotel budget is reasonable. We stayed in decent hotels for approximately $200 a night overall (and that was for 3 people). In Rome we stayed at Hotel Domus Praetoria near the train station. The brothers/proprietors were friendly, helpful, and spoke perfect English. In Paris, we stayed at Hotel Muguet. Catherine, the owner, had a bit of an attitude but it was a decent place to stay and near the Eiffel Tower. I would have to find my notes to give you the other hotels.

Make sure you allow plenty of time to get to the train stations and orient yourself with how the process works and know that there will be a bit of a language barrier. Overall, it didn't represent as big a problem as I thought it would. None of us speak any foreign language and we got by. So many people there speak English but it still can be a bit hard to understand.

So, if you want to visit London, Paris, Rome, and Venice in 2 weeks, the answer is "yes" it can certainly be done. This was our original itinerary and I just added Geneva for one night to break up the long trip between Paris and Venice.

I would agree with the others that you want to fly open-jaw. We flew into London and out of Rome with Paris, Geneva, and Venice by train. I found the flight to be quite a bit cheaper out of Rome as compared to Venice. The times were also more desirable as Venice flights leave early morning and most have two layovers back to U.S.

Whatever you decide, you will absolutely love it!

Hey. Thanks again for the great advice. I am looking in to re-ordering the trip. Would we then fly from Paris to Venice, then train Venice to Rome then fly back to the US? I have found some good hotels (please comment if you know about these)

London: Thistle Caring Cross or Grand at Trafalgar Square
Paris: Lenox Montparnasse hotel or Jardin De L Odeon
Rome: Capo D Africa or Cicerone Hotel
Venice: Locanda Orseolo or Violono Doro

We are trying to go late May/early June but don't want to run into the bank holiday so perhaps the first 2 weeks of June (too busy?). I have heard the advice about EuroDisney, but we are big Disney fans and went to Disney World for our honeymoon- it is really not worth it? We are going to see the big, touristy sites... just to get the big picture idea of each city. I really do appreciate all of you help!

I have stayed in the Cicerone in Rome. It's a modern hotel within walking distance of St. Peter's, across the beautiful Angel Bridge.

In the other direction, there is a nice square with restaurants and ATMs.

Hi Scosner

I believe the Jardin de l'Odeon in Paris has very good early booking rates. It is fine, and I think if it is within your budget, you ought to grab it. Nice location.

Of course, Locanda Orseolo is a favorite of Fodorites. I think you would probably love it .

I am not familiar with the London hotels, but think I might prefer the location of the latter, but that would also depend on the quality of the hotel. Tough call.

Ditto Rome. I know where the Capo d'Africa is and if your interests are mainly in Ancient Rome, that's probably good for you. People seem to like that hotel. I don't know the Cicerone.

I don't know your age, but when I was about 35 I made my first fast moving trip to Europe and really loved it. I am now much older and slower, and have been several times, so I stay in one place and travel about less. But for your first trip I think you will have a ball.

&quot;<i> . . I might prefer the location of the latter, . . </i>&quot;

Not quite sure what tuscanlifeedit means about the locations of the two London hotels. They are practically next door neighbors so no difference in one way or the other.

Have not stayed in either since I normally rent flats when staying in central London. But both are in about the most central location imaginable.

I've been in public rooms at the Thistle several times but The Grand is brand new so haven't seen it. If it were me - I'd just take the one that had the best rates.

Scosner, regarding your itinerary: yes, fly into London, take the Eurostar train to Paris (get your tickets early), fly from Paris to Venice, take the train to Rome, and fly home from there. That would be the best use of your 2 weeks. And no backtracking.

Allow time in London to recover from jetlag. With your time limits, I wouldn't leave London.

Thank you all so much for the hotel help. My husband and I are both 26 (27 by the time of the trip) and are very excited! Once we both get confirmed time off of work, we will start booking... probably in February. Any more advise is completely welcome. Thanks for being so helpful!

Hello. I am trying to figure out summer plans and was wondering if any of these dates are better to travel...
- last 2 weeks in May
- first 2 weeks in June
- last 2 weeks in June
We are plannnig on avoiding travel on Memorial day and the bank holiday in London. Any thoughts... as to when things would be less crowded and (importantly) cheaper? Thanks :)

The Bank holiday is not a big issue in London. Some tourist attractions like the Tower of London may be more crowded. But more locals leave London over the holiday weekend than come in to the city.

Bank holidays ARE a big issue in places like the Cotswolds, Lake District and Cornwall that get really crowded. But in London there won't be much difference which of those week you are there.