Places to live with a toddler btw/ London and Birmingham? HELP please
Jul 27th, 2009, 04:59 PM
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Places to live with a toddler btw/ London and Birmingham? HELP please
We are moving for a year to England and my husband's offices are locate in London and Birmingham. We will like to leave between both cities. Any suggestions where to live. Family friendly (15 months girl), shopping areas, close to main transportation, green space and safe. Any suggestions will be great ..some friends suggested Leamington Spa. What do you think about this place? any other places? Thanks 
Jul 27th, 2009, 05:16 PM
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Your post is not very clear. There are family friendly places everywhere and shops. Both Birmingham and London are quite large so the location of the two offices will also influence the direction out of the city you would want to base yourselves. Similarly do you want to have any contact with other people from the US or elsewhere while in England, this might influence your choice of area.
I don't know Leamington Spa personally but it is known as a nice town and is a short train ride into Birmingham.
How often would your husband expect to work in London versus Birmingham? I have a brother in Birmingham and he had to go to London every day for a court case for a week and he said he would not want to commute to London every day, which some people do. Although there is a good and fast service it tends to make for a 12 hour day, so you would be rather lonely with a small child.
From a transport point of view the place to live is Milton Keynes but I am not sure you would enjoy it. It is about half way between on a good train route, couples who work in the two cities choose it as a good compromise for travelling.
If neither of you know England I would advise you to spend some time looking for yourselves before making a decision, rental contracts are usually for six month periods with the possibility of extending.
I don't know Leamington Spa personally but it is known as a nice town and is a short train ride into Birmingham.
How often would your husband expect to work in London versus Birmingham? I have a brother in Birmingham and he had to go to London every day for a court case for a week and he said he would not want to commute to London every day, which some people do. Although there is a good and fast service it tends to make for a 12 hour day, so you would be rather lonely with a small child.
From a transport point of view the place to live is Milton Keynes but I am not sure you would enjoy it. It is about half way between on a good train route, couples who work in the two cities choose it as a good compromise for travelling.
If neither of you know England I would advise you to spend some time looking for yourselves before making a decision, rental contracts are usually for six month periods with the possibility of extending.
Jul 27th, 2009, 05:42 PM
#4
You may not know how often he will be traveling -- but you probably DO know the locations of the London and Birmingham branches.
That <i>could</i> make a difference -- for instance access to different parts of London varies considerably depending on where you are coming from. Midway between the two cities may or may not be the best choice. Leamington Spa is much closer to B'ham than to London. Milton Keynes is almost precisely 1/2 way between the two.
Also do you want a house/garden/country village or small town -- or do you want an urban flat.
That <i>could</i> make a difference -- for instance access to different parts of London varies considerably depending on where you are coming from. Midway between the two cities may or may not be the best choice. Leamington Spa is much closer to B'ham than to London. Milton Keynes is almost precisely 1/2 way between the two.
Also do you want a house/garden/country village or small town -- or do you want an urban flat.
Jul 27th, 2009, 06:08 PM
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jani you made great questions for us to consider. We would like a 2bed apt/garden/don't know small town or urban flat. It is getting complicated when looking for options not being in the country ah?
We looked at flats at Milton Keynes and they look nice but it is better to be there to see it obviously!!!! Leamington Spa is great too but a little more expensive.
Thanks so much for your facts...helped a lot! I will continue looking for other cities besides the two in mind. Hopefuly I can get more suggestions for towns...Thanks
We looked at flats at Milton Keynes and they look nice but it is better to be there to see it obviously!!!! Leamington Spa is great too but a little more expensive.
Thanks so much for your facts...helped a lot! I will continue looking for other cities besides the two in mind. Hopefuly I can get more suggestions for towns...Thanks
Jul 27th, 2009, 07:05 PM
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milaqt,
I've been asking a lot of questions about London neighbourhoods for our four-month stay next fall and the fodorites have been very helpful. If you click on my name, you'll see the threads.
I've been looking at a very good website called sabbaticalhomes.com. We're just looking for a small apartment but there are many houses on there that might be of interest to you, and in many locations. You might want to take a look on that site and google the names of the owners/renters to get a bit of an idea who they are.
I've been asking a lot of questions about London neighbourhoods for our four-month stay next fall and the fodorites have been very helpful. If you click on my name, you'll see the threads.
I've been looking at a very good website called sabbaticalhomes.com. We're just looking for a small apartment but there are many houses on there that might be of interest to you, and in many locations. You might want to take a look on that site and google the names of the owners/renters to get a bit of an idea who they are.
Jul 27th, 2009, 07:16 PM
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Just for example, milaq, look at numbers 43503, 45814 and 37428. These are all in London somewhere but I have no idea of where. I'm just providing them to give you an idea of some of the houses available.
Jul 27th, 2009, 09:10 PM
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Can I politely suggest you appear to be going about this in ENTIRELY the wrong way?
Long-distance commuting is expensive and very, very time-consuming anywhere. But in SE England, ill-planned dual location commuting is completely lethal. Most of London, and a fair slug of Birmingham, is a very long way indeed (in distance) and can be hours (in time) away from Euston, Marylebone (in London) or New Street (in Birmingham) stations - and even further from where the M1/6 or the M40/42 go to. And what many people describe as a London office is often nowhere any of us would recognise as London.
Misunderstanding the stresses ill-planned commuting can create can kill expatriate managers' marriages and careers. Our roads are horrendously overcrowded: our trains just unreliable and overcrowded enough to infuriate most regular commuters. Typically, their spouses suffer even more.
IMHO you MUST start off knowing exactly where the two offices are, and precisely how you're going to get to both of them from anywhere other than next door to a railway station (and how you'll cope with the closed motorways and cancelled train services that will hit him several times a year). You really need to do this before accepting the job, and MUST have some idea how often travel to each location is really going to be required. If he thinks he's going to be in both places several times a week for more than a week or two, he's deluding himself, and merely setting himself up to mess the job up and have you storm off home. One of those offices will be his base, and one the place he goes to occasionally for meetings: the balance might change - and you might move as a result - but it's absolutely essential you start this process with a clear working assumption about where he'll be travelling to most of the time.
Helen B's right to say you's be wise to get a short rental. But wiser still to do nothing at all until you - and that means you both - have come over here and actually driven and trained the journeys you think are going to be necessary.
Once you know precisely where the London office is (assuming that's the base), draw up a list of places that are accessible to it, and agree the means of transport. Leamington Spa's NOT accessible to anywhere in London that's not close to Marylebone (or at a pinch Paddington) station, for example, unless he's happy to drive every day (a perfectly sensible idea if his office is in the far NW of London). But his London office MIGHT be close to one of the London suburban stations served by trains heading for Euston, Marylebone or Paddington stations - and you might decide towns like Banbury or Northampton, on these lines and on motorways to Birmingham, might be accessible to the Birmingham office
If, BTW, you both seriously suspect the location of the two offices makes his job look potentially not reconcilable with your sanity, turn the job down. Better a reputation for prudence now than a screwed-up job and a collapsed marriage in two years' time.
Assume at this stage, BTW, everywhere's safe and "family-friendly", whatever you think that means. Then find wherever suits YOUR purposes - and don't assume others share your tastes. Most families I know would commit collective suicide rather than take their children to Milton Keynes if they could be living in central London.
Long-distance commuting is expensive and very, very time-consuming anywhere. But in SE England, ill-planned dual location commuting is completely lethal. Most of London, and a fair slug of Birmingham, is a very long way indeed (in distance) and can be hours (in time) away from Euston, Marylebone (in London) or New Street (in Birmingham) stations - and even further from where the M1/6 or the M40/42 go to. And what many people describe as a London office is often nowhere any of us would recognise as London.
Misunderstanding the stresses ill-planned commuting can create can kill expatriate managers' marriages and careers. Our roads are horrendously overcrowded: our trains just unreliable and overcrowded enough to infuriate most regular commuters. Typically, their spouses suffer even more.
IMHO you MUST start off knowing exactly where the two offices are, and precisely how you're going to get to both of them from anywhere other than next door to a railway station (and how you'll cope with the closed motorways and cancelled train services that will hit him several times a year). You really need to do this before accepting the job, and MUST have some idea how often travel to each location is really going to be required. If he thinks he's going to be in both places several times a week for more than a week or two, he's deluding himself, and merely setting himself up to mess the job up and have you storm off home. One of those offices will be his base, and one the place he goes to occasionally for meetings: the balance might change - and you might move as a result - but it's absolutely essential you start this process with a clear working assumption about where he'll be travelling to most of the time.
Helen B's right to say you's be wise to get a short rental. But wiser still to do nothing at all until you - and that means you both - have come over here and actually driven and trained the journeys you think are going to be necessary.
Once you know precisely where the London office is (assuming that's the base), draw up a list of places that are accessible to it, and agree the means of transport. Leamington Spa's NOT accessible to anywhere in London that's not close to Marylebone (or at a pinch Paddington) station, for example, unless he's happy to drive every day (a perfectly sensible idea if his office is in the far NW of London). But his London office MIGHT be close to one of the London suburban stations served by trains heading for Euston, Marylebone or Paddington stations - and you might decide towns like Banbury or Northampton, on these lines and on motorways to Birmingham, might be accessible to the Birmingham office
If, BTW, you both seriously suspect the location of the two offices makes his job look potentially not reconcilable with your sanity, turn the job down. Better a reputation for prudence now than a screwed-up job and a collapsed marriage in two years' time.
Assume at this stage, BTW, everywhere's safe and "family-friendly", whatever you think that means. Then find wherever suits YOUR purposes - and don't assume others share your tastes. Most families I know would commit collective suicide rather than take their children to Milton Keynes if they could be living in central London.
Jul 27th, 2009, 10:49 PM
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i agree with flanner. although many britons live the life of commuting stupid distances, this could seriously stress a young expat family to the point of breakage. the distances are deceiving in this general area and not good indicators of the time taken for the journey.
i'm not sure where you are coming from but 'family friendly' can mean many things (again, agree with flanner). set your expectations for this appropriately. the commuting life you mention (together with the expat nature of the assignment) is not 'family friendly' by most definitions. our average houses and flats are horribly undersized for most families. many rental flats have combination washer/dryers (or no dryer at all) that most people from civilised countries will find completely useless. refrigerators and dishwashers are usually undersized for families from more civilised parts. 'american sized' appliances are still largely an expensive yuppy indulgence here. yes, millions of british families 'manage' with this but again, you need to put it in the context of an expat assignment and how stressful these can be.
you must look at areas at night as well as in the day. for example, leamington spa is a seemingly civilised town during the day but has a serious yob problem in the later hours.
hopefully he can negotiate a good expat package so you can avoid the toils of living like average local people do....a lifestyle that people from more civilised countries may find completely unacceptable.
i'm not sure where you are coming from but 'family friendly' can mean many things (again, agree with flanner). set your expectations for this appropriately. the commuting life you mention (together with the expat nature of the assignment) is not 'family friendly' by most definitions. our average houses and flats are horribly undersized for most families. many rental flats have combination washer/dryers (or no dryer at all) that most people from civilised countries will find completely useless. refrigerators and dishwashers are usually undersized for families from more civilised parts. 'american sized' appliances are still largely an expensive yuppy indulgence here. yes, millions of british families 'manage' with this but again, you need to put it in the context of an expat assignment and how stressful these can be.
you must look at areas at night as well as in the day. for example, leamington spa is a seemingly civilised town during the day but has a serious yob problem in the later hours.
hopefully he can negotiate a good expat package so you can avoid the toils of living like average local people do....a lifestyle that people from more civilised countries may find completely unacceptable.
Jul 28th, 2009, 06:37 AM
#10
Flanner is 100% right (and it is why I mentioned early on to find out exactly where the two offices are)
I would not even start to think about locations w/o knowing that at minimum.
Not knowing this little bit of info could easily mean 1 full hour's travel AFTER your husband arrives in London. And I also agree re Milton Keynes. The most non-descript place. It would be a real shame to waste a year there IMO.
I would not even start to think about locations w/o knowing that at minimum.
Not knowing this little bit of info could easily mean 1 full hour's travel AFTER your husband arrives in London. And I also agree re Milton Keynes. The most non-descript place. It would be a real shame to waste a year there IMO.
Jul 28th, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Another vote in favour of sorting out office locations first. Despite a noticeable drop in commuter traffic since the so called credit crunch hit, London's streets are still fairly congested during working days (and in parts of London on weekends, too) and travel can be <i>very</i> time consuming.
Once off the motorways, overland travel will in many cases also take some time, even though mere distance may (misleadingly) suggest oherwise.
Depending on how much time one anticipates to spend at the office, I would encourage everyone to choose a location in closer proximity to the office in direct correlation to the amount of time spent at the office. Even commuting within London can take lots of time and I made sure a) not having to change lines on the way to and from work, b) be able to avoid the tube and c) be within reasonable walking distance (it admittedly helps if the office is in a nice part of town). It has certainly paid off.
Once off the motorways, overland travel will in many cases also take some time, even though mere distance may (misleadingly) suggest oherwise.
Depending on how much time one anticipates to spend at the office, I would encourage everyone to choose a location in closer proximity to the office in direct correlation to the amount of time spent at the office. Even commuting within London can take lots of time and I made sure a) not having to change lines on the way to and from work, b) be able to avoid the tube and c) be within reasonable walking distance (it admittedly helps if the office is in a nice part of town). It has certainly paid off.
Jul 28th, 2009, 12:56 PM
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In my defence I was not suggesting Milton Keynes I was making an observation. If the poster thinks Leamington Spa is expensive the salary being offered doesn't sound enough.
Perhaps I didn't say it explicitly enough but a wife alone with a toddler at least in the day really needs to find a place where she is likely to meet with people who are like minded. I have guessed perhaps wrongly that the wife if not the husband is not American, which is why I was hinting she might like to choose an area where people of the same origins congregate so that she has a chance of having some sort of social life and a welcome. I am not being too pessimistic I live in an area of London with lots of young expatriates and their families and they do not get involved with the local life and tend to congregate either by language group or by meeting other mothers on the school run. Normally a very expensive private school. But life with a toddler makes it quite difficult to meet other local people unless you are lucky enough to live close to a church or other organisation that has an active toddler group. Unfortunately many of the smaller towns which are used to commute to London or Birmingham are ghost towns in the day.
In pondering this does "family friendly" mean somewhere that there is affordable child care so that she can work. If so then this is a much more difficult to find and very expensive. Many women use child care so that they don't lose too much ground in their careers but actually they spend a significant part of that salary they earn on that child care.
It is true appliances are smaller than in the US but so is the space in the kitchen and/or utility room. However with a toddler a separate washing machine and dryer should be esssential in a home you choose unless you want to spend time in the launderette.
If your husband works for a company that regularly sends people to work in England there may be some sort of advisory service in the company that you can tap into for advice.
Perhaps I didn't say it explicitly enough but a wife alone with a toddler at least in the day really needs to find a place where she is likely to meet with people who are like minded. I have guessed perhaps wrongly that the wife if not the husband is not American, which is why I was hinting she might like to choose an area where people of the same origins congregate so that she has a chance of having some sort of social life and a welcome. I am not being too pessimistic I live in an area of London with lots of young expatriates and their families and they do not get involved with the local life and tend to congregate either by language group or by meeting other mothers on the school run. Normally a very expensive private school. But life with a toddler makes it quite difficult to meet other local people unless you are lucky enough to live close to a church or other organisation that has an active toddler group. Unfortunately many of the smaller towns which are used to commute to London or Birmingham are ghost towns in the day.
In pondering this does "family friendly" mean somewhere that there is affordable child care so that she can work. If so then this is a much more difficult to find and very expensive. Many women use child care so that they don't lose too much ground in their careers but actually they spend a significant part of that salary they earn on that child care.
It is true appliances are smaller than in the US but so is the space in the kitchen and/or utility room. However with a toddler a separate washing machine and dryer should be esssential in a home you choose unless you want to spend time in the launderette.
If your husband works for a company that regularly sends people to work in England there may be some sort of advisory service in the company that you can tap into for advice.
Jul 30th, 2009, 04:08 AM
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I agree with flanner (think that's a first) but would like to add. Pick one and live near. IMHO it is better to have a long (2-4 hour) commute occasionally than a 1.5 hour commute each day. In a year there are going to be some delays on public transport / roads so that 1.5hour commute can become 2.5 hours. I can imagine if you and DD have been alone all day you will want some conversation with your husband when he gets home. 2.5 hours stuck in traffic can drain the life force out of the best of us.
If all things are equal between the two cities then think about a car. You can manage in London without a car - not so easy in the rest of the UK.
I'd suggest making the priorities you and your daughter. Look into nursery / play groups. Have a look at what is available to you while your husband is at work. Do you intend to work? (check if you are allowed) do you want to take a class in art / motorcycle maintenance / insert hobby of your choice.
There is the potential for you to be very lonely if you end up in a strange town alone with a 15 month old for much of the trip.
Finally - just one of my out of left field thoughts - if this is only for a year why look at towns / cities? Rent a camper van or a narrow boat and see more than one place
If all things are equal between the two cities then think about a car. You can manage in London without a car - not so easy in the rest of the UK.
I'd suggest making the priorities you and your daughter. Look into nursery / play groups. Have a look at what is available to you while your husband is at work. Do you intend to work? (check if you are allowed) do you want to take a class in art / motorcycle maintenance / insert hobby of your choice.
There is the potential for you to be very lonely if you end up in a strange town alone with a 15 month old for much of the trip.
Finally - just one of my out of left field thoughts - if this is only for a year why look at towns / cities? Rent a camper van or a narrow boat and see more than one place
Aug 2nd, 2009, 07:14 AM
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Wow!!
Thanks so much for ALL your advice and suggestions. Your messages are a really weak up call for us. I hope nobody got offended by the "Family Friendly" expression, all that means was places with close parks, infant schools, libraries etc. like Helen mentioned.Flanner thanks for the clarification in terms of location of the office and time traveling from one place to another. The job has been taken so we definately are going to England. With your advice we will have a better understanding once we get there and YES we will be meeting with a group of people who will guide us in terms of re-location, housing etc. We just wanted opinions from great experienced people like you to have some ideas before getting there. Once again MANY THANKS. I will keep in touch!!!! Milaqt
Thanks so much for ALL your advice and suggestions. Your messages are a really weak up call for us. I hope nobody got offended by the "Family Friendly" expression, all that means was places with close parks, infant schools, libraries etc. like Helen mentioned.Flanner thanks for the clarification in terms of location of the office and time traveling from one place to another. The job has been taken so we definately are going to England. With your advice we will have a better understanding once we get there and YES we will be meeting with a group of people who will guide us in terms of re-location, housing etc. We just wanted opinions from great experienced people like you to have some ideas before getting there. Once again MANY THANKS. I will keep in touch!!!! Milaqt
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