Planning a 3 week trip for 2017
 

Hello, my husband and I are both teachers and first time travelers to Europe. We are planning to celebrate our 20 year anniversary in Europe next summer; our current goal is to be there for three weeks. We are open to all types of experiences: we hope to visit museums, enjoy the architecture, and spend time outdoors at markets and hiking. I realize summer is the busy "tourist" season, but as teachers, we are unable to visit any other time. We are hoping to visit Ireland (4ish nights), Paris (4ish nights), and spend the rest of the trip in Italy. While I feel comfortable purchasing airfare there and back and booking AirB&B's, I'm a nervous about travel between countries. Is there a preferred order to visit these countries? Should we fly or use the train? How far in advance should I book travel between countries? When should I start purchasing tickets for museums? While I am completing hours of research, I would appreciate any advice for new travelers. Thank you!

I know many people on this forum dislike Rick Steves but I find his books full of good advice for first time travelers. You can find his books at your local library, bookstore or online.

If you can, book "open jaw" flights flying in to one of your locations and out of another so you don't have to waste time and money backtracking.

I think you will want to figure out your "must see" locations in Ireland and Italy which will give you a better idea of how to plan your trip.

If you are able to go early in the summer, I would start in Italy which gets very warm in July and August and then head north. You might consider flying into Rome (if you plan to visit there), flying out of Ireland, flying to Paris from whichever location you last visit in Italy and flying from Paris to Ireland. You haven't stated which locations you plan to visit in Ireland or Italy so it is hard to advise on transportation.

Fly into Ireland - fly to Paris like on Ryan Air or other cheapo airline

Paris to Italy - take overnight train to Venice (www.thello.com) or long day train to Milan and on or of course fly.

Once in Italy trains are best for anyplace - booking early can save money - www.trenitalia.com is the official site of Italian Railways. For lots of train info check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted train tickets and www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

If you can leave in early or mid-June I'd go to Italy first as July and August there can be mobbed - Paris is always mobbed and Ireland should be fine at anytime.

I also would recommend hotels rather than AirB&Bs for first time travelers, particularly in Italy and Paris, but that is just my preference. B&Bs are well established in Ireland. The advice and services you would be able to get from a hotel plus the assurance you are renting from legal entities would be worth it to me.

I like to travel with the weather, too, as KTtravel suggests. It only makes sense to avoid the possibility of too hot (or cold) weather when you can. So northward as summer approaches, southward as winter does. It's not foolproof but it is all we can do about it.

Others here will help with logistics but I'd like to recommend, if you can manage it, staying longer. And staying longer at each stop, going on day trips to expand your possibilities for seeing more. You may very well find, as I have, that there are a number of advantages to slowing down and not many that I've been able to discern over the years to speeding up.

A week each in Ireland & in Paris and at least 2 weeks in Italy would make an outstanding trip, as long as you don't go crazy changing locales in Italy too much. As you plan keep in mind the time it takes to go from one place to another, write it in to your proposed itinerary so you don't believe you have more time than you do.

The man in Seat 61 has a great idea for getting from Paris to Italy involving a train to Milan, overnight there, and then the train to Venice, which gives you the chance to see Switzerland from the train, which is certainly something that i would try to squeeze into a 3 week trip - I'll try to find it.

And here it is:

you will see the link to the Bernina express on the webpage I have linked to.

I agree that for two people, unless you were planning on staying a long time in one place [a week or more] it would probably be easier to book a hotel or B&B.

Personally, were it not for the weather issue, I would start in Ireland and end in Rome. a few days in Ireland will give you time to wind down and start to acclimatise to our funny little european ways, without the culture shock of Rome, which can take some people by surprise. but who knows whether Rome would be hotter in July or August in any particular year? it's a lottery really.

so I would go Ireland - fly to Paris - train via Switzerland to Venice - somewhere in the countryside or by a lake to give yourselves a break and do some hiking - Rome.

I would travel to Italy first, then Paris and Ireland. If you are flying from North America, the flight to Italy is longer, but as you plan to be there longer you will be over jet lag before you have left Italy, and the flight home from Ireland will be shorter.

Once you can determine what places you want to visit, you will be able to determine how many nights you will want in Paris and Ireland, as well as Italy.

You can travel by train in Italy, but flying to Paris takes less time than the train. I would rather spend time seeing Paris than being on a train. Also remember that Paris in August means that many restaurants are closed as the Parisians go on vacation.

It you intend to go to Milan and see the Last Supper book as early as you can, as these tickets go fast. The Vatican Museum can be super crowded, so try to get an evening ticket. Museum ticket prices are the same no matter when you book, you just want to be sure that you will get tickets for what you want to see that where you are booking for a time slot.

train tickets are cheaper when you book early, consult the website the man in seat 61

If you are only staying 4 nights in Paris or Ireland, consider the location of an apartment and whether a hotel would meet your needs. Hotel ratings in Europe will take into consideration whether there is a bar or restaurant or other things that may not matter to you. but be sure to check wherever you stay that there is air conditioning, particularly in Italy and Paris and even in Ireland, where you may encounter the odd heat wave.

happy planning.

You can travel by train in Italy, but flying to Paris takes less time than the train. I would rather spend time seeing Paris than being on a train.>

this is how the overnight train saves time even over flying which inevitably takes half a day or more.

You can travel by train in Italy, but flying to Paris takes less time than the train. I would rather spend time seeing Paris than being on a train>>

really it depends what you are seeing from the train, IMO. if you plan well, it can be as much part of your holiday as any other sightseeing, plus it's a lot more fun than flying with all the hanging about at the airport, getting through security, waiting for you luggage at the other end, etc. etc.

or do what Pal suggests and take the overnight train, thus saving a night's accommodation.

Thank you all for the great advice. I will definitely plan to start our trip in Italy in hopes of escaping the July heat. Since we plan to stay in Italy for at least a week, do you recommend renting a car? It seems like we are likely to stay in each city for 2-3 days before moving on.

Which cities are you planning to visit in Italy?

or do what Pal suggests and take the overnight train, thus saving a night's accommodation.>

that is unless you have trouble with noise and sleeping - always a modicum of noise from inside and outside the train - I've never had a problem in taking literally hundreds of overnight trains but others arrive wiped out with lack of sleep -multi-person couchettes can especially have loud snorers, etc.

KTtravel, we plan to spend time in Rome, Florence, and perhaps Venice.

For Rome, Florence, and Venice, a car is a disaster. Fly into Rome, train to Florence and Venice. If you plan to see the hill towns of Tuscany, a car is a must, but don't pick it up until you leave the big city for good. Assuming you limit yourselves to the "big three" (Rome, Florence, Venice), I recommend 4 (3 days), 3 (2 days) and 2 nights (1 day), respectively. The first day in Rome is shot with jet lag, arrival, customs and checking in. This consumes 11 of your 21 days. I recommend you fly Venice to Paris. Check Skyscanner and Whichbudget websites for cheap intra-Europe one-way flights Venice to Paris and Paris to Dublin/Shannon. Fly home from Ireland. You will have 5 days (roughly) in Paris (not nearly enough, but fine for a first trip) and 5 days for Ireland. NO CAR in Paris but you will need one in Ireland for anything other than 5 days in Dublin. Recommend Dan Dooley (I think full insurance coverage in included in the price).

I've visited dozens of Tuscan and Umbrian hill towns easily without a car -buses and trains are frequent and cheap.

I've also driven around Tuscany and found I did not care that much for it - two-lane roads with RVs, etc and parking a bit hard to find in some hill towns except at the bottom of the hill!

But I can see getting some Agriturismo place or accommodation in countryside or small village with poor public transportation options and needing a car - just to tool around in and on a longer trip but for a few days only you can get to many many hill towns by train or bus and leave the driving to others.

I found, long ago, may not be true today, that in rural areas of Italy the best time to drive was between noon and 3- during the long midday break when few other cars and especially trucks, vans, etc were on the road. Other times I felt tedious driving - maybe things have improved.

I prefer to set my own schedule in the rural parts of Tuscany. OP can choose for him/herself. Some people are afraid of driving in a foreign country where they are unfamiliar with the signage, etc. With the GPS systems available today, I believe most semi-adventurous tourists would like to come and go as they please, and stop when/where they want instead of being dependent on the schedules of buses and trains. YMMV.

There are legal Bed and Breakfasts in Paris, but they tend to be a little expensive. Here's the website which includes B&Bs licensed by the City of Paris: http://hotesqualiteparis.fr/fr/index.php

The government has just adopted a new law which takes effect in mid-September 2016. The law, which seeks to reduce tax-evasion, requires all vacation rentals to acquire a registration number from the City before they can be listed on the internet. It will take time for owners to be approved and acquire this license number, so I would bet on a sure thing and choose a hotel, instead.

Hotels have air-conditioning, and you will definitely need this when you come to Paris in July.

If you're on a budget, there are many hotels in interesting neighborhoods in Paris which will fit the bill. Most first-time visitors would be happy in the Latin Quarter, which is the "quintessential Paris", centrally-located and full of atmosphere.
Look for hotels with Postal Codes 75005 or 75006. The area near Metro Odeon is a good place to start.

If you require kitchen facilities, you should take a look at Citadines or Adagio apart'hotels.

Or, you might think about staying in a hostel - many have private rooms available. It's also a good way to meet like-minded people.

Be careful when booking fights Paris - Dublin or Dublin - Paris - RyanAir flies to an airport called Charleroi which is a good distance from Paris (I think it may even be Belgium!) Aer Lingus does pretty cheap fares and flies to Charles deGaulle which is a lot more central.

Ryan Air's Paris area airport is usually Beauvais ain't it? Still an hour by train northwest of Paris - Ryan air buses to Paris I believe in conjunction with flights.

Yes, it's Beauvais, not Charleroi (which is in Belgium) - at least it was a few months ago - but landing in Beauvais means a 60- to 70-minute bus ride to the Porte Maillot (I believe, or one of the Portes), and then you have to get yourself into Paris proper. Huge PITA IMO.

I would check easyjet and such airlines for dirt cheap fares, a few(maybe 2-4months) in advance.
For the museums, I book a week in advance(but the Alhambra in Spain maybe an exception, where you need to book in advance).

RyanAir give great deals from Paris to Dublin (for about 20 euro each) at times, but you have to look at their sale section every week or two!

Discount airlines are notorious for added fees - like seat reservations even on some - Ryan Air's boss even wanted to a few years back put pay toilets on his planes - that was shot down quickly but shows the strategy of added fees. Always ask what is the bottom line fare - everything you need included.

I wouldn't take the train from Italy to Paris. Fly Easy Jet from Venice or Rome (depends which city you fly into initially) to Paris Orly airport (closest airport). The night train isn't that great (there have been negative reviews on this board) and not all that convenient.

Since the train departs at 7:20 pm, you would have to arrange to store your luggage somewhere for the day after you check out of your hotel. Some hotels will store luggage for you, but then you would have to return to your hotel later in the day to retrieve it (might not be convenient). You could store it at the train station, but that would involve going to the train station in the morning just to store it. At times there can be lines at the luggage storage to drop off and pick up (you have to show ID, have luggage weighed, etc.). Also, unless you are willing to share cabins/couchettes with strangers, the overnight train is not cheap. A two person cabin is running 380€ from Venice to Paris.

Picking the same random date (Aug 24) that I picked for the train price, Easy Jet is 86€ for two people. They do charge extra to select your seat or to check luggage (they are very strict about carry on size/weight as are all the budget airlines in Europe). Flight travel time is 1:40. I think Easy Jet still releases their schedules about five months out. You can play around with some dates to get an idea of flight times and prices/fees.

http://www.easyjet.com/en/

>>>Since we plan to stay in Italy for at least a week, do you recommend renting a car? It seems like we are likely to stay in each city for 2-3 days before moving on.<<<

Rethink that schedule. Three nights somewhere only gives you two sightseeing days. Depending on city, many museums will close on a certain day. You will need to plan around that.

A car would be good if you planned to stay in the countryside (Tuscany?), but many cities in Italy don't allow you to drive into them (Google ZTL Italy and traffic cameras). Even hill towns have ZTL as do Rome and Florence. Parking in a bigger city would run 30-40€ a night (if your hotel has parking, many dont').

As for booking things, it's far too early. Train schedules in Europe change twice a year (2nd weekend in Dec and 2nd weekend in June) and Trenitalia allows booking fast trains 120 days in advance.

Skyscanner.com is a great website for european airfares. It's easy to play with the dates and destinations to help plan an itinerary. As mentioned, you have to be careful booking as the discount airlines charge for all manner of things: seats, baggage, check-in, etc. But, we have flown on a dozen different airlines in Europe with no problems other than the usual issues attendant to air travel. My one caveat is I have avoided Ryan Air (although my kids used them with no issues). Personally, I can't sleep on a train so an overnight does me no good, but day trips on modern and timely trains in France, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, etc. have been easy and fun.