Actually it's the prices listed for the apt which is notable, €496 a night or more.

Yes, I am repeating myself.

However, companies like Airbnb are working with Paris city officials to resolve issues.

But some refuse to acknowledge ongoing conversations with Airbnb and Paris city officials.

Not a problem for me, but I THINK that city officials, knowing that Airbnb has close to 40,000 apartment in Paris, does bring in revenue to merchants.

They now have to solve the tax issue.

It seems to me that brubenow has done quite a bit of research re her apartment rental. It is certainly possible that Paris Perfect is not being truthful re the legality of the apartment but, what if they are not lying? Surely there are some legal apartments out there. She has asked for assurance that they are legal and that they will relocate her or refund her money if there are problems. What more should non-French speakers do if wanting an apartment stay?

I would hate to be a person complying with the law and have anyone ask about my apartment on Fodors.

judy; A very astute comment.

iris - what statistics have you come up with? All you - and other people who are pro-apartment-and-the-neighborhood-be-damned - have to say is what a fabulous experience you have every time you rent. Of course, you are all entitled to your opinions, but many people are more interested in the facts of the situation.

Will you be around to help people whose rentals fall through at the last minute? Will you be on hand to help them when they can't reach the owner/manager and the plumbing/elevator/wifi is on the fritz? Will you be there when the Mayor's agents knock on the door to inquire who is living there? Of course you won't. Don't assume responsibility for something you cannot provide, which is the assurance that someone else's trip will go as well as yours has in the past .

People who live in Paris have been affected adversely. This is why the Mayor is taking action. The statistics, legal reports etc are all here for anyone interested in actually reading them - instead of just reacting in a knee-jerk fashion to news they do not like. Perhaps you own rental property, or know someone who does, and stand to lose business when people report facts? Perhaps you are afraid that "your" rental won't be available next time you visit Paris?

According to the Mayor's survey of online apartment listings, there are more short-term rental apartments being advertised in the Marais (3rd and 4th arrondissements combined) than there are actual full-time residents. That's the crux of the problem, right there.

sarastro - I cannot access the information, either. I have had the same trouble with a couple of other rental sites, too. I agree that it has to do with some form of geo-localisation.

kerouac - This is absolutely correct. Neither the agency nor manager is liable for anything whatsoever. They can provide all sorts of paperwork stating that they are in compliance with any and all regulations, but that doesn't matter at all. Only the property owner is required to conform to the law. Unfortunately, owners use agencies and managers to avoid being in contact with clients. If an owner handles the rentals himself, you have no way of knowing if what he tells you is the truth.

Judy - if you are a person complying with the law, you would have nothing to fear, regardless of where you mentioned your apartment.

Of course, according to the Mayor's estimates, there are only approximately 600 apartments in the 20 arrondissements of Paris which meet the legal criteria for short-term rentals. The other 30,000 which are listed online do not.

manouche; <more interested in the facts of the situation>

What facts have you provided except for broad

generalizations.

In other words your own opinion, which you have a right to do.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm looking to connect with Stu Dudley. DH & I will be in Paris first week in October (yes, in a Paris Perfect apartment) and would love to arrange to meet.

As for the very hot topic of Paris vacation apartment rentals, we've been renting nearly yearly since 2003: sometimes from individual owners, sometimes from agencies. Given the current rental climate in Paris, I am much more leery to rent from an individual owner. Nothing in life is a guarantee, but I feel that a large reputable agency will serve the short-term vacation renter better at this time - at least this renter! Guess we'll just have to see how it all unfolds over the coming years....

My e-mail is

[email protected]

Stu Dudley

There have been several links to factual information - within this very thread - which have been provided by other posters. Perhaps in your haste to condemn anyone who does not agree with you, you have overlooked them.

In addition, I and other interested Fodorites have posted links to similar factual information on many other threads regarding this topic.

I simply see no need to repeat this information for people who obviously have no inclination to read it in the first place.

Indeed Manouche, but we post for people who might have no clue as to the situation.
People like you, me, Iris know or should know about it.
We then make or choices, taking into consideration or rejecting information as we choose fit.
Unaware posters haven't got this opportunity.

I wish just ONE person who has had their apartment pulled at the last moment, due to the crackdown, would post their experience.

Because really, all we're hearing are "reports" from over-zealous ex-pats beating their chests, purporting to be experts when they are not.

People have reported on travel forums that their apartments have been cancelled at the last minute - from AirBnB, VRBO, as well as the "usual reputable rental agencies". It's also there on other review sites - again, for those who care to look.

And the response is always: "Oh - ONE rental! Big deal!"
But when it happens to someone - especially someone with a family or other special needs - it's no picnic.

Do you really expect an owner or agency to admit that their property was pulled because they were doing something that is against the law in Paris?

<i>all we're hearing are "reports" from over-zealous ex-pats beating their chests, purporting to be experts when they are not.</i>

No one is claiming to be an expert. There are simply those who read the local newspapers and watch the local newscasts and there are those who live elsewhere, who have their minds up and no amount of updated information will change their opinions.

Quite a few people have posted about their apartments being cancelled very late. Luckily, a number of them had rented through agencies that were able to provide another apartment. The cancellations are always due to "plumbing problems" or "renovation" or whatever. Nobody is ever going to admit "I am cancelling your reservation because I was caught red-handed renting illegally on the last rental."

There have always been apartments pulled at the last minute for those plumbing problems. It's never happened to me, but I've read about them for years.

I've had no personal experience with airbnb, but wouldn't rent with them anyway, so I have no idea whether there are more or less cancellations than before with them.

What I haven't heard are the dire reports certain posters are claiming. I'm not saying there isn't a crackdown. I'm not saying the rental landscape hasn't changed.

What I AM saying is that the incidence of cancellations doesn't affect the VAST majority of people and the scaremongering continues here as it did on TA.

And as far as the claims of a housing shortage in Paris being blamed on the number of rentals, that's a dubious claim, at best. But I suppose it does further the cause of the chest-beaters so it must be believed.

<those that live elsewhere, who have there minds mad up, no amount of updated information will change there minds>


WHAT UPDATED INFORMATION???

<quite a few people have posted about their apartments being cancelled very late>

OK, how many have been cancelled very late??

Let's see, Airbnb has upwards of 40,000 apartments in Paris.

How many of their apartments have been cancelled at the last minute??

All these generalizations mean nothing.

As for web sites posted, these same people know I have posted web sites that say the city of Paris is working with companies like Airbnb to resolve any problems.

Someone is keeping their head in the sand. I wonder who??

City of Paris is working with Airbnb...
What does it mean ?
Like : 'US is working with Iran to stop the nuclear program' ?
Or you have something more concrete ?

This just means nothing, Iris.

No generalizations.
National (French) newspapers telling authorities are checking, increasing checks and fining owners.

But I suppose untill it is posted in Washington post or mailed it to you, this will remain generalities.

I wonder who wants to put people's heads in the sand too.

pariswat; Same old, same old, but you are so good.

Appreciate your comment.

I am amazed to find this information by chance! I get the gist that if you are visiting Paris, you should stay in a hotel. But if, for whatever reason, you would prefer an apartment, how would you know of these restrictions? Just googling Paris rental apartments gives a bunch of rental websites but nothing with the warnings/caveats that it might be an illegal rental.

I don´t think that anyone wants to dictate where someone stays. What is important is that one´s choice is an informed choice. Paris is indeed cracking down on short term vacation rentals, most of which are illegal.

There is no law against advertising any type of apartment and that only apartment owners are fined for not registering their vacation rentals with the city.

The greatest danger to the consumer is that the apartment you think you have rented for your vacation, may be suddenly withdrawn or that a specific property, to which you may want to return, may no longer be on the market.

howland - You're right - because of the apartment craze that began around 2008, everybody just assumed it was OK because nobody said otherwise. Most guidebooks, internet and blogs all say that it's absolutely the only way to visit a city and live like a local. Everybody does it so it must be OK. That was true in the past, but no longer applies in Paris.

There is NOT a lot of widespread information about the illegality of vacation rentals in Paris but the same could be said for San Francisco, Hawaii, New York, New Orleans, Barcelona, London and other cities trying to ban this practice. And that's because advertisers like HomeAway, VRBO, AirBnB and TripAdvisor spend huge amounts of money making sure their product is front and center. But if you Google "vacation rentals legal in XXXX city" you will find loads of interesting articles. Since more cities are thinking about banning vacation rentals, it would be a good idea to do this research in any city you're considering.

The majority of short-term vacation rentals have been illegal in Paris for years, but as the number of them grew to the point where they adversely affected residential housing and the government was losing important tax revenue, the Mayor's office decided to take serious action. The official crackdown began in early 2009. Unfortunately, it takes time for accurate news to travel, especially when it involves a topic that many people do not find acceptable or will have a negative effect on their bank accounts.

In Paris, there is no way for a renter to know for certain if the person listing the rental owns the apartment, lives there full-time and has the legal right to rent it. There is no way to know when or if an apartment will be cancelled at the last minute for any reason. As in any product purchased sight unseen via the internet, you might or might not get what you paid for, or might lose your investment due to a scam artist.

Many people who frequent travel forums report always renting in Paris with no problems whatsoever. Reports from others who have been less fortunate are more difficult to find, due to search-engine options on travel forums and repression of negative reviews on websites.

Bottom line - in Paris, if you need a kitchen and a little more space, book a legal apart'hotel like Citadines, Adagio, the Helzear, the Prince Regent. Some locations are more reasonably priced than others and there are internet specials available. If you need laundry service, there are efficient, inexpensive, clean coin laundries in any neighborhood. Beware of "apart'hotels" that do not include front desk service and require you to receive a key in the mail or from someone who will greet you at the apartment. These are most commonly illegal rentals in disguise.

Otherwise, there are more than 6000 hotels in Paris. The majority of them are centered in the most desirable neighborhoods for tourists. Many of them have family rooms that can sleep 3 to 4 people in one room and adjoining rooms are available for those who need more bathrooms. The overwhelming majority of them are clean and have what you need for a nice visit, including air conditioning and mini-fridges. They are also easy to book, and many offer free cancellation if you change your mind.

Most people do not need to stay in a rental during their visit to Paris. Clever marketing and social media have made this seem like it's the only way to go. But people have been visiting Paris for hundreds of years without "living like a local". They will certainly continue to do so.

Good posts above.
on top of what has been said, a good way to spot an illegal rental is if the renter asks to be paid in cash.

Indeed, that is a good post for one side of the story.

This is now part of the other side of the story.

And I understand both sides can be presumed prejudicial.

This info has been talked about and now it's official.

Does it seem like Paris and Airbnb are attempting to work together?

http://publicpolicy.airbnb.com/airbn...e-destination/

<i>This is now part of the other side of the story.</i>


Exactly what are these <i>sides of the story</i>? It´s very easy to understand; either your are renting a legal apartment or you are not.

As for the airbnb story posted, it has almost nothing to do with renting illegal apartments in Paris and everything to do with airbnb´s responsibility to collect and forward the <i>taxe de séjour</i> which, in violation of the law, airbnb has never done.

Good !
So Airbnb is cooperating.

Now authorities will have info about where the tax has been collected, for how many nights, from whom.

It will normally simplify the task of the inspectors who must enforce ALUR law.

What will be owners in violation with the law now do ?
Stop renting ? Make investment, change the appartment into a commercial appartment and comply or sell out and look for something else or stay in the illegality, with or without Airbnb.

And start paying taxes on their rental revenues, which would mean a dramatic drop in their revenues or a hie in the price of the rentals (what hotels are hoping for) ?

The FATCA banking regulations have already taken care of a lot of illegal rentals, since people with bank accounts now have to give much more detail to the government about where the cash comes from or find much more creative ways to hide it. Several banks in Paris just lowered the limit for weekly cash deposits to 1000 euros, so that will be inconvenient for people taking rental fees in cash. The new rent control law will probably impact agencies a little more since they are more visible than individuals. In Paris, AirBnB has only agreed to require their clients to collect the taxe de sejour. AirBnB's stance has always been that it is up to the individual to declare and pay appropriate tax on revenue since all they provide is paid advertising which doesn't break any laws. The same can be said for any other agency listing vacation rentals. Individual property owners can be held responsible for breaking the law, whether they are aware it exists or not.

Paris is a great city to spend the summer holidays.