Planning a trip to Germany in July - Please help!
 

We just realized that we could take 2 weeks off in July and are planning for the following trip. we know we could have problems getting hotel reservations, keeping our fingers crossed!
We are in our early thirties and like culture, history and natural beauty. Please let us know if this itinerary is doable and if we should be changing something:

Day 1 - Arrive Munich

Day 2,3 - in Munich (are three days too much for Munich?)

Day 4 - Train to Salzburg
Days 5, 6 - stay in Salzburg (Day 6 - day trip to bergesgaden)
(Should we be doing one more day in Salzburg?)

Day 7 - drive to Mittenwald, spend a few hours in the town and then drive to Fussen (1.5 hours)

Day 8 - See the castles and drive to Dinkelsbuhl. Spend a couple of hours and get to Rothenberg.(Should we be staying back in Dinkelsbuhl? or should we be dropping dinkelsbuhl from the itinerary? If both towns are similar, which one would you recommend?)


Day 9 - Drive to Wurzburg. Spend sometime there and then drive to Heidelberg
Day 10 - At Heidelberg
Day 11 - Day trip to Bad Wimpfen
Day 12 - Drive to Bacharach. Day trip to ST Goar
Day 13 - Day trip to Burg Eltz
Day 14 - Train to Cologne
day 15 - Stay in Cologne
day 16 - Back to FF and fly back home

I would like to buy a cuckoo clock. Which of these is a good place to look for it?


Is there a site that could give me information on the train connections within Germany? I tried bahn.de, but could not find a route map.

Any recommendations for hotels is welcome. One more point is that both of us are vegetarians (eggs - ok). Would that be a problem in Germany?


Look forward to your comments and suggestions!

Thank you.

For me, your plan includes too much things to do in the time you have.

No, 3 days in Munich are not too much. Only to visit Residenz (spelling ??) you need 5-6 hours (it is visited in one part in the morning and the second in afternoon). Then, there are the the castles to be seen.

From Salzburg you can go to the lakes also, the views are very beautiful.

I do not think that you can do all you plan for day 8. In July you can wait a lot to enter the castels.

Also day 12 - you have to arrive Bacharach, to go to hotel, have lunch, etc...the time to go to St. Goar, visit it, visit the castle will be very , very short.

I would delete Cologne in this trip, and I'll add more time for other sights.

Hi Adrian45,

Thanks for the inputs. May be we should just drive to Dinkelsbuhl or Rothenburg, stay the night there and walk around town the next day. In which case, clearly we are going to have to choose one of them and can't do both. Which one would you recommend?

Would you be able to recommend any good hotels / B&Bs to stay in any of these places. We look to spend around 100-150 euros per night. Thanks

Sorry,I was not in Dinkelsbuhl, so I can not advise.

In Bacharach we stayed at pension Lettie
email : [email protected]
In the middle of the old town, 5 min. walking form train station and from river. Clean, very good breakfast, we paid two years ago 50 euro/ night.

If you will go to Cologne, you can do a half day trip by train to Bruel 9it is 15 min. by train0. The castle is in from of train station and it is very nice.

A nice town is Koblenz, where Rhine and Mosel river meet. It is not far for cologne.

We were originally planning to stay n Koblanz and do st goar and Burg Eltz from there. Then, we changed to Bacharach. Do you think Koblanz is a better place?

>I tried bahn.de, but could not find a route map.

As far as I know there are only route plans for the federal states available on bahn.de, not for the entire country:
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/planen/rei...ten_nahv.shtml

It is IMO not a useful tool anyway. You don´t look out which route to take and where to change like you would do with a metro map - the bahn.de planner is far better for this.

Once again I have to disagree with my feloow Fodorites: You're not physically disabled are you? Then you should easily be able to do this itin. I'm twice your age and could easily do this and more.

In fact, I think you're spending too much time in Munich and Salzburg. I'm not a museum guy so I'd give Munich no more than two days to see the Marienplatz, the palaces, the Vikualienmarkt, the churches and cathedrals and to do some shopping. You can buy a cuckoo almost anywhere in Germany but they'll be the cheapest in the Black Forest region. The food and beer in Munich are fantastic.

Salzburg can be seen in a day. It's the area around Salzburg that is the most interesting to me - the Salzkammergut with its lakes and the Berchtesgadenland with its WWII remains, salt mine, Königssee boat ride and interesting shops. I'd recommend staying in a Gasthaus or farm in the Berchtesgaden area - much cheaper than Salzburg and nicer locals. Try to see one of the many, many musical events available in Salzburg. As a true Phillistine I am not much of a fan of Classical music, but I thoroughly enjoyed the chamber music concert we attended at Mirabell Palace a few years back. And if I remember correctly, it was cheap.

I think you'll really enjoy the drive from Mittenwald to Fussen if you go via Ettal/Linderhof/Plansee. Some incredible views on a clear day. If you're into nature there are some nice trails to walk. Be sure to give Downtown Füssen a chance. It's very pretty at night, especially down along the river.

Many people prefer Dinkelsbuhl to Rothenberg, but I don't get it. The former is less "spoiled" and touristy, but Rothenburg has much more to see and do. Take a picture of the Dinkelsbuhl walls and town gate, then head onward toward Rothenburg. Try to meet Georg at 8:00 pm in front of the Rathaus for the Nightwatchman Tour.

There are so many fascinating towns to visit in Germany and many are along the route you'll be taking. I particularly enjoyed Schwäbisch Hall. It's another Medieval Market town full of half timber homes and cobblestone streets. I'd skip Wurzburg and stay here instead. I didn't find Wurzburg all that thrilling and this would save you some driving time.

Heidelberg is a little over-rated but might be a good place to check out cuckoos. Lots of souvenir shops competing for your Euros so you might find a deal. This stop is on every tour company's itinerary and I suppose is a "must" for first time visitors to Germany. Other than the castle ruins and the Karl-Theodor-Brücke, there isn't all that much there. A ride along the Neckar River will allow you some wine tasting though. Heidelberg is supposed to have a pretty decent bar scene if you're into that.

The rest of your schedule doesn't seem at all strenuous to me. The gas costs will kill you, so rent the cheapest car you can. Try to share the driving chores if you can. I would use a car for this trip, but when you're doing stuff along the Rhine, take a cruise ship down the river and train back. That way you can enjoy some of the many opportunities for wine tasting and not risk getting arrested for DUI.

For hotel recommendations and other ideas, check out: http://www.bensbauernhof.com/accommodations.html

This guys has great info and travelogues from some of his fans. They might give you better suggestions than mine. My experience with German accomodations is that you can rarely go wrong. Don't stay in the chain hotels if you can avoid it - look for the little Zimmer Freis and Gasthauses. They are better priced and will make your visit so much more meorable. The breakfasts are awesome.

I agree with Zeus. I tend to travel a little faster than many on this board, but we aren't museum people so it works for us. For me, one or two days in Munich is enough. Same thing with Salzburg. Salzburg is nice but its the surrounding countryside that captures my heart, as its quite spectacular. We stay in the Berchtesgaden area and daytrip to Salzburg. Munich is fun but I guess I just prefer smaller towns and beautiful landscapes. It just depends on what you are after. I don't think you are covering too much ground though. Two weeks is a long time.

I would recommend maybe staying an extra day in Bacharach. There are lots of neat towns along both the Rhine and Mosel that are worth visiting if you have the time.

Best wishes,
Tracy

You will pay a large drop off fee to rent your car in Austria and drop it off in Germany. I would research car rental sites, and take a train back into Germany somewhere before renting the car.

Yes, the two omissions that struck me were the Salzkammergut, the scenic lake and mountain area near Salzburg, and the Mosel River. We prefer the Mosel to the Rhine, smaller, less industrial, with many cute little towns. And another vote for Rothenburg. Dinkelsbuhl is nice, but Rothenburg makes a better stay.

You could pick up your car as you leave Munich and drive to Salzburg. An interesting stop along the way is Herrnchiemsee, one of King Ludwig's, on an island in the middle of a lake.

Remember you need a vignette, a road permit, to drive in Austria. They are available at the border or at gas stations near the border.

Njwanderer,

1) Definitely skip Cologne - cathefral in the center takes half an hour to look at, everything else was destroyed during WWII (pardon my generalization). 2) Yeah, Mosel is less commercial, however: a) castles and views are "bigger" on Rhine and b) Rhine region Riesling is way better IMO. Try the one that has a little natural carbonation - outstanding. If only I can remember what this sort is called...

Zeus,

You referred to food and beer in Munich. Question #1: We're going to have only half day in Munich, and planned on walking around, visiting
Marienplatz and the Vikualienmarktm then finishing off our day in BrauHaus(spelling?). Is this a good plan? What castles you referred to in Munich? Question #2. We're going to have 1 and 1/2 days in Salzburg - wanted to see the castle, walk around, ice caves. Had to scrap ice caves due to the one piece of luggage requirement on the following flight to Greece. Could you please summarize the best of the best to do in 1.5 days there? Sorry for hijacking the board :)

We also stayed at Pension Lettie's in Bacharach. She was very helpful too. We took the boat up to St. Goar, then the train to Moselkern and hiked to Burg Eltz. We then took the train back to Bacharach. It was a very long day, but a beautiful one. I did it last summer with three teenagers. Also, we loved Rothenburg. We stayed at Gasthof Greifen, just off the square. We enjoyed staying two nights there and seeing the area without all the tourists. We also hiked outside the wall one day. We ate dinner with a group of German's practicing their English in a restaurant (talked about by Rick Steves). It was a fun, entertaining night. We did most of our traveling by train, but I did rent a car for three days while sightseeing in Bavaria.

The route maps that Altamiro pointed to are by States (Länder) because that is the way the regional trains (Nahverkehr) are organized. On that same page, click on the "Fernverkehr" link (LH side, for maps of the ICE and IC/EC lines for the entire country.

Thanks everybody for your valuable suggestions.
1 )We have decided to drop
Dinkelsbuhl.
2) The reason we gave ourselves three days in Munich was because we wanted to do Dachau. How long will the day trip to Dachau take? If it will not take more than half a day, we can wrap up Munich in 2 days. Can we do Dachau en route to Salzburg?
3) We have now decided to drive to Salzburg from Munich. Can Salzkammergut be done as a day trip from Salzburg?
4)Instead of driving to Mittenwald on day 7, we are now thinking if it is possible to drive from Berchtesgaden to Mittenwald on day 6. we were planning to see the Konigsee river as well on day 6. will it be too long a day there for us to start driving in the evening to Mittenwald? In which case, is there a town mid-way between Berchtesgaden and Mittenwald where we can stay that evening?
5) We are now thinking if it is worth taking a detour from Fussen to the black forest area before heading back up north (to Rothenburg etc.)
would it be a good idea to drop Heidelberg and do the black forest area instead? We still want to do Bacharach or Koblenz. Will it be difficult (or not worth) to get to Bacharach or Koblenz from the black forest region?
6) Should we be staying at Koblenz instead of Bacharach to do St Goar and Burg Eltz?
7) We have currently planned one day each for St Goar and Burg Eltz. Is it possible to do both in a single day?

Thank you for all your help and suggestions!

Last summer we spent 19 days in Germany. We flew into Frankfurt and immediately took a train to Bacharach where we spent two nights. The next day (first full day in Germany) we did the trip up to St. Goar by boat and then over to Burg Eltz and back in the evening by train. We traveled by train down to Baden-Baden on day three for an overnighter and time at a spa. We then took the train down to Freiburg for two nights (loved the area and went to the amusement park outside of Freiburg). Freiburg reminds me of Austin, TX. We then took the train to Rothenburg and stayed two nights there, then went down to Reutte, Austria for three nights, then onto Munich (3 nights), Salzburg(2 nights), and finished in Berlin(3 nights). I tried to do at least two nights in places so we weren't packing and moving daily. My son and I prefered the smaller towns in Germany over the cities. My daughter and her friend liked the cities more. I did like Berlin a lot! Enjoy!

I don't think you want to stay in Koblenz. With a car it's better to avoid cities. And the stretch of the Rhine between Bacharach and St. Goar is the most scenic. St. Goar is only about 45 minutes from Moselkern. Look at a mapping program like www.mappy.com. (You can drive as well as walk to Burg Eltz.)

So you could stay in a small town on the Rhine or on the Mosel. I think (this stretch of) the Rhine deserves at least a day and the Mosel (including Burg Eltz) another day or more. What's the fascination with Koblenz?

You definitely could do a day tour of the Salzkammergut from Salzburg. Research the towns and lakes in this area. Hallstatt is very cute and much-visited.

If you just want to see Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau and you have a car, you don't need to go to Fussen. There are places to stay in the valley adjacent to the 2 castles. With a car, you can also stop at Wieskirche as you go north.

I think you're trying to cram too much into your trip. You do a little research, see something interesting, try to cram it in, then research some more, add a detour, so on and so on. (I know, I know; I've done it.) You'll get more out of the trip if you go fewer places and see them in more depth. For example, Rick Steves says the Black Forest is a bore if you've already seen a forest.

Remember, there's always next time....

Starting from the Munich Hbf, Dachau is in the opposite direction from Salzburg, so it wouldn't be "on the way". However, it is not so far out of town that you couldn't do it before heading for Salzburg.

Thank you for all your inputs. We are trying to be 'disciplined' and avoid adding on new stuff but we wanted to check with others who have been there before ...

Can we pick your brains on the following questions:
* If we can stay closer to the castles than Fussen, is there any place you would recommend?
* Is there a better place (than Koblenz) you would recommend we base ourselves in, to go to St. Goar and Burg Eltz?
* Is there a place roughly midway between Berchtesgaden and Mittenwald where we can stay (we don't want to drive too late, but wanted to get closer to Mittenwald if possible that evening itself!)?

Thanks a ton for the candid feedback and tips...

Thank you very much

"Can the Salzkammergut be done in a day trip from Salzburg?"

You can see a little tiny piece of it in one day.

The Salzkammergut encompasses numerous lakes and towns. Please take a look at a map.

The lakes include Aussee, Wolfgangsee, Traunsee, Mondsee, Attersee and Fuschlsee. The beautiful little towns include Hallstatt, St. Gilgen, St. Wolfgang, Bad Ischl, Bad Aussee, Ebensee, Gosau, etc.

You could spend your entire vacation in the Salzkammergut -- it is that beautiful.

http://www.salzkammergut.at/

Bookmarking.

* If we can stay closer to the castles than Fussen, is there any place you would recommend?

Füssen is pretty close to the castles. The only places closer are Hohenschwangau, at the base of the castles, Schwangau, and Horn. All have limited accommodations. You could stay in Oberammergau, which is near Linderhof. Wieskirche isn't worth the time to stop there.

* Is there a better place (than Koblenz) you would recommend we base ourselves in, to go to St. Goar and Burg Eltz?
One place to consider is Braubach (www.braubach.de). It's at the base of another never-destroyed castle, the Marksburg, which is far easier to get to than Burg Eltz, and in my opinion, less touristized.

Larryincolorado, the one thing we really liked about Burg Eltz is the fact that it is still lived in by the family. OTOH, Marksburg is the only undestroyed castle on the Rhine which makes it unique also.

wow! you guys are amazing! Thank you.
Just a couple more questions - where could we stay on our way from Berchtesgaden to Mittenwald? (We do not want to drive back to Salzburg and then start driving the next day to Mittenwald.)

Also, we have now decided to cut down a day from Munich. (will drive to Dachau and then to Salzburg from there). Where do you think this one day is better spent?
Any ideas for concerts in Salzburg that we can go to?

Thanks!!

I'm not sure I understand your question correctly.

It's only about a 2-1/2 hour drive from Berchtesgaden to Mittenwald. If you want something in between, Kufstein, Austria is about half way.

http://www.greatmirror.com/index.cfm...uresize=medium

Well, yes, there are limited places to stay at Hohenschwangau adjacent to Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau Castle. But there are limited places to stay everywhere. We stayed one night at Hotel Muller; it scores well on www.tripadvisor.com. You can go to Hohenschwangau in the afternoon and hit Neuschwanstein early before the buses come.

But the OP plans a trip in July. Kinda late for booking the ideal hotel.

As for where to stay near St. Goar and Burg Eltz, any of the small towns along the Rhine or Mosel are nice. We stayed in a castle, the Castle Hotel Schoenburg overlooking the Rhine at Oberwesel: www.hotel-schoenburg.com. Next time I'd stay on the Mosel, maybe at Hans Lipman's in Beilstein, which is much recommnded.

Actually, it's Haus Lipmann in Beilstein. We stayed there a couple of years ago and it is a very nice place.

http://www.hotel-haus-lipmann.com/

We went to Germany for 2 weeks last August. We stayed at Romantic Pension Albrecht, in Hohenschwangau. It is quite close to the castles. We got reservations for the castles first thing in the morning before the tour buses came into to town. One of the rooms had a great castle view. The other rooms had an ok castle view.

We also stayed in St Goar. You can walk to Rheinfels Castle from town.

Staying in Rothenburg is well worth the time. The night watchman tour is a must do.

I second the notion to buy a cuckoo clock in the Schwarzwald (Black Forest). Otherwise, look for one in Rothenburg... it's known for buying traditional German souvenirs. We're traveling through Rothenburg (staying overnight) and on through Dinkelsbuhl on our drive to Munich. It's very close (35 minutes from Rothenburg to Dinkelsbuhl) and you don't necessarily have to get out of the car. If it looks similar, keep driving. Rothenburg is mostly closed to traffic. Park outside and walk in... all attractions are within 15 minutes of each other. I would limit both Munich and Salzburg to 2 days each, unless you want to see every museum and church. You could add the extra day or two to the Rhine Valley area, and take a boat cruise on the Rhein River. Cologne is also a large city. You may want to add an extra day there. Don't forget about your travel time between cities.

You can't go wrong anywhere in Germany. 3 nights is not too long in Munich, considering you are going to have just flown over and might have jet lag. If you do like museums the Deutches Museum in Munich is one of the best. Do see Dachau. It is close to Munich.
Be aware that the shops in Mittenwald close in the middle of the day.
If your budget permits, I would think about renting a car rather than using the train. There is so much to see outside of the large cities.
Check out Romantik Hotels. Usually small hotels in historic buildings. Most are in your budget.
In Rottenburg is Katie Wolfhart Christmas Shop for Cuckoo. Tourist trap but good selection.
Other suggestions;
Lindau on Lake Constance and a boat ride up the Rhine.
If you can't see everything, you'll just have to go back!

Kvilia-sorry for the late response:

Your idea of visiting the Marienplatz and Viktualienmarkt followed by a visit to the Hofbrauhaus pretty much covers the major "downtown" attractions. But there is much more to see and do in that same area - The Frauenkirche is one of the most famous landmarks of Munich. If you're in decent shape, hike up to the spire of the Peterskirche to get awesome views of the Marienplatz just below or gaze out into the distance and catch a glimpse of the Alps. The Dallmayr deli is also in this part of town.

The primo palace in Munich is Schloss Nymphenburg accessible by bus #41. This was the Wittelsbach's version of a Versailles-style hunting lodge. It is immense with beautiful gardens and reflecting pools. You could easily spend hours here. Within the Nymphenburg complex you'll find a variety of buildings each of which served as some sort of royal dwelling at one time or another.

Closer to center city is the Residenz, the Wittelsbach's official home most of the year. It too could keep you occupied for the better part of the day. However, much of the interest both of these palaces offer is represented in their many museums. Like I said, I prefer to enjoy the outdoors, like the gardens and building facades, with maybe a basic tour through the major sights inside the actual buildings.

The one museum that I did greatly enjoy on a freezing snowy January day was the Deutsches Museum. It is dedicated to technology and scientific concepts. Lots of hands-on stuff to play with.

Hi,
I also don't see a need to stay anywhere between Berchtesgaden and Mittenwald.
Dinkelsbuhl and Rothenburg... Rothenburg! Touristy but beautiful. The Nightwachmans tour at 8 pm is excellent!
You may want to consider staying along the Mosel instead of the Rhine. My opinion, the Rhine was nice but the Mosel is simply beautiful. We loved Cochem as our "base" town. Burg Eltz is very close by.
Again, just my opinion... Marksburg was a great castle, but nothing compares to Burg Eltz and it's setting in a forest. Stunning.

Where to stay closer to Neuschwanstein... Fuessen is less than 10 minutes from Neuschwanstein.

We thought the Wieskirche (about 40 min. drive north of Fuessen) was magnificent!

In response to where to spend the extra day cut from Munich... wow. That's a matter of preference. Either Salzburg (to explore the lake area or Berchtesgaden area), Mittenwald, Fuessen or the Rhine and/or Mosel. Me, I'd stay an extra night in Mittenwald.

If you're interested, our trip report to some of these places with our pic's are at:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35089110

Hope this helps.

Paul

We have stayed on both the Rhine and the Moselle Rivers. I think Paul is right in that the Moselle is prettier than the Rhine. The Rhine is very busy with boat and commercial traffic. The thing about the Rhine is the castles. There are so many.

If you had time to do both, that would be great. But if you only have time to do one, then I agree with Paul that you should do the Moselle.

I'm sure Cochem would make a good base. We have stayed in Beilstein (very small, beautiful but quiet), not far from Cochem, and Bernkastel-Kues (absolutely amazing little town) but further from Burg Eltz. If you are short on time, then Cochem makes good sense.

At Munich we stayed at Hotel Uhland on Uhlandstrasse. Only thing was that the station was not as close but otherwise lovely. Dachau is worth the trip. Can spend days in Munich though visiting the museums....and after an afternoon at the beergarten, well, thats one day gone!

Agree that Rothenburg has more but Dinkelsbuhl is lovely too. We stayed at a BNB outside the walled city run by Kate as I recall. Lovely lady with great english. Check previous posts on Rothenburg. Fodors the book has some great tested dining recos so do consider trying those.

Fuessen was ok - Wieskerche is better. Castles were great.

In Salzburg, we loved the sound of music tour and would do it all over again! Great city to walk around and eat a nibble here and there...from the sachertorte to strudels!

Bad wimpfen was a delight - but a day is more than enough...cobbled streets and half timbered houses. But do consider doing it another time...

At Baden-Baden we stayed at an apartment and were very comfortable. That was our base to explore the B-F area and also did a trip to Triberg for the cuckoo clocks. Its hard to choose, must admit...

Enjoy!!

I too agree with staying on the Mosel as opposed to the Rhine. The Rhine has some amazing castles and nice towns, but the Mosel is prettier and the towns smaller. We based ourselves in Cochem and were pleased with our choice, although we too loved Bernkastle-Kues and Beilstein. We were not impressed with Koblenz.

Best wishes,
Tracy

Cuckoo Clock: A few tips on the clock to avoid buying one that you could get as easily in the US.

1. The shiney gold chains will not stay that way. Buy a clock with dull chains and you will be happier long term.

2. Try to find one with carved wooden weights. The clocks in the US are usually the pressed kind that look cheap. The good clock shops will have the carved wooden weights sold separately. You just have to ask. They are not that much more but look 200% better. Americans do not know to ask as they have probably never seen them.

3. Check the inside. Plastic bad. Metal good. Have the seller tell you about the inside and compare to other clocks.

4. Check the clock's roof. Flat, plain wood on the roof is not great. Looks cheap. The good clock will have individual shingles.Some will have a carved look and not individual. Both look much better than flat plywood.

5. How long do you want the clock to play prior to lifting the weights? There are one day clocks and seven day clocks. Ask. If you get the one day clock put it where you will see it daily. Remember that it will have to be hung high to give the weights room to drop.

6. Find out if there is a switch that turns off the cuckoo without turning off the time. You get used to the sound...your visitors will not if staying overnight. Ask for this for sure.

7. Kathe Wohlfardt in Rothenburg has nice clocks. There are also good shops in the Black Forest area as well as Garmisch. Check on shipping instead of carrying it back.

Just do your hmeowork so you do not end of with something that can be bought today in the US in WalMart. The shop owners will educate you if you let them. Otherwise they will let you pick out the one you like that may not be the best clock for the money.

BOTTOM LINE: Why lug the clock home that is sold in your local drugstore?

HOTELS:

SALZBURG: Bristol Hotel. We stayed there in June 07. Great spot, reasonable and friendly staff. Yes, you need more time in this town and the surrounding area.

ROTHENBURG: Markusturm Hotel, Reichs Kuchenmeister. Both reasonable and good value. You want to stay here, not Dinkelbuhl and you want to stay within the walls, not outside the walls of Rothenburg.

The Reichs Kuchenmeister has a good restaurant also and outdoor patio. It is next to St Jackobs church that dominates the city. Easy to find.

HEIDELBERG: Stay in the OLD TOWN area. Good spot is Zur Backmulde. They have a web site.

Good paperback reference book is Kathy Brown's German Inns and Itineraries. We use this to find new places. She also has a web site.