kovsie

hi travelejan: I have learned on Fodors about DD and others. I use it with tongue firmly in check. Where I got stuck was with SO (significant other). The first time somebody wrote TTT on a thread of mine, I thought he was being sarcastic!
Thank you very much for good advice re Nafplion, I believe this is exactly what I will do.

Regarding my dear daughter & Rome: We really loved Rome and were talking about a return someday. My perpetual question is: should I return to a place I totally enjoy (Rome, London), or should I go on to new adventures every time (sri lanka, Japan, Greece).

HappyTvlr: this is a great reference, thanks so much.

stanbr: I have dreamed about your lovely photos! It makes me want to go there tomorrow. Thanks also for your trip reports - good info and a sense of joy and fun.

kovsie

Dear All

What do you think of these apartments:

https://www.vrbo.com/815390hawnerprofile

This one looks nice, but NO reviews
https://www.vrbo.com/2493373ha

This one is my favourite. One review, looks authentic
https://www.vrbo.com/1504696a

I am late and the best places had been booked, but I am positive that I will still find my perfect place waiting.

I have also contacted Happytravlr's reference above, and still waiting for their reply.

Odin

My concern with the one with no reviews is how close it is to neighbours. In summer Greeks live on their balconies, watch tv on it etc and it can be hard to get some peace and quiet (loud talking until the early hours etc). Then there are the cars and motorbikes. It's too overlooked IMO. If you choose something more traditional (eg first and last option), it should be cooler and quieter (thicker walls).

kovsie

yes Odin, I did not think of it, but yes, you are right. Thanks!!

Dogeared

I never rent a place before seeing it in person or having a personal recommendation from someone who has been there.

I have a real dislike of all third party booking sites. They are simply parasites who get between the two parties involved in a transaction.

Third party sites were in the news today for their misleading advertising.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39529584

VRBO is simply a listing site and you contact the owner directly and so they're not as bad as booking com etc. etc. Nevertheless, I never use any third party site at all.

kovsie

Dogeared: I actually agree with you. As I said above, I was nearly burned by a illegal apartment rental last year in New York City. Even VBRO can be misleading. This is why good TRs with solid info helps.

However, I do not know how to do it differently for this trip. Please tell me how you find places to stay, I will appreciate it! Do you arrive in a new city after many hours of travel and then find a place that works for you? I do not want to do that. I am feeling the pressure of having started a bit late and having to find good places SOON.

Odin

I don't agree with the sentiments expressed above regarding travel websites at all. They are not all created equal. The article is vague. no info given on the rogue websites so they can be avoided and woolly statements such as first price not same as purchase price are not helpful - guess what - that can and does happen on airline websites too.

You can't be expected to arrive in Greece with no accommodation prebooked and you can't expect to get a personal or forum recommendation for every place you want to go to or inspect the property before you reserve it. Not all accommodation booked thru websites require full prepayment, some I booked last year in Halkidiki required cash payment direct to owner on arrival, so I did inspect the apartment before paying. I don't see anyone here giving you a recommendation for a place to stay.

I've had hotels tell me there is no reservation for me and that was DIRECT booking. Of course, they did have a reservation, but they were overbooked.

Use reputable sites such as booking.com, hotels.com, hrs.com, expedia, holiday lettings etc and that is my personal recommendation.

kovsie

Thanks Odin!!

Dogeared

Why oh why do people believe the BS that third party sites feed them.

Here is the actual European Commission press release dated April 7, 2017.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-17-844_en.htm

They do not need to name those that are misleading for anyone to know that it is common practice for third party sites to be misleading. That's what the information tells you unless you are going to try and say that they are lying about what they found.

You name Booking com, hotels com, and expedi Odin. OK, I have just checked all 3 for a hotel I know. They show $96, $102 and $102 respectively. Checking with the hotel directly, I got a price of $79 for the same room on the same dates. Now you tell me how those third party sites who all claim to find you the 'best price' are not misleading you.

And where did you get the idea that, "You can't be expected to arrive in Greece with no accommodation prebooked" Why can't you?

Kovsie, I don't book ahead as I have said unless I know the hotel already or have a personal recommendation from someone I trust.

So yes, I do arrive in a place and then find a hotel. But like anything else you do, you have to go through a learning curve to get good at it.

People who pre-book all the time are good at guess what, pre-booking. People who wing it all the time are the people who get good at winging it. That's just common sense. What doesn't make sense is for people who pre-book all the time to try and tell those who wing it, why winging it won't work and pre-booking is better. That's like a plumber trying to tell a carpenter how to saw a board.

So you ask me how I would find a place to stay kovsie, well here is how I do it. First, I try never to arrive somewhere late in the day. If you arrive somewhere by noon, you have all afternoon to find a place to stay for that FIRST night. If I must arrive late in the day, then I just pre-book a room for ONE night and take a taxi from the airport/train station.

My next step depends on whether I know what area I want to stay in or whether I want to find an area that suits me. I have some general rules I use in that regard. For example, I never want to stay in a city or the most popular tourist areas. I'm always looking for a small village nearby instead. Not dead, not with no tourists at all, but a bit quieter while still having a decent location for getting around. I don't know how else to say this than that over time, you get to where you can look at a map and 9 times out of 10, pick a village.

I would never stay in Chania for example. Too busy, too noisy. But a little bit of Google time tells me that I might like Almyrida just a few miles down the coast. It was a fishing village but now makes its money from tourism like many seaside villages now do all over the Greek islands.

A little more research and I find that I would either need to take a taxi directly from the airport or a bus into Chania and then a second bus to Almyrida (no direct bus from the airport). Again, arrival time is a factor. If I arrived at the airport before noon, I'd take the buses. If I was arriving early, as I said, I would not pre-book. I would have complete confidence that I would find a place to stay once I got to the village.

http://www.completely-crete.com/almyrida.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCXvdWOIFRM

Now on to how I would find a place to stay. I'd head for a taverna and order a beer and something to eat. After eating, I'd order another beer and ask the waiter/owner if s/he knew of any self-catering apartments that s/he could recommend.

I've done a version of this many times and there are a few things to keep in mind. First, you must be talking to a Greek, not a Polish or UK worker just there for the season. Second, you must first be a customer who has bought something. This matters because when you ask for help, the person you are talking to (preferably the owner) knows that if s/he sends you to a place you like, you will probably come back to their taverna again. If they send you to a place you don't like, you probably won't. So you see, they have an incentive to help you.

So Yiorgos calls his wife Maria to the table and she asks you what kind of place you are looking for. You say you want a self-catering apartment with 2 beds (you and daughter) and not too expensive. She says she will call her cousin. You sip on our second beer while you wait. Maria's cousin, Maria shows up 15 minutes later and offers to take you to see her apartments. You ask Yiorgos if you can leave your luggage with him while you go look. This tells Maria with the apartments, that this is not a sure thing yet. That's called negotiating.

Maria takes you to see the 2 apartments she has over her little minimarket store just up the street. Clean; enough stuff in the kitchen area to get by; two beds and a balcony that just happens to have a sea view. Now you decide for how long. So you ask Maria how much for 1 night, 3 nights, a week. She quotes her prices which will differ for the longer periods you ask about. You agree to a week with the option to extend. Then you get a key and walk back for your luggage.

From arrival at the airport to unpacking your bag, perhaps 3-4 hours altogether and that includes lunch. That to me is a typical arrival on a Greek island and involves no stress at all. But I'm used to doing that kind of thing and confident that I will find a place quite easily. A pre-booker would probably think of a dozen reasons for why things might go wrong. The thing is, I've never had any of those dozen reasons happen to me.

So that's how I would do it kovsie if I were flying to Chania tomorrow. Just go, get to a village, order lunch, ask for a recommendation. But then, I like to think I am a 'slow traveller' not a tourist who pre-books.

kovsie

Doogeared: thanks for taking the time to post this comprehensive reply. Sounds like fun, and it works for you! I agree about the smaller village near the more touristed place, especially if there is some kind of public transport.
I tend to rely heavily on the reveiws written on the 3rd party websites. However, just last weekend I ended up in a less-than-perfect hotel in Fujairah that had quite a few excellent reviews. Fortunately it was for only one nigtht, but it leaves a residue of frustration! How does that happen? If there are less than 10 reviews, it can be from all the cousins pitching in to get aunti Maria's concern going. But more reviews are more difficult to manipulate. My only answer is that people have different expectaions, and that you really have to spend time reading between the lines to try working out if a place will be suitable. I usually use a site like booking dot com to find a place, and then try to deal directly with the place itself.

Heimdall

Kovsie, there are lots of fake reviews on the websites, some of them posted by owners themselves under false names and addresses. There is one not very good hotel on Santorini where a glowing review on their own website was almost word-for-word with the description of the hotel elsewhere on the website (not very clever because it was easy to spot). Do a Google search and you can find companies that actually pay people to write fake reviews.

The best source of info about hotels is from regular posters on travel forums <i>who have actually stayed in the hotels they recommend</i>. Look at their posting history and what else they write on the forums. You have to use your "BS filter" whenever reading hotel and restaurant reviews.

clausar

I find the reviews of booking.com to be closest to the reality, as only people who actually booked and stayed at the hotel through the website get the review link.

I have booked quite a few times through booking and never had a problem, but i must confess that i am also aware of problems that may arise when getting the key to a room from the reception, that is not necessarily a problem of the 3rd party site, but of the hotel itself.

Even the most expensive hotel has less privileged rooms, that will be given to the client who will not complain.

I have been working as a contract manager for major tour operators and wholesalers ( selling exclusively to travel agencies) and i happen to know most Greek hotels, but also hotels in major European cities. I know how 3rd part sites are selling their product and it is true that in some cases ( not that often though) contacting the hotelier directly might get you a better price.

But when it comes to overbooking, something that can happen everywhere during peak seasons, the client who booked directly is the first one to be sent to another hotel.....

Regarding the reviews one should be able to read between the lines, and see which complains are legitimate and which aren't...
A complain about bad service, not very clean rooms, dated bathrooms cannot be wrong, if mentioned by more clients. Complaints about the room not having tea and coffee making facilities ( which is very rare in Greece and not a standard) or steep stairs and lack of elevator in 200 old year small hotels in Nafplio, are not legitimate, and i try to ignore them .

kovsie

I read a negative review for a hotel in Dubai the other day. The people complained that 'the heat is too much' and gave the hotel 2 stars. I was at the same (excellent) hotel for a conference, and the air-con was set to 18Celcius. So yes, all filters should be in place when you go down this rabbit hole.

Heimdall

I would take anything clausar writes as "gospel", because he always provides accurate information.

TripAdvisor has a bad reputation for reviews, and when a hotel has its own website it controls which reviews are included. IMO Booking(dot)com is a good resource for finding hotels, but some of the smaller ones I prefer aren't listed with them.

stokebailey

Kovsie, I look forward to your always fun TR.

I've had good luck with tripadvisor recommendations for hotels, just by the way, though of course cross-referencing is a good idea. I'm off airbnb, after years of lovely stays, just because.

My DD and I loved Alice Inn Athens, had the Anthony Quinn suite with two bedrooms and mini-fridge. You can not beat their breakfast or their hospitality, or for that matter the location. I'm pretty sure it's OK to use their common kitchen. I"d love to go back and stay for a week, get the top floor suite with private terrace.

Dogeared

Tripadvisor is notoriouus for fake reviews and many others are no better.

An interesting story regarding Tripadvisor is in Bill Bryson's lat book, 'The Road To Little Dribbling.' He recounts how he read in a small town local newspaper in England, that a hotel restaurant he had frequented, had been shut down twice by the government health department for 'unsanitary' kitchen conditions.

Having discovered that and feeling he should warn other travellers of the facts, he went to the trouble of joining TA to post a warning. Something he had never done before.

He got an e-mail from TA saying they would not be publishing his comments as it went against their guidelines. Specifically, it was not a report of a first hand experience and they did not except second hand or hearsay (unsubstantiated reports).

You can guess what he thinks of TA. I love it that having posted anonymously under a 'online handle' obviously, TA had no idea who they were replying to and that it would end up in his next book. LOL

I read no reviews by anyone on any website. Even those that are not fake, are written by someone from their own point of view. If I want to know what someone things of a hotel, restaurant, etc. I ask them to give me their opinion in RELATION to my point of view. That's the only point of view that matters to me.

Heimdall, I would not take anything anyone says as 'gospel'. Clausar apparently works with package tour operators, that does not make him a hotel 'insider', it makes him a package tour 'insider'.

If you want to know what hotels do, you need to look at what hotel insiders say they do. For example, read the following tips by a hotel insider and in particular 2 and 7 in regards to booking with a third party vs. directly with the hotel.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/50569...ind-front-desk

Third party bookings are more likely to get 'walked' than direct bookings and they are also more likely to get the lousy room while direct bookings are more likely to get the best rooms.

Clausar is referring to tour operators and their contracts with hotels. A hotel probably won't 'walk' a guest who comes through a package tour group booking arrangement with a tour operator but will walk someone from a third party booking site like Booking com before they walk a direct booking guest. While a tour operator is in fact a 'third party', they are not the kind of third party being talked about here.

So unless you are planning to book a package tour, why add comments that refer to them into the mix? Since kovsie is talking about third party booking sites vs. booking direct with the hotel, where does that leave any comment about package tour booking? Answer, irrelevant.

My advice kovsie remains the same. Book directly with the hotel or property owner. Ignore reviews on sites like TA etc. they are unreliable.

Dogeared

Another 'insider' tip site.
http://www.thewanderlusteffect.com/h...ooking-hotels/

Note the first tip. 'Book direct' ending with 'always call'.

kovsie

Hi Stokebailey! II have - as always - enjoyed your TR about going to Greece (AND LONDON). Question: would you spend a week in Athens?

stokebailey

Thank you, kovsie! I would definitely spend a week in Athens. I don't remember whether we were there four or five days, but that wasn't enough. We were there in late February/early March, so heat wasn't a factor. Even then, it was plenty warm on top of the Acropolis. It was also off season, so tourist areas were not crowded.

I'd want to devote a day to the National Archeological Museum, and to make it to some of the museums we didn't have time for.

I'd take a tram down to the sea. I'd like to see the sunset from Cape Sounion, where Aegeus threw himself off the cliff when Theseus' sails were the wrong color. I'd visit more neighborhoods.

kovsie

And here I was planning to take Bertie Wooster on this trip. Will have to read Woodhouse and some mythology for a balanced diet.