Planning 1 month GB / Ireland. Seek suggestions, critique to outline plan.
 

For my wife’s 70th birthday, July 1, (how’d it get to be that many) she wants to be somewhere in Great Britain/Ireland. We have allocated up to a month for this trip. It will be our first to the British Isles. We came close on previous occasions, but for various reasons had to cancel.

The Summer Olympics start in London on July 26, so I think we need to be clear of London well before that. My thought is to start in London, work our way north to Edinburgh, then over to Ireland, and thence home from Dublin. We live on the west coast, USA.

Interests: history, scenery, old architecture (as in: old town centers), nature, some hiking if short and level, gardens. Good eating. Favor B&B’s over chain hotels. Also like boutique hotels. Want to see lots, but not rush, rush. Realize we can’t “see it all.” Days don’t start very early for us. After all, it’s supposed to be a vacation.

I have just started researching and planning, and I thought I’d put this up for the British and Irish experts to kibitz on and critique at this time.

Starting in London, we want to see the usual big attractions. Probably start with a tour of the highlights, then spend the rest of the time going to things and places. I also want to spend some time at Kews garden and palace area. So I’m figuring 5 nights. Enough?

Rent a car in London and drive to Bath and the Cotswolds. Not sure how many days here. Maybe 2 nights in Bath and 3 nights in some village (Chipping Campden, Moreton). Probably can’t take in the Lake District. Can daytrip to Warwick Castle?

Drive to York stay there 2 nights. Google maps says about 3 hours if no stops. Not likely. Of course we will make stops.

Drive north to Edinburgh, spending one night somewhere on the road getting there. I am interested in Hadrian’s wall, if just to take a picture and look at it.

3 nights in Edinburgh. Not sure about dumping the car upon arrival. May want it for a day trip. 3 nights enough? Probably can’t consider the Highlands.

That adds up to 16 nights.

Drive / ferry to Ireland is apparently most of a day. So maybe fly from Edinburgh to either Belfast or Dublin. Not sure I should spend time in Belfast. I’ve looked at a few tour books, and none rave about Belfast. Maybe just go direct to Dublin.

Couple of days in Dublin, then rent a car and get out into the countryside. The Dingle Peninsula peeked my interest. The Michelin Green Guide has several suggested drive tours. Looks very easy to fill up 10 days or so. Eventually back to Dublin, then home.

So, this is the outline I’m working with as of now. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions on itinerary or what “has” to be seen, or not, or how much time to allow, will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

If you are headed as far as Dingle, look into flying home from Shannon. It shouldn't be necessary to drive all the way back to Dublin, since you are doing an openjaw trip anyways.

You'll find it will be easier and less expensive to drop the car in England/Scotland/Wales, fly to Ireland and rent another car there. Reason is the one way cost.

dave

Since you are planning on doing a drive through Ireland and want to drop down to the Dingle/Shannon area (agree completely with China on flying back from Shannon), check out this great cottage rental. We stayed there a couple of years ago and believe me the pictures do not do it justice. What made it really nice is that you could star out to see lots of places by driving...

http://www.hazelcottageireland.com/

dave

Dingle was amazing! Do not miss it! If you do decide to start in Belfast, you can drive up to the Giant's Causeway and see the Antrim Coast. However, with 10 days you wouldn't be able to do both the North and South, so you would need to pick one.

You don't want or need a car in Bath. You don't want or need a car in York. You don't want or need a car in Edinburgh. You probably don't need a car to do a day trip from Edinburgh, unless there is some place that is a must see for you that is not on public transport.

So, that is 7 of your 11 days outside London where a car is an expensive hindrance. You should think about that in your planning.

You really only need a car for the three days in the Cotswolds and the two day drive from York to Edinburgh, where you might want to visit Durham cathedral, the border abbeys and/or the Northumberland coast (castles, Holy Island) as well as the Roman wall.

The drive from the Cotswolds to York doesn't excite me, so I would look at train to Bath, renting a car in Bristol (a very short train ride from Bath)after visiting Bath, returning car to Bristol, train to York, then 2 day car rental to Edinburgh.

You guys are great. Exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping for. Ron, good tip about the car and what to see on the York-Edinburgh leg.
Yes, I kind of figured out that I'd have to do either north or south Ireland. South seems more interesting to me at this point (subject to change).
Hope there's more advice out there.
Thanks.

I would have a deeper look at Northern Ireland, the troubles kept a lot of visitors away but the place is still fascinating. You just go to see the Giant's causeway.

http://www.discovernorthernireland.com

We can give you more details about the UK portion - but an idea about the Ireland bits: Check out the open jaw options to see which is cheaper/better schedules, flying home from Shannon or from Dublin. If Dublin is a better fit, then you can fly from Scotland to Shannon or to Cork, collect a car there, tour the W/SW, drive across to Dublin, drop the car, spend a couple of days in the city and fly home from there.

Thanks janisj. What a great suggestion! i did check that out, and most homebound departures from Shannon didn't really fit that well and were generally more $$$. Some even backtracked to London. I may have come up with your solution sooner or later. Or not. thank you.

Bill, if your wife is turning 70, perhaps you are somewhat older and there might be issues renting a car. Check the sites carefully; some may not rent at all and some will charge a premium.

My husband is 9 years older than I so of course he is always old and I am approaching it.

The upside is that you will be eligible for the OAP discounts at many attractions.

No problem renting in the UK, but there could be limitations in Ireland., depending . . .

How important is Hadrian's Wall? The drive from York to Edinburgh is four hours. Leave in the morning and you can make it to Edinburgh by late afternoon, even with the stop. By train, it's probably 2.5 hours because the fast trains from London will connect the two cities.

In the past some rental car companies in Ireland (not the UK) would not rent to drivers over 70, due to a law suit a few years ago brought by an Irish Christian Brother returning home to Ireland from Australia, this was abolished. However, rental car companies can charge a premium to drivers over 70 and those under 25. Also, keep in mind that the rental car coverage offered by most US credit card companies does not include the Republic of Ireland so you will need to purchase additional coverage. (Some carryover from when their were troubles in the North - and which the rental car companies continue to exploit to their profit.)

This senor stuff is over-rated. OK, well, the discounts to attractions may equal the premium for old geezers to drive. B'gora.

BigRuss. Don't know how important Hadrian's wall is. You bring up a good alternative. Will have to research what the 2 day road trip (with a night somewhere on the road) would contribute vs. an extra day somewhere else. Interesting point you make. Thanks.

Hi BillJ, Bath will provide your Roman fix, trust me! I visited last May, spent over 3 hours touring the Roman baths, they were fascinating....

The Roman Baths are wonderful --but definitely not a substitute for Hadrian's Wall. If you are interested, it an amazing experiences. (And Hadrian's Wall is not a substitute for the Baths)

As usual, I agree with janisj above. In 2010 DH and I drove from London to the west end of Hadrian's Wall (not all at once but our stops don't coincide with your proposed stops exactly, so I won't go into details. But we did go quickly through the Cotswolds a bit and through the Lake District) and stayed in Carlisle. The next day we spent driving east, stopping at 3 "major" sites along the wall and ended up in Durham with time to go into town to see the cathedral, which is open late. The next day we drove early to York. (And from there we continued south ending up in London--again, our agenda doesn't match yours. If you get interested in our logistics and routes, you can click on my name and scroll down on my profiles page to the Trip Report from 2010.)

I've been to Bath twice and it's amazing. But Hadrian's Wall is so, too, in an almost totally different way--the contrast of what Rome was doing in its settled towns and what it did on the not-so-settled frontiers.

I've been to Warwick Castle, too (but DH hasn't), and it's fun. But the Roman sites were more significant to us, so that's how we used our time in 2010.

Wow! Thanks Texasbookworm. What a wealth of info. Still digesting and sorting. thanks a bunch. I kinda thought I'd like the wall.

I wonder if three nights in Cotswold is a bit long???? We can't do much of those walking trails, as much as I'd like to, unless it's relatively short and level. We would have to drive around through the area. Uhmm. Will think some more about that.

This is really helping me with the plan. Thanks everybody.

Some of the tourist offices rent out electric scouters, now I know you may be offended but moving around say York centre on a little thing will be better than struggling around. It's worth searching city Tourist offices and see what is available

Jeez, bilbo, we aren't crippled. We walked all around Montreal, Quebec City, and Franconia area, New Hampshire in Oct. Don't need the cart yet. When i Do need it, it's time go on a cruise. LOL.

Agree, I'm still a few years away from reaching the 70's age group, but I challenge anyone to keep up with me whether I'm touring York ( or any other city) or walking the moors of Scotland. Mr. History who is in his 70's usually starts off his day with a 60 minute walk/run before tramping around the usual tourist sites.

What a shame you can't take in the Lake District. I think it's the best bit of the UK. Admittedly it can be very busy in late July and August and to see the best of it, you need to do some hiking. Maybe next time you can rent a cottage in Ambleside and do some touring in May/June or Septmeber?
If you do spend time in Bristol, don't miss the georgian terraces and squares of Clifton and the Isambard Kingdom Brunel suspension Bridge.

BillJ, no worries :-) I was just offering info..
I have a nasty feeling that if the answer is "take a cruise" then I don't want to know what the question is.

No problem, bilbo. there will come a time, when independent travel is not possible. But until then...........

lynny2. Yes, I want to see the Lake District. Plus a lot of other stuff. But alas, isn't trip planning a series of compromises? I mean, with only so much time, eventually, cuts need to be made. I am also very interested in the Highlands of Scotland. I haven't eliminated anything yet. But the Lakes doesn't look likely at this point. Sad.

You can fly Edinburgh to Cork, therefore putting you closer to Dingle. I did that in reverse, and it was a cinch on Aer Lingus. I'm also in love with the Dingle Peninsula, but anywhere on that corner of Ireland should make you happy.

Great info,sheri. Thanks. Got that in my notes. Good idea. Thanks.

BillJ,Dublin is a good walking city,not so good for driving and parking etc!There is also as in most cities the Hop on/off tour bus that would bring you to the Guinness Brewery,the Royal Hospital Kilmainham,the Gaol(Jail)well worth a visit and Phoenix Park.If i could suggest a good day for you,go early to Trinity College look around,join the queue for the Book of Kells,it opens at 09.30am,first come,everyone has to queue.
Then take the short walk,less than 200yards up Dawson Street to the Mansion House,the Lord Mayor's residence.Across the road you can at 11.30am catch the Saint Kevin's Bus to Glendalough,a spectacular Monastic settlement from the 8/9th century.Nice scenery on the way also.Not sure if you can pre book this trip.
On your return back at 18.00pm go around the corner for a well deserved pint of Guinness or TWO in Kehoe's,Davy Byrne's the Bailey or the Duke.Slainte

Thank you taffey. I have made notes on your recommendations.

On my first trip to Northern England / Scotland I had a car with me most of the way. Rates tend to be cheaper in renting an auto for longer periods.

It allowed me to stop in beautiful Durham without having to carry luggage around. When I spent 3 nights in Edinburgh, I parked my auto in the train station for a relatively inexpensive fee.

It allowed me to cross the Firth of Forth (39 Steps)and on to Scone Palace. Back through Loch Ness (Nessie was sleeping) and down to the Lakes District.

Travel over Hard Knot and Wye Knot was fun. Stopping at a pub with a group of Mog owners.

There are numerous, far too many places to see in 30 days.

My two favorites are York and Edinburgh, with a nod to Durham.

I highly recommend the hop-on, hop-off bus in Dublin. You can see everything from St. Patrick's Cathedral to The Guinness Storehouse. Although Dublinia might seem like a tourist trap, I enjoyed it. If you get off at the stop near the Kilmainham Gaol, although you have to walk a bit to get to the building,if you have any interest at all in Irish history, this is an unusual tour. Also, the National Museum (which I think is on Kildare Street next to the library) is free and has some wonderful exhibits. As for Shannon, if you fly Aer Lingus, some of their flights to Shannon are every other day. On that "every other day," you would not have to fly back to London. If you decided not to rent a car in Dublin (driving is a challenge in Dublin), you can easily hop local busses to get wherever you are going. You might choose a B and B that is near a bus stop. Also, you could take a day bus tour out to Newgrange, a UNESCO World Heritage Sight. Good luck! Jan

I've been only in London and Brighton in UK, but I've been numerous times in Ireland and N.Ireland, and due to various reasons, I never hire a car. Of course a car hire gives maximum flexibility, but I find that walking and public transport plus an organised tour here and there makes the trick for a comfortable trip. I almost never had to use a taxi and never a private transfer on my trips, and note that some of them were 3+weeks long and covered so diverse areas as Dublin, Cork, Killarney, Doolin,Inishmore,Galway, Sligo, Donegal,Derry,Belfast to name but a few...
Just to add some random thoughts, if one loves gardens and nature, I think a trip to Wicklow from Dublin might be interesting. Then Cork city is very pleasant and it is a sort train ride to Fota Gardens (and Wildlife park), and of course when talking about nature, you really can't skip Killarney area. If one is not into hiking, a leisure walk from Killarney town to very scenic Ross Castle is a real treat! Organised tours from Killarney to Ring of Kerry and Dingle peninsula can offer a taste of those areas for those of us who prefer not to drive, there are decent tours and not very expensive either. If car hire is an option, one may want to hire localy for one or two days anyway, no need to drive all around if one can admire the scenery in leisure from a comfortable and fast train or a bus !

As an American living in England, I have done lots of exploring and have found the train to be the best travel option on the island (www.nationalrail.co.uk) and low cost airlines (www.EasyJet.com) the best bets to Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, also the north of Scotland. Do not underestimate the stress of driving on the left side of the road and the right side of the car, congested/expensive car parks, narrow country roads taking much longer to travel than expected, and petrol costing nearly £7/$10 per gallon (today is £1.38/litre in East Anglia where I live). If you decide to drive, a sat nav/GPS is a must and look up the UK driving regulations online; Her Majesty does not joke around with traffic violations. The Republic of Ireland, of course, drives on the wrong (i.e. Right) side of the road.
I think 3 nights is too long in the Cotswolds (2 days in Bath, etc is plenty but not to be missed) and overlooking Kent (Dover/Leeds/Canterbury) is a loss. As a WWII buff, the best tour I have been on is the Operation Dynamo exhibit at the Dover Castle, full stop.
My two cents (pence!): some driving may be unavoidable but let someone else do the driving as much as possible and enjoy your holiday much more! Agree highly with the above for the hop on/hop off in Dublin, I saw the entire city this way in 2 days. Also, check into English Heritage, I believe you can join short term for fantastic discounts/free admission to many cathedrals, castles, and sites across Britain. Happy travels!

"<i>let someone else do the driving as much as possible and enjoy your holiday much more</i>"

My perspective is 180 degrees from that. I lived in the UK for 5 years (granted, long ago when the roads were not as congested as now) and one of the joys of my trips back is the driving. I really dislike having to conform to bus timetables. Trains are really good for some long distance journeys (and fordaily commutes) - but w/ a few notable exceptions, train rides are not very scenic. Plus having a car means one can get to all those terrific off-the-beaten path villages/sites/castles/gardens that are not easily accessible by public transport.

Thanks for these thoughts. I am very interested in Durham. Looks neat. I'm afraid with the number of days we have (about 30) we are going to miss out on something, and early on I decided the south and southeast of England, along with the Lake District, will not see us. This time, anyway.

We are predisposed to drive, if possible, (Must be the California in us.) though we recognize the advantages of trains for longer treks, and I appreciate those comments. But, I don't like driving more than 4 hours a day, so I am mindful of the map kind of programs for estimated drive times. We like hop-on, hop-off buses, and generally take at least a half day tour in larger cities.

Thanks again for the continued tips.

"<i>so I am mindful of the map kind of programs for estimated drive times</i>"

The on-line sites are good for route planning - but you will need to add from 25% to well over 50% to most of the drive time calculations. Those are for optimal conditions -- no traffic, no weather, no getting stuck behind caravans (travel trailers), no sheep in the road. Off the motorway just plan on averaging 30-40 mph.

Roger that janisj. Sheep on the road----love it. Also, the temptation to take the odd road now and then. Got stuck behind a herd of dairy cattle in Normandy once. one of those charming little scenes that replays many times in my head.

That's one of the many reasons we like to take the car.