Passports for internet access???
 

Hey everybody,

I'm traveling to Italy with my Mother this coming spring. I've been gathering info from this site and elsewhere for a while now, and I just came across something that made me very curious and I wondered if any of you know any more about it....

I read that Italy passed a law in July that now requires internet cafe owners (not sure if this includes hotels with internet points) to get a photocopy of the passport of anyone asking to use the internet. I believe they are also required to obtain first and last name, the machine used, as well as login and logout times.

Does anyone know about this? Or have you experienced it? Also, does anyone know if this is required for using internet at hotels?

Yes, I was just reading about this on Slowtrav.com and according to the posters there it is being enforced by larger IC companies and not being enforced by small ones...sounds typical.

Well I guess that's a good thing ... but the principle of it still bothers me. Thanks for the info :-)

There was some discussion about this yesterday. See the following thread:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34687355

I can't recall for sure -- but I seem to remember this when I used an Internet cafe in Florence (it's the one in the underground level of the SMN train station). I don't think I showed my passport -- might have shown my driver's license.

My passport was xeroxed when I checked my bags at the Padua and Bologna train stations (and maybe Florence also?). I remember the Padua one well, as they taped it to my bag, and I didn't realize that it was a page from my passport until the xerox copy fell off my bag and I took a look.

Good thing I did.

This is an absolute red herring. I have used Internet points throughout Italy this past week (in libraries, bars, plus regular cafés) and never been asked for my passport.

Nevertheless, as the USA becomes an ever more totalitarian state, now demanding (as of yesterday, 4th October 2005) that I cannot enter the country without giving addresses I plan to visit, so equally visitors to Europe from North America must expect to receive the same treatment. A bit tough on Canadians, I know, but that's just the way it is.

hiddeneurope:

What's your source for "cannot enter the country without giving addresses I plan to visit"?

America requires me, and the other 5.7bn non-Americans, to declare - street number, street and postcode - where I'm staying on my first night. That's it.

What makes you so terrifying you have to declare your full itinerary?

I've seen totalitarian states up close and the USA is not one of them by a long shot.

Since the definition of "totalitarian" is subjective at best can we please not get into a political harangue here?

I agree that the measures supposedly designed to "increase security" are sometimes misguided, much less ineffective, but I cannot understand why anyone would be worried about giving an address where they SUPPOSEDLY are going to spend their first night.

I believe that lying about a lot of stuff on Customs/immigration forms when entering the US has become a matter of course for lots of folks to include how much stuff they didn't buy.

Curious, Coopers_mom : why does this bother you ?

Dear caroline_edinburgh:

It bothers me because it's an invasion of privacy. It also bothers me because something like this won't bother as many people as it should.

Does this mean that everybody has to bring a passport to the internet cafe, including local residents? If they did that in the US, there would be a heck of a lot of people who couldn't use the internet because they don't have passports.

Hiddeneurope, I don't understand your point. This does not appear to be aimed at North Americans, but at all internet cafe patrons.

>It bothers me because it's an invasion of privacy.<

Hmmmmmmm.

Why would one expect that the use of a public facility is a private act? Public Internet Points are not secure.

It seems to me that requiring ID to use an IP makes it a little more difficult for the bad guys to use the internet to communicate without reducing the "privacy" of those who use them for legitimate purposes.

If I wish to use the computers at my local library, I have to sign up.

((I))

Dear Simone1:

Thanks for the link. I keyed in various buzz words before I posted this topic, and I couldn't find anything. Sorry for the double thread.

Dear ira:

I know that internet use is far from private, but to take the extra measure of asking for a copy of one's passport is a step beyond.

Hey, it's all about what gets your goat. This gets my goat. Just my opinion.

And at least one internet cafe is closing because "he doesn't want to be a "cop" anymore."

http://csmonitor.com/2005/1004/p07s01-woeu.html

Before the law was passed, Savoni's clients were anonymous to him. Now they must be identified by first and last name. He must also document which computer they use, as well as their log-in and log-out times.

Like other owners of Internet cafes, Savoni had to obtain a new public communications business license, and purchase tracking software that costs up to $1,600.

The software saves a list of all sites visited by clients, and Internet cafe operators must periodically turn this list into their local police headquarters

Hi CM,

OK. However, don't you have to show ID to take a book from a library, to get on an airplane, to use a railpass, to rent a car, to register at a hotel, to rent a video, to cash a check or money order, etc

This is no worse than video cameras monitoring the streets.

((I))

Coopers mom - I was in Italy last week and used several internet points.

I was asked for proof of identity, for which I used my passport - but this was certainly NOT photocopied at any outlet I used.

If they had insisted on a photocopy I would not have used the facility.

Steve

P.S. Hiddeneurope - this is not a 'red herring'.

Hey Ira,

No, it's not any worse than video cameras patrolling the streets. You're right. It's just *another* thing. What's next? DNA samples? :-)

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the info. I don't have a problem providing ID, but having someone make a copy to me, is a bit much.

Cheers,
Sondra

Yes, the new law permits DNA collection - according to the article.

Also, according to the article, managers of internet cafes were instructed to make photocopies of passports and the owner quoted had stacks on his desk.

>> After Italy passed a new antiterrorism package in July, authorities ordered managers offering public communications services, like Mr. Savoni,to make passport photocopies of every customer seeking to use the Internet, phone, or fax.

"This new law creates a heavy atmosphere," says Savoni, his desk cluttered with passport photocopies. He is visibly irritated, as he proceeds to halt clients at the door for their ID.<<

<<having someone make a copy to me, is a bit much...>>

While I agree with the principle of preferring to be able to communicate in secrecy, privacy and anonymity... clearly that is exactly what enables easy communication between would-be bad guys.

If a business is not required to keep any records of the documents presented, then what is the point - - and what "enforcement" could there possibly be, with regards to those internet venues who do not comply (well... or at all, for that mattter).

You DO have the choice of using your own personal handheld wireless devices for text messaging... or even full internet access, you know. They're called cell phones.

Not.. perhaps... as cheaply - - but by the time this post is x months old, the cost may be trivial.

Best wishes,

Rex