Planning a month long trip around Europe
 

Hello,

Currently my friend and I are planning a month long trip around Europe. We are going to arrive in Paris on June the 14th and leave again from Paris on July 13th. We have decided to visit six different cities in different countries. These are the six cities we have decided on:

- Paris
- Rome
- Berlin
- Amsterdam
- Athens
- Either Geneva or Zurich

Currently we are trying to decide whether or not to fly or ride the train around. Flying might be a little bit more expensive but it would also save us a lot of time. Are there any recommendations from here as to which is better? Also if we are going to fly how far in advance should we try and book the flights? Should we try and do it now or wait until we are in Paris.

Thanks.

None of those cities are really very near to each other, so I'd recommend either flying or taking night trains (Athens almost certainly needs a flight). Definitely book ahead for flights; prices go up as the time gets closer. A good resource for intra-European flights is www.skyskanner.net; it compares pretty much all of the low cost airlines, although it certainly doesn't hurt to also compare the national carriers, as sometimes they can be either cheaper or fly from an airport much closer to the city center, which can make it cheaper considering the costs of getting to the airport, and the time saved. For night trains, bahn.de (click on English) has all the itineraries in Europe, though you'll have to go to the national companies to get the actual prices. The advantage of night trains is that you save the price of a hotel room and do your travelling while you're asleep anyway, so you're not missing out on any sightseeing, plus trains usually show up near the middle of the city, as opposed to out in the boonies like most airports.

This itinerary raises a few serious questions.

1) Why only huge cities? Why none of the countryside and mountain regions and smaller towns that make up so much of each country's charm?

2) Why Athens? It's so far away, takes so long to get there by train and ferry, or - if you fly - costs so much money, and you'd be there for barely a few days - leave Greece for another trip when you do nothing but Greece: Athens and a couple of the island, and give it two weeks at least.

3) If you were to take the trains, this schedule, even minus Athens, would still be too tight. So I'd skip Berlin.

4) Neither Geneva nor Zuerich, as cities go, are the bees knees - it's what's between them that's worth seeing, but that takes a week as an absolute minimum to make it work.

5) You can probably fly cheaper than take trains, but you have to first revamp your schedule so that you get more out of this trip, mix it up, stay longer in one place and roam the surroundings, then nail the flights before fares go through the roof.

You need a good map, and the train schedules from (for all of Europe but minus prices)
http://plannerint.b-rail.be/bin/quer...p;L=profi& and, for budget flights,
www.flyscanner.net.

Plan on traveling really light, read up on all that good stuff like packing minimally and being pickpocket-proof.

WK

Hi K,

You will lose about 3 days in transferring between cities. That leaves you about 4 days per city.

If you dropped Athens, you would have 5 days per city and a more pleasant journey.

((I))

Actually sometime the european budget airlines are much cheaper than trains. I think a combination of both would be best for what you want to do.

Your distance are quite long, Athens is nowhere near Amsterdam for example, so a flight would be necessary.

While Paris to Geneva, is less than 5 hours so a train would be good.

Agree with above - if you want to go to Switzerland Geneva (somewhat cute but a sizeable city) and Zurich (somewhat less cute) are not the places to go.

Instead do either a smaller city with good access to day trips (like Lucerne) or do a mix of a smaller city and a small town up in the mountains (if you want to do any hiking). This will let you have access to what makes Switzerland Swiss - the lakes, mountains, adorable small villages etc.

Also - for that part of the trip you might want to do car rather than train - letting you go to as many cute, small places as you want - as your whim and the weather allows.

For the other cities(Paris, Rome, Amsterdam) it's easier to do one or two day trips to see things - but for Switzerland I really feel a car is a big advanage.

Also - agree to drop Athens - will take a lot of time and money - and you won;t see - IMHO some of the best parts of Greece- the islands.

(In fact - if it was me I would do a road trip - pick up the car in Paris and head to Amsterdam, Berlin, Switzerland and drop the car and return home from Rome. An open jaw ticket won;t cost any more.)

The plan was to spend about 4 days in each city, we know it isn't much time but we feel as though it is the best we can do in a month. This is why we picked the major cities because we didn't feel as though we had enough time to really explore the countryside.

It looks like we are leaning towards flying so we can save that extra little bit of time and spend more time exploring the cities.

As for Athens... We know it is really out of the way, but it is one of the cities that we really wanted to do. It was one of my friend's top places to go since she wants to check out all of the ruins. If we do cut it out though should we replace it with another city? If so any reccomendations? Or should we be skipping Switzerland and replacing one of those cities?

Our plans are still in the early stages and so we are very open to any reccomendations you guys have. PS, we are both in our twenties and don't have a large amount of income to spend, so we can't do anything overly expensive.

There is no good way to do this, particularly if you are arriving & departing from Paris. That being the case it would be much more reasonable to concentrate on Paris/Amsterdam maybe London & the Belgian Coast/Bruges ?

In your shoes, I would skip Athens (too far) and both Geneva and Zurich (too boring) then you'd have 1 week in each of 4 cities, a much more fun itinerary, and would cost less too.

If you really want to see Switzerland I encourage you to pick other towns or cities to visit. I really love the area outside Geneva along Lac Leman with the towns of Lausanne, Vevey, and Montreux for example.

Flying is quicker but what of Europe do you see - trains go thru cities, by small villages, scenic areas, farmlands - air you see airports -good for veteran travelers who have seen Europe but first time i'd do a fair amount of train and mix in some long flights like ending up in Athens and flying back to paris. I'm a train fan so an biased - i recommend you get the free European Planning & Rail Guide (go to: www.budgeteuropetravel.com to request one) and read about train travel and various passes - a ton of info not just on rail travel. www.ricksteves.com also has good info. For cheap flights: www.whichbudget.com - the two giants of discount flights are www.ryanair.com and www.easyjet.com.

If you haven't purchased plane tickets, but an open jaw instead of a Paris round-trip. Into Amsterdam and out of Rome, would be good.

If you take anything of the list do NOT replace it with other places, everyone's trying to get you to streamline things a bit. This will also save you money.

Another point to remember is that airports are most often outside the city, while train stations are centrally located. So your 2 hour flight really takes about 1/2 a day to accomplish.

I'm not sure if this is your first trip to Europe, but it sounds as if it is. A long time ago I did four weeks in six countries with a Eurailpass (The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, and France). Got a super cheap flight RT to Amsterdam. It was my first trip to Europe.

All in all, it was enjoyable, but a lot of work and a lot of traveling. Primarily big cities. I have some memories and impressions, but much of it is a blur. I've traveled back to Europe many times, but now I'm more likely to spend up to a week in one location staying in two or three places per trip, mixing big city and countryside.

There are budget airlines that make flying more affordable, but flying is more time consuming than it appears. You need to get from the city to the airport, allow an hour or two prior to departure, and then you need to get from the airport back into another city. By using the train you will travel from one city right into another city, seeing scenery along the way. Obviously, there are benefits to both modes of travel.

I also suggest you drop Athens and save it for another visit when you can get to the islands. To go to Greece and see only Athens would be a shame, and it's such a far distance.

I agree with the idea of landing in one city and flying home from another. That will save you valuable time and effort.

If Greece is really important to this trip, you could do 10 days there. And split the rest of your time (20 days) between Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin.

Skipping Rome, Geneva, Zurich.

here's another to think about this trip -- although once you get into the details (train connections and expense) it might need adjustment:

Week one:

Fly to Greece, take the ferry from Greece to Bari, then the train to Rome.

ow you've reached the end of week one.

Week two:

Tour Rome. Go to Pisa.

Week three:

Take he train to just east of Milan where you can catch the scenic train to Switzerland. At end of Swiss scenic train journey, take another train to Berlin. Tour Berlin.

Week Four:

Take train from Berlin to Amsterdam. Tour Amsterdam. Take Train to Paris.

Go home.

I have no idea how much such a trip would cost, presuming you'd be purchasing Eurail passes and staying in B&Bs.

Flying cheap air sounds appealing but you would need to figure out how much time in takes you to get to the airports where cheap air companies operate. It's often just as time consuming as getting on a train in a city center and getting off in another city center.

I never did understand those whirlwind grand tours of big cities. I suggest picking 2 contigious contries and truly enjoying them. I would pick the Alps and Italy.

Hi K,

>Athens... was one of my friend's top places to go since she wants to check out all of the ruins.<

Rome has lots of ruins, too. :)

However, if Athens is a must, I suggest that you build the rest of your trip around that and see 3 other places.

I think, though, that you will find that Athens raises the cost of your visit significantly.

Have you considered London (6 nights), Amsterdam (4 nights), Paris (7 nights), Venice (4 nights), Rome (6 nights), in that order?

Fly into London, fly to Amsterdam, train to Paris, fly to Venice (www.myair.com), train to Rome, fly home.

See www.whichbudget.com for cheap flights in Europe.

See www.kayak.com for overseas flights.

Have a nice visit.

((I))

But if Kaladran had come here and said: "I'm spending two weeks in Europe, one week in Italy and one week in France" you probably would have been fine with that. She would have picked to countries and spent a week in each truly enjoying them.

I think they actually can take a week's vacation in one area. A week in another. A week in another. A week in another.

My concern is actually that 21st century cities, especially capitals, have all become so internationalized and globalized that it really isn't a sharp enough difference. Maybe it's the reason I sort of hope they can find a way to visit both Amsterdam and Greece, because those two cities are still rather parochial.

Posts crossed, ira. My remarks were in response to bob.

Kaladran - I think someone else mentioned this, but are your flights booked yet? You'd be much better off to book an open-jaw flight - into Paris and out of one of your other cities.

Having said that, don't let the shortage of time you have allotted for each location cause you to stick to big cities. It is NEARLY as easy to get a feel for smaller towns, mountains, country-side in a trip like this as it is to stay in the larger cities.

Instead of Geneva or Zurich, I would suggest basing yourself in Interlaken. It's a beautiful and inexpensive train ride from the larger cities, and you can make day trips via train to see the mountains... they're right there!

I personally don't have any issues with a whirlwind tour, but just make sure you've prepared yourself to open your mind in order to absorb a LOT of things. Keep a journal and take lots of pics to help remember everything. And be flexible.

Yes, I agree with that advice, especially in Switzerland. But I greatly prefer Spiez to Interlaken (20 minutes apart).

It also might be that one could save a lot of money staying just outside Amsterdam (another country with a good rail system).

I don't think it works well for Rome, however. One really must be in the city. Paris, too, although staying someplace unfashionable like La Defense might help the budget.

Thanks for all the advice guys. After talking it over for a bit we have decided to cut out Athens and Zurich. Leaving us with just Paris, Rome, Berlin, and Amsterdam. Our flight to and from Paris is booked because we got an excellent deal from Air Canada for the round trip tickets. We also have now booked tickets taking us from Paris to Rome, and then Rome to Berlin. Unfortunately we are having some difficulty finding flights going from Berlin to Amsterdam, and the Amsterdam to France. So we may have to take the train for those legs of the trip. By slowing it down a bit we can hopefully spend some time exploring the big cities and then check out some of the surrounding areas as well. We are purposely skipping London because we have both seen it before, and as much as we'd love to go back there we would rather experience something new.

Spending a week per city does sound fairly appealing and a bit less rushed. We were just stuck in the initial mindset that we wanted to try and see as much as possible. But with the schedule we were planning it seems like our brains may have imploded. Also we might luck out in Amsterdam I have some family there who we might be able to stay with for a bit, which would help bring down costs significantly.

This all being said now, what are the things we should try not to miss in these cities? We have been going through the various tourist sites and looking around, but it is always good to get a honest opinion from people.

In Amsterdam, don't fail to take a canal tour on a boat. I HATE tours, and avoid them like the plague, but this one is the only way to see how beautiful and varied Amsterdam is. It's a very different view from the water. You can put your fingers in your ears if you don't want to listen to the pre-recorded explanatory talk, but you'll want to look. A very sophisticated friend of mine talked me into going, and I'm glad I agreed.

If you are in Rome for a week, don't fail to go to Trastevere to see the church of Santa Maria and enjoy the neighborhood, and do not fail to visit Porta d'Ottavia at night. There are restaurants in that area too that serve the Roman specialty of fried artichokes, which is another reason to go.

In Paris, do not fail to see St. Denis and to take the Batobus. You should also see Ste. Chappelle.

I've never been to Berlin, but I hope to by the end of the year.

Cool thanks. We are looking around at various hotels seeing where to stay, and then plan what to do! I don't know if it has sunk in that I'ma ctually doing this yet. Either way it is really cool.

So far in Paris I really want to see the Pere Lachaise cemetary, and try and see at least some of the Louvre. For Berlin I've heard it has one of the biggest zoo's int he world so I would like to check that out. We will definatly look into that canal tour in Amsterdam, we'll try and sit as far from a speaker as possible.

I like zoos, and we went to the Berlin one, but I didn't think it was particularly large, special, or had anything very unique.

Oh... Well thats not very good news. From the information I found online it has the largest collection of animals in the world.

Paris has a nice little zoo, it is well worth a stop. Still not sure about the Berlin portion (?). If I were to get on a plane for that type of distance I would go to Prague instead. If you are going to Rome, it would be a shame to skip Florence (which I would prefer over Rome anyway). Amsterdam can be done in a short period of time as well.

Easyjet flies Berlin-Schoenefeld to Maastricht which is under 3 hours from Amsterdam by train. You might want to rent a car for one-way drop-off and take a day or two across the countryside to get to Amsterdam - it's about time you get outside of the big cities on this trip, and this would be an opportunity. If you book right now, you might get in very cheaply on Easyjet.

www.transavia.com and Air Berlin fly to Amsterdam - did you check them out?

WK

I, too, wonder why Berlin? As far as my opinion it certainly isn't the best of Germany.

Around Europe?

Hi nessundorma
>Posts crossed, ira. My remarks were in response to bob.<

I realized that. No offense taken.

Hi K,

>...difficulty finding flights going ... Amsterdam to France.<

I think that the train from Amsterdam to Paris is more convenient than flying.

See www.voyages-sncf.com

((I))

hey, much better plan! It's great fun to see things like this take shape.

For the two legs you are missing are there overnight trains available? I think your mostly flying works well, but a train ride or two might make for a nice change of pace. Traveling by train in Europe is big fun, imo.

With a week in each city, I would not stress terribly about pre-planning activities. All I ever do ahead is plane tickets and hotel reservations.

For the rest... you can read a guidebook on the plane/train ride, pick up free information at the local tourist bureaus or from your hotel lobby, buy a weekly entertainment guide for the city for up-to-date events. I know many folks here plan down to the minute but it isn't necessary for a successful trip.

I definitely agree that planning down to the minute is not necessary, although for some of us, it makes us rather more comfortable (although having a week in each place helps slow the pace down and be more spontaneous, take a day or so to relax, etc.).

At a glance it looks like the high speed train from Amsterdam to Paris is only a 4 hour trip with frequent availability.

Berlin to Amsterdam 6-7 hours. If an overnight train is available that route, I really think that's a fun thing to do ONCE during a trip (it's a bit of an adventure I wouldn't want to do it too often).