amyb, that is very interesting about the demonstration in Paris. I almost added in my earlier post that I WOULD carry my passport with me if I were in a country where I felt I might need it e.g., if I could imagine a situation where I might need to simply get myself to the airport and OUT. Not typical for most European countries.

I've used a leg stash and prefer it to a money belt, especially in hot climates. I've used it in Bangkok and Cambodia, but never felt the need in Europe, even in the large cities. I'm a big proponent of "awareness" as the biggest deterent to theft. That, and looking like you know where you're going and what you're doing (even if you don't).

The only times I've been asked for my passport (aside from entering & leaving a county) is when checking into hotels overseas. That said, every hotel has asked to see it. I've never bought enough for a VAT refund, nor been asked for it in shoppes, restaurants etc. And I too do not trust hotel safes, I carry it in my bag, safely tucked away in a zippered compartment. I've yet to encounter a pickpocket, or problems when travelling (always solo) in any european, scandinavan or asian city. Perhaps I've just been lucky--but in my 30 odd trips abroad in the past 5 years (knock wood), but I'm not going to change my travel patterns now, or start to wear a money belt!

Are there money belts that won't show under the clothes available for people who wear low riders? Skirts? Money pouches for women who wear cropped tops? It seems like all this stuff is made for people who wear baggy, frumpy clothing, but forget it if you want to wear something "normal" (at least for me). Or...?

lillehavfrue, there is a silk one from Eagle Creek that I liked. It seemed a bit smaller than the other ones, but could easily hold a railpass or a plane ticket. The bottom corners taper and curve, making it less visible through clothes. I put my passport, credit cards, money and a couple of compact flashcards in it, then slung it low across my hips. It was fine for my low rise, snug jeans (although I don't wear anything remotely low as J.Lo or Britney Spears!!). It wasn't totally invisible under my clothes, but I was fine with it.

Just curious, anyone know what a passport goes for on the streets of Europe? All this worry and concern re: the theft of passports indicates that they must be very desirable items to thieves. How much could they get? $50, $100, more? Is it enough for a maid to risk her job for?

BTW, I always leave it in the room. I believe the risk of my losing it if it's on me is greater than it being stolen from my room.

"Always keep your passport on your person, preferably in undergarmants..."

I tried to hide our passports in my wife's undergarments, but it made too much of a scene when I constantly tried to grab my passport.

Definitely not in undergarments.

Wouldn't want to be mistaken for a Brit carrying a brown passport or a non-citizen carrying a green one upon return to the US.

When you talk of a copy of the passport, are you referring to the front page only, with photo and passport number, or do you need the pages showing immigration stamps also? I've never heard of copying a passport.

unless you are crossing country borders, why would you carry your passport. you don't carry it around on you when you walk about town do you?

I do agree making several copies is a good idea. I make one copy for each piece of luggage no matter how small. I write my rough itinerary on the copy, as well as contact numbers. that way, if my suitcase is lost, they have a good way to find me, and, once I've arrived, I have many copies of the front page of my passport just in case I need it. (gets lost, stolen etc.)

What do to with money belts when wearing low riders? I've taken old money belts and sewed them directly to my pants (minus the belt) just below the waist belt. You can't see them, and are more comfortable in hot weather. Then, I removed them when I return home.

I carry mine in a secure pocket. I gave up moneybelts with the proliferation of ATMs.

I had to laugh about the remark that people who wear normal clothes can't wear moneybelts. I feel the same way, they are so bulky and visible and uncomfortable. I tried wearing one once or twice and couldn't stand them. I could understand the very small ones you could put on an ankle for just a credit card and few dollars, but a passport wouldn't fit into a small one, and a passport is bulky enough you need a large pocket.

Anyway, I don't do any of this stuff, I'll admit. I am just careful with my belongings and have never been pickpocketed or approached. I often carry it in my purse, but sometimes I just leave it in the hotel safe, etc. I have never been asked to show a passport much except at the airport. I think some hotels ask to see it, but I don't remember that very clearly (I have not stayed in Italy). I know they did in Egypt (I think they kept it). Other than that, they may have looked at it, but didn't keep it.

no, I have never tried to get a VAT refund as I have never spent that much money in one store in Europe. I do use it to cash TCs, but sometimes I just use a Xerox copy for thatand no one has even refused to cash them if I have other ID like a driver's license with the passport Xerox. I just Xerox the page with the basic info and your photo but I have no current VISAs.

As for what an American passport is worth -- it's a lot. It would definitely be worth someone's trouble to get them. I was surprised when someone on a thread on here said there was no market for stolen Am. passports. I've read figures from about $2,000 (and that was 10-15 years ago), more commonly $4-5,000 today up to $10-15,000 in certain countries (Russia, COlombia, midEast, etc).

I've lived in big cities most of my adult life (NY, LA and DC) so keeping track of my belongings in public and on public transportation is normal to me. I do think if you are going to carry it around with you, it's a good idea to have a copy elsewhere. I always have a copy in my wallet, actually, and when I travel, I have a copy in my luggage pocket.

LOL MAITAITOM!!!

For Italy you must carry valid identification on you at all times. For Americans, Canadians, Australians, the only valid ID is your passport. If you are worried about carrying it around then take a photocopy of it and leave the original at the hotel. If the police stop you for a document check the photocopy should suffice. If not you can invite them back to the hotel to see the real thing.

Interesting. Under what circumstances would Italian authorities ask for my passport and, if I committed no crime, what would they do to me if I have neither my passport nor a copy on me? I thought needing "papers" was just part of Nazi or Soviet history.

The pigs ask you for ID papers in the US too. Especially if you don't look like the shiny white girl/boy next door.

Ummm......

Ok, must admit I haven't read all the posts, but where I live, in Belgium, you are required to carry an ID at all times. This can be a passport, but also a driver's license with photo, although I don't know if a US credit card size license would do. And you can get into trouble if you cannot show ID, to the point of being taken down to the police station. When I travel I usually leave my passport in the safe in my room, but have a drivers license with me.

Hi Tulips, where do you live in Belgium? We were stationed there from Feb '96 to Aug '97. We lived in Havre, near Mons.

I've already posted my sister's experience in Barcelona, but as far as my own experience... I can't remember being asked to produce my passport for any hotels in the places we've traveled (France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, the UK). I've never had any sort of "incident", either, that required me to prove who I was, or anything like that. We always carried our passports with us, and it was fine.

I can see the logic in leaving the original back in the hotel or in your dirty laundry, and carrying a copy. However, I think we were just more comfortable keeping ours with us. With my hubby being military, it was kinda drilled into our heads about personal security, etc. and the importance of not leaving our passports ANYWHERE where they might be accessed by someone other than ourselves. I guess the bottom line is, just do what feels comfortable for you.

Maybe it is best to change the passports hiding places......All the world now know where to look...perphas the hotel's thiefs check Fodors posts and read the comments.....((Z))