Permesso Extension: 90-180 days?
 

Hi Italy lovers,

Our Italian consulate here in Canada told me that there is

no such "national visitor's visa" for tourists who wish to

stay longer than 90 days, but less than 180 days (like

those, for instance, offered by other Schengen countries

like Austria). They said that we can only stay 90 days as a

tourist and then must leave for 90 days before returning

again. However, I can apply to have my Permesso di Soggiorno

extended beyond 90 days once I am in Italy, but acceptance

is not gaurenteed and this is considered an exception I

shouldn't count on.

I have read elsewhere of course that if your papers are in

order receiving the extension should be no problem, and I plan to have all my papers in order.

Here is my question: when I appear at Italian immigration to

enter the country and they see that my ticket has a return

date 5 months (150 days) hence, would they refuse to let me

in? That is, the ticket shows that I am expecting to be able

to stay beyond the 90 days without having received

permission to stay that long.

Should I;

1. Not worry about it. They deal with students with "open return" tickets all the time. If they question me, simply show all of my papers that show I am just a tourist, with my own funding and health care, and am intending on returning to my home.

2. Change my ticket to stay only 90 days and then, once inside Italy re-book the return leg after I receive permission? (Since i already have the tickets, I would have to rebook and that would cost an extra $1700--ouch!)

3. Buy a cheap one-way ticket from Italy to, say, Britian leaving before the 90 days are up to indicate that I plan to leave Italy and return home to Canada via Britian, and thus my return date is not important or not applicable.

4. Other options anyone??

Help!

Thanks

Cakeo

Hi Italy lovers,

[posting again with better formatting...sorry]

Our Italian consulate here in Canada told me that there is no such "national visitor's visa" for tourists who wish to stay longer than 90 days, but less than 180 days (like those, for instance, offered by other Schengen countries like Austria). They said that we can only stay 90 days as a tourist and then must leave for 90 days before returning again. However, I can apply to have my Permesso di Soggiorno extended beyond 90 days once I am in Italy, but acceptance is not gaurenteed and this is considered an exception I shouldn't count on.

I have read elsewhere of course that if your papers are in order receiving the extension should be no problem, and I plan to have all my papers in order.

Here is my question: when I appear at Italian immigration to enter the country and they see that my ticket has a return date 5 months (150 days) hence, would they refuse to let me in? That is, the ticket shows that I am expecting to be able to stay beyond the 90 days without having received permission to stay that long.

Should I;

1. Not worry about it. They deal with students with "open return" tickets all the time. If they question me, simply show all of my papers that show I am just a tourist, with my own funding and health care, and am intending on returning to my home.

2. Change my ticket to stay only 90 days and then, once inside Italy re-book the return leg after I receive permission? (Since i already have the tickets, I would have to rebook and that would cost an extra $1700--ouch!)

3. Buy a cheap one-way ticket from Italy to, say, Britian leaving before the 90 days are up to indicate that I plan to leave Italy and return home to Canada via Britian, and thus my return date is not important or not applicable.

4. Other options anyone??

Help!

Thanks

Cakeo

I will venture a very personal opinion, but it is not binding in any way, and I decline all responsibility for any adverse occurrences that may result from following it:

Don't sweat it. No one at the passport control is going to ask to see your return ticket.

And the Italian bureaucrats have other, larger fish to fry.

A friend of mine lived in Italy for 35 years without a "permesso di soggiorno" - before and after the Schengen agreement - flying to North America twice a year. No one ever said "Boo!"

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You may run into problems with immigration officials but it's not likely because you are from Canada and not say, Albania. If you plan to study there, you can ask the school to help you with the paperworks for a student visa. You can always take a train to Switzerland too and get your passport stamped.

I know a lot of Americans who have stayed for a longer than 90 days without a permesso.

Hi C,

I go along with giulia.

They will not ask to see your return ticket at passport control unless you are on some sort of watch list.

Enjoy your time in Italy.

((I))

Hi,

Thanks Giula12. Just to clarify: the nature of the 90 day limit for Canadians (and Americans) is that you cannot just go over the border anymore and get a stamp--once you leave you cannot come back again for 90 days (or more). You can stay in a Schengen area for 90 days within any 180 day period.

Second, the problem with staying longer than 90 days without getting a permesso extension is that they do check your passport on the way out of the country. It will show that I was in Italy for 5 months, 2 of those illegally. Since everything is computerized I could be placed on their "watch list" or barred next time I come in. Italy, although infuriating is actually one of the better EU countries for catching terrorists and such--this is why.

But thanks for your thoughts. I still remain concerned however.

Any more opinions on this matter?

--Cakeo

A good rule in dealing with Italian bureaucracy is that information from bureaucrats can't be trusted. It almost beggars belief that there's no system to allow foreigners, legally, to be in Italy for 3-6 months. I strongly suggest youi check this information with staff at the Ottawa embassy, and double-check with staff at another embassy.

OTOH there's also no evidence I've ever see

Oops, unmanageable new mouse.

Rule 1 in dealing with Italian bureaucracy is that information from its bureaucrats can't be trusted. It almost beggars belief that there's no system to allow foreigners, legally, to be in Italy for 3-6 months. Rule 2 though, of course, is you can't underestimate Italy's ability to create truly doolally laws.

I strongly suggest you check this information with staff at the Ottawa embassy, and double-check with staff at another embassy, like Washington or London.

Actually, there's also no evidence I've ever seen that good-faith overstayers like you actually DO get put on a watch list. But you'll certainly be in trouble if you want, on day 91, to get an easyjet to London or Geneva.If you check into an Italian hotel on day 91 you're liable to get nabbed. And WHEN (not if) security gets tightened because the Mafia kill another judge or terrorists have yet another go at doing whatever terrorists are trying to do, you'll get caught up in the random papers checks that always follow: I've never spent more than 3 weeks in Italy without being asked for papers at some point.

And your option 3 just won't work.

So rule 3 of dealing with Italian bureaucracy. If they HAVE designed a system that makes sensible life illegal (and they do), thank God they're surrounded by countries that have competent systems of government. (Most countries subcontract trivia like making clothes to more efficient foreign societies. Italy subcontracts government) I can't guarantee this works, but try getting yourself, by hook or by crook, a 6-month visa for Austria or France. Which of course is valid in Italy.

Good luck, and try trawling sites like escapeartist.com and expatriates.com. Rule 4 is that it's always possible to <i> sistemarti</i>

Thank you Flanneruk for your response.

Here are my comments:

1. I will double check with another embassy--good advice.

2. I will consider getting a Visa for another Schengen country--also good advice, but unfortunately i am running out of time to get one before I leave.

3. I am not sure why you rule out option #3. I plan to tear up the ticket, but I do not plan to stay illegally past 90 days, but will apply for a PdiS extension, or leave.

The question stil remains on simply getting in the country--will a 5 month ticket raise barr me from coming in as a tourist?

Thanks!

Cakeo

If you intend to stay longer than 90 days for legitimate reasons, such as a semester study, I suspect that you will be granted a temporary permit while the visa is being processed. And that is what will keep you legal in Italy. That happened to me a long time ago in France. I stayed there for 15 months on a piece of paper stating that I had applied for a student visa.

UPDATE:

The following site is the official site that the consulates in Canada direct visitors to for all visa questions:

http://www.esteri.it/visti/home_eng.asp

Everything is very clear here (it seems). As a Canadian residing in Canada (and for US citizens residing in the US), there is no such thing as a tourist visa beyond 90 days, period.

However, there is a Visa for Canadians called &quot;elective residency&quot; for greater than 90 days. Elective residency is a &quot;Type of visa foreseen for foreign citizens who intend to reside in Italy without working&quot;. This is what I want. However, time is really running out--I am probably way too late for the consulate to process this Visa before I leave (Dec. 31).

But--and bear with me here, my wife is a UK citizen (which is not a EU-Schengen passport country), and she is allowed into Italy for greater than 90 days for &quot;elective residency&quot;. By showing I am married to her, can I slip through the border with her??

Thanks for following this thread everyone.

Thoughts??