But first kja, any thoughts about Slovenia? Was it well worth visiting for you?

Absolutely! I loved my (all-too-short) time -- about 4 days -- in Slovenia! I spent ~ 1.5 days in charming, unique Llubljiana. From there, with a rental car, I visited the Škocjan Caves. Predjama Castle (exterior only), and Lake Bohinj before heading to Lake Bled, where I spent 2 nights. During my one full day in Bled, I visited the castle, walked the lovely Vintgar Gorge, took a pletna to Bled Island and back, and walked around the lake. I left the next morning (I had only one full day in Bled) for the airport.

Lovely! Well worth seeing! Very photogenic!

And so the same message -- give yourselves as much time as you can for half of your most recently posted list or designations (i.e., EITHER Prague--Krakow--Budapest OR Croatia). Just my opinion.

Thanks kja! And jadran008! Helpful link on Rovinj! And info on Slovenia. Hopefully we can get tickets soon, but I will be out of state crazy busy in a week so may have to wait.

I just looked again at the photos on the above link that jadran008 posted. Lovely! Now I hope to get tickets in the next couple of days.

Just got tickets!! Stretched that original 2 weeks into 19 days with the only award tickets available that would work for us. We will fly in and out of Zagreb in October. Finally decided to visit Budapest, Krakow, and Prague on a separate trip later on. So this trip will involve driving around Croatia, maybe a one day excursion into Bosnia, and a few days in Slovenia--at least that's what I'm thinking right now.

19 days for Slovenia and Croatia is wonderful. You will see, not enough, but I'm sure you will love it.

We spent 2 weeks in Croatia and 1 in Slovenia and only scratched the surface. Here are more pics for your inspiration:

http://ioana-mark.smugmug.com/Travel...0488&k=v4BDthB

http://ioana-mark.smugmug.com/Travel...5900&k=gpSHqrq

Don't forget, you will need a vignette to drive in both countries; you will have the one for the country where you rent the car from, but you'll need to purchase the other one. http://www.dalnicni-znamky.com/en/

"you will need a vignette to drive in both countries" -- or drop the car you use in Croatia off in Zagreb, take one of the frequent trains or buses to Ljubljana, and rent another car there.

Thanks exy99. I glanced at your photos (such a cute couple!) and will look at them more longingly this weekend. ANd for the reminder about the vignette.
kja, good idea. Not sure yet what we will do but probably drive one car because we will need to return to Zagreb and want to also check out Rovinj.

Thinking we will also do a one day/one night trip to Bosnia and maybe Montenegro.

I thoroughly enjoyed a day trip from Dubrovnik to Kotor in Montenegro.

I was very glad I stayed overnight in Mostar. I thought it a very moving city (but that was in 2009, and as it continues to recover from the war, that could change). I also thought it much nicer after day-trippers left. I watched the sunset from one of the terraces along the river, looking to the Stari Most on one side and toward a mosque and minaret on the other -- gorgeous!

So kja, how did you do your Dubrovnik--Kotor--Mostar segment? Spent the night in Mostar?

I flew into Sarajevo (the first destination of my 30-day trip to the region), where I spent two nights. I took a train to Mostar, where I spent one night. I took a bus to Dubrovnik, where I spent 3 nights. On my 2nd full day in Dubrovnik, I rented a car and used it to drive to Kotor, returning to Dubrovnik and turning the car that same evening.

"Eastern Europe" :-)

Now exacttly where are the Urals?

Thanks, kja. I wondered about Sarajevo but think it might be too much to add now. But we will definitely go to Mostar and Dubrovnik and probably Kotor.

Sarajevo is lovely. I wish I had given it more time, but was glad to see it. The problem is that there is SO much to see in the area that one must make some difficult choices.

We are making those choices now! And bilboburgler--point taken. "Eastern Europe" has become an "overarching term" for countries often known under different categories. Since my Ph.D. is not in Geography, I perhaps blurred the borders in my trip planning!

ANy thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of renting a car vs bus and train travel? We have been thinking we would rent a car, but it seems troublesome to take the ferry to Hvar and also not always necessary.

What's your itinerary now? I have traveled in Central and Eastern Euroope and the Balkans successfully by public transport - click on my name for the relevant TRs. The only place that would have been easier with a car was Plitvice.

I'll add my vote for Sarajevo.

Thanks thursdaysd. Guess I'd better consider Sarajevo. I don't have this set up in order yet, but we plan to visit Zagreb, Plitvice, Split, Kodor, Mostar, Dubrovnik, Rovinj, Ljubjana, Lake Bled, and maybe Hvar? Not committed, just leaning that way. It seems like a rental car might be a big pain with the ferries and parking problems, although my husband doesn't mind driving. I'd only want to drive if it is a big convenience. Seems like it will be more costly.

As thursdaysd noted, most of these places can be easily visited without a car. FWIW:

I used a one-day rental car for Kotor, but I'm pretty sure there are day trips there that are now more convenient than when I was in the area. And although I was very glad I saw Kotor (and on the way, Perast), there are, IMO, some similarities between Kotor and Dubrovnik that are greater than the similarities between any of the other pairs of destinations you are considering. If you are struggling with what to cut, Kotor might be worth considering.

I used a rental for a one-week interval during which I visited the Plitvice Lakes, Istria, and a few other locations; I did so for convenience more than necessity.

- The Plitvice Lakes CAN be reached by bus; at the time I went (back in 2009), I read a lot about buses that didn't stop to pick people up as they were leaving the area, and I wasn't willing to take that risk. Others have since reported success in using buses to both go to and depart from the park area.

- Almost all of the places I visited in Istria could have been seen by bus, if a bit less conveniently. The major exception (as I recall) was Beram, for which a car was (at that time) necessary.

- During that week, I also visited a few places that were much further off the beaten trail and where a car proved very useful (e.g., Cigoc and the Lonjske Polje).

I also used a (3rd) rental car, this time for 2 days, to visit Lake Bled and parts of Slovenia outside Ljubljana. Lake Bled itself is easy to reach from Ljubljana by public transportation. I wanted the convenience of a car to visit the Skocjan Caves and Lake Bohinj, but there again, I think one could use public transportation to visit those locations.

For most of the places you are thinking of visiting -- Zagreb, Split, Mostar, Dubrovnik, Rovinj, and Ljubljana, having a car will likely be a decided encumbrance. For Hvar Town itself, it will likely be an encumbrance AND will limit your ferry options, although it could be an advantage if you want to explore a bit of Hvar Island. (But not necessarily, as you can get to/from several locations on Hvar Island, including Stari Grad, by bus.)

Hope that helps!

Kja--that is VERY helpful! Just the info I need. I will share this with my husband and revisit this topic. I kind of like the idea of renting a car as needed, not for the whole trip and getting stuck around the ferries and cities without parking. Much to take into consideration!!.

I have a couple of questions and would like any input on this possible itinerary. First, does anyone know if the catamarans run from Split out to Hvar and Korcula in October? Or even the ferries. Also is it pretty easy to just rent a car for a few days at a time and then rent another one later on?
We will arrive in Zagreb on October 3 and leave from Zagreb on October 20.
ZAGREB: 2 nights
PLITVICE 1 night
SPLIT 1
HVAR & KORCULA 2 nights
DUBROVNIK 3 nights
BAY OF KOTAR
MOSTAR 1 night
ZADAR or somewhere in between nearby. 1 night
ROVINJ 2 nights
Lubljana 2-3 nights
Lake Bled 1 night
Zagreb 1 night or add this night to Slovenia and leave early in the morning for our flight.

Somehow this seems pretty intense. Would you make any changes? Maybe we can't get to Hvar anyway? Being October and all.

RE: RENTAL CAR: I am thinking we would rent one the day we leave Zagreb and drive to Plitvice. Maybe we could drop it off in Split and then pick up another one when we leave Dubrovnik? Drop it off when we arrive in Rovinj?

I think that you can get from Split to Hvar and back pretty much year round (though I won't swear to it), but I don't think the Hvar to Korcula connection is a daily one even in high season. BUT you really need to check: Have you found the Jadrolinija schedules? Even if you can find a connection, I have trouble imagining that one can see Hvar AND Korcula in a total of 2 nights -- or did you mean 2 nights for each island, rather than 1 night for each?

Yes, that is a decidedly intense itinerary. With the exception of the Hvar/Korcula part, it is doable -- in fact, it isn't terribly different from what I did, and my trip was indeed, very, very intense. Moreover, I was in the area in May/June, so days were LONG. In October, days will, of course, be much shorter and that could have a huge impact on you, particularly since photography is a major goal. If you can make the painful decision to cut a few places, I don't think you will regret it.

Do you already have your flights? If not, look into flying into Dubrovnik and out of Ljubljana or vice versa. If you already have your flights, look into options to fly from Zagreb straight to Dubrovnik and then work your way north or go straight from Zagreb to Slovenia and work your way south before flying back to Zagreb.

If you are going to take a rental car across a border, make sure the company knows and that you have any paperwork (including any vignettes) that you need. If you plan to leave the car off in a country that is not the one from which you rented it, expect a hefty fee. Personally, I would keep your use of a rental car to a minimum so that the driver can safely appreciate the scenery, but that's JMO.

Thank you kja! I will check and double check on the island connections. I wouldn't be distraught if we couldn't include them. And I like your idea of flying to Dubrovnik from Zagreb and driving northward. I also had not thought about the shorter days. :-( But I know we will have a great trip no matter what we do. THANKS!

Would that be too gauche to travel all the way to Croatia and skip Hvar and Korcula? That would give some ease in our schedule and allow us to slow the pace. But I don't want to miss any "must sees."

And you once thought you could see Prague and Budapest on the same trip! ;-)

So let me start with the "bad" news: I'm not sure how one defines a "must-see," but I can tell you that with an even longer time span than yours, and a very hard-paced itinerary, I did NOT see everything I wanted to see while in Croatia. And with the timeframe and pace you are considering, you won't see everything that many people (including myself) consider to be high-priority Croatian destinations -- and by that, I mean you won't get to all the cities or towns or parks or islands that one might want to visit, and unfortunately, you also won't have time to see all the things that any of the places you do visit have to offer.

And that means that you are at the point of planning that I always find hardest: How to balance the desire to visit all sorts of places with the desire to actually be able to see and enjoy the ones you do visit.

Don't worry about whether it is "gauche" or not. Think about what YOU most want to see and experience.

Good luck!

As usual, I agree with kja (we really need to find something to disagree about!). My must-see may be your eminently skippable. However, if you have doubts about the islands, I would reinforce them. I didn't see Korcula, but I though Hvar over-hyped, and far too full of pretty people off floating penthouses. And there is plenty of coastline on the mainland.

For my taste, you have too many one-nighters. I would (and did) visit Lake Bled as a day trip from Ljubljana. I would (and did) give Plitvice two nights. I would take one night from Dubrovnik. I traveled entirely by public transport, and did not find it limiting.

Thanks kja! I needed that. I don't want to return home exhausted and I do enjoy a slower look at the slices of life offered up on travels. So I think I will cut the islands and rethink the rest, but most of it will probably stay.

Thanks thursdaysd. I'm pretty sure about the islands-to skip that is. I agree about the one-nighters, but will have to work with this a bit to figure out how to eliminate some. Lake Bled would be a start.
And LOL! Kja about how much I had originally hoped to cover!

And Iona, xyz99- I loved your photos--esp the old and new roofs--very very nice!.

"And LOL! Kja about how much I had originally hoped to cover!"

You certainly aren't the only person to make that "mistake"! Once you return, I hope you will join the voices of reason. :-)

BTW -- I returned from my trip thoroughly and completely exhausted. That was OK, because I expected it, but keep it in mind if you are comparing your plans to mine!

ok, thanks that's helpful kja. I do have to teach right when I get back and also start right in with my usual clients/patients.

So this is a possible revised itinerary and I would love some input about where to change it and put the 3 extra nights. We fly into and out of Zagreb.


ZAGREB 2 NIGHTS
Fly into Dubrovnik

DUBROVNIK 3 NIGHTS
Includes a day trip to Kotar, Montenangro (rent a car upon leaving Dubrovnik)

MOSTAR 1 NIGHT

SPLIT 2 NIGHTS

PLITVICE 1 NIGHT

ROVINJ 2 NIGHTS

PIRAN ON WAY TO LJUBLJANA
Return rental car before entering Slovenia.

LJUBLJANA 2-3 NIGHTS

LAKE BLED AS A DAY TRIP

ZAGREB 1 NIGHT

Try flying straight from Zagreb to Dubrovnik so you don't have to have rooms in Zagreb at both the start and end of your trip.

Why are you picking up a rental car when you leave Dubrovnik? You can take a bus to Mostar. Having a car in Mostar or Split will only be an encumbrance. Pick up the rental when you leave Split.

If I understand, you are saying that you have 3 more nights? Depends on your interests -- Split (to make sure you have 2 full days for Split and Trogir), Hvar Town (a night or two), an extra night in Rovinj (to have plenty of daylight time to visit Porec and some hill towns, in addition to Rovinj itself), Lovran (just a night), Zagreb (if you like museums, you can easily fill 3 days there), Sibenik, Zadar, Varazdin.....

Thanks, kja. Do you think Zagreb is worth a couple of days? Or would you just add them at the end of the trip?

Is it really that easy and comfortable to take a bus to Mostar? I think Trogir would be a good idea and I thought perhaps that Hvar in October might be difficult . Maybe one more night in Rovinj would be good.

"Do you think Zagreb is worth a couple of days? Or would you just add them at the end of the trip? "

If you enjoy museums, absolutely! I thoroughly enjoyed the 3 days I gave Zagreb -- but then, I enjoy museums. If you don't like museums, give it a day to walk around, as it has some lovely parks and markets and interesting streets, etc. BUT try to put ALL your time in Zagreb at the END of your stay so you have one less change of hotels. You're flying out of Zagreb, right? So you MUST be there at the end of your trip. If you can, go straight from your arrival in Zagreb by flight to your flight to Dubrovnik without staying overnight. If that isn't possible, then split your time in whatever way makes most sense. And if you do plan to visit any museums, check their schedules -- most will be closed on Sunday afternoons and Mondays.

"Is it really that easy and comfortable to take a bus to Mostar?"

Yes. And MUCH nicer to be able to relax and enjoy the gorgeous scenery than to have to watch the roads.

"I think Trogir would be a good idea"

It's only about 1/2 hour from Split by bus, is charming, and it has some absolutely amazing stonework!

"I thought perhaps that Hvar in October might be difficult"

I could easily be mistaken, but I thought there were daily ferries between Split and Hvar Town year round. Check to be sure! I admit that I thought Hvar Town a bit to upscale for my tastes, but I can't imagine visiting southern Croatia without visiting at least one of the Dalmatian islands....

None of your options are bad -- it really depends on what you want to see and experience!

Thanks kja. I will check on flights from Zagreb to Dubrovnik next week when we are back from the weekend. I am hoping the domestic airport in Zagreb is pretty close to the international terminals? And I'll give more effort to discovering what is possible with a visit to Hvar Town.

Flights didn't match up with preferences, so I altered our schedule a bit and this is what it now looks like:
Zagreb------------2 nights
Fly to Dubrovnik
Dubrovnik---------3 nights
1 day trip to Kotor
Rent a car and Drive to Mostar
Mostar------------1 night
Drive to Split and drop car?
Split--------------2 nights
Visit Trogir
Boat to Hvar
Hvar--------------1 night
Boat back to Split
Rent a car and drive to Zadar (or could go on to Plitvice.)
Zadar-------------1 night
Drive to Plitvice
Plitvice------------1 night
Opatija------------1 night
Rovinj-------------2 nights
Visit Motovun and other hill towns
Drop off rental and take public transportation to Ljubljana.
Ljubljana----------3 nights
Rent car for Day trips--Lake Bled, etc.
Drop off car before leaving.
Public transportation to Zagreb
Zagreb------------1 night
Fly home.
I would appreciate input from my knowledgeable travel friends here!

I truly disliked Opatija -- probably the only place I have ever been about which I would say that. Loud, overcrowded, rowdy.... The Villa Angiolina is pleasant, but not enough IMO to justify staying in Opatija. I thought the Lungomare quite lovely, but I stayed in Lovran, not Opatija. Lovran, however, is well passed its prime and might not suit everyone, and I'm not sure you could reach the area in time to really enjoy the Lungomare under even the best of circumstances.

I think you are back to rushing and trying to fit too much into too little time. Please remember, nightfall will be EARLY while you are there, and if your goal is photography, then it doesn't seem to make much sense to me to spend a huge chunk of your daylight time running from place to place (and don't forget, you will need to spend time packing/unpacking, checking in/out, getting to/from the bus station or whatever, getting oriented, etc.) only to leave yourselves with very little time to see anything, let alone see it in decent light.

I'm not saying that this trip isn't doable. I just don't see how it fits your stated interests. But of course, I could easily be wrong!

Why so many short car rentals. This will probably cost you more than keeping the car longer.

Opatija - I had the opposite experience to kja - fairly deserted and quiet.