Paris to Venice on the new Thello sleeper train
 

I've just ridden the new Thello overnight sleeper train from Paris to Venice. If you want to see a video account of the journey to see for yourself what the sleepers, couchettes and restaurant car food is like, it's at www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfjiaO2lyOw

I thoroughly enjoyed the trip, slept well, and I'm pleased to say it's vastly improved over its lacklustre predecessor Artesia. Investment in the car interiors is where Thello needs to raise its game, as it currently uses the same elderly Trenitalia sleeping-cars and couchettes as its predecessor Artesia, but everything else is streets ahead. I'd happily use Thello again, whereas I had stopped recommending Artesia!

The train now leaves from platform 'M' of the main concourse of the easily-accessible and well-equipped Paris Gare de Lyon, no longer from the remote and poorly-equipped Gare de Bercy. You can have a drink or meal at the famous Train Bleu restaurant before boarding!

The sleeper train was platformed in good time, it left promptly and arrived at Brescia (where we left the train) spot on time. Staff were all new, and were friendly and helpful in both the sleepers and restaurant car.

The food was also way ahead of Artesia, it's now provided by Skychefs, a subsidiary of Lufthansa. Allowing for the constraints of providing complete meals economically on a train, dinner was remarkably good, with lentil and curried chicken soup followed by grilled Atlantic salmon steak and wild rice, then raspberry and chocolate tart, all accompanied by an excellent half bottle of Chianti and rounded off with a decent cafe latte from the restaurant car's expresso machine. The 3-course dinner cost 28 euros, the 37.5cl Chianti 12 euros. I almost went for a nice Cognac to round it off, but didn't on this occasion!

When we returned to our sleeper compartment the beds were made up, with clean sheets, plump pillows and soft duvets replacing Artesia's old blankets. Each berth had a reading light and a handy power socket for laptops and mobiles, which worked fine.

The ride was very smooth indeed, on well-maintained track all the way, and our sleeper was very quiet too - unless you opened the hopper window, when you'd suddenly hear all the track and wind noise!

In the washbasin unit in the corner, each of us got a clean towel, toiletries pack with soap, toothbrush and Thello-branded toothpaste, a tiny bottle of Thello-branded mouthwash, disposable slippers. We also each got a small bottle of mineral water.

The sleeper attendant took our tickets and passport and returned them next morning, so we weren't disturbed by any ticket or passport checks during the night, and he gave us a voucher for a complimentary light breakfast next morning in the restaurant car (that's sleeper passengers only, breakfast is 6 euros for couchette passengers).

The breakfast wasn't huge, just an orange juice, coffee and pain au chocolat.

The sleeping-cars had Closed Circuit TV cameras in the corridor for security, and both sleeper and couchette compartment doors had a security deadlock that cannot be opened from outside, even with a staff key. However, it seems Thello haven't yet fitted the hotel-style card-key locks that I have seen promised in some of the articles about the new Thello train.

I think if you travelled in the economical couchettes, in which fares start at only 35 euros in 6-berth or 55 euros in 4-berth, I think you'd think it great fun and amazing value, and travelling with a group of friends or a family, either using the restaurant or taking a picnic and your own wine, you could have a blast. You just need the 'camping' mentality for couchettes!

The sleepers are far more comfortable than couchettes, with proper beds and a washbasin, 1, 2 or 3 berths per compartment, fares from 145 euros per person in a 2-berth. ButI think it's here Thello need to raise their game, as passengers with expectations of old-style Wagons-Lits luxury may be disappointed.

The sleeping-cars are standard 'MU' ones built by the Wagons-Lits Company 1964-1974, probably a later batch, and when built they were classy vehicles with carpet and decent fittings. However, they were refurbished by Trenitalia a few years ago, before Thello inherited them, and for some strange reason Trenitalia removed the plush carpet and repaced it with grey linoleum, rendering them at a stroke (to British eyes, at least) much more basic and less luxurious. Perhaps the Italian psyche hates carpet and loves grey synthetic flooring?? Add to that some cheap materials such as a sticky-back-plastic mirror instead of a proper mirror, and no amount of new CCTV and power sockets and LED lighting can make the cars look really classy, they are at present a bit tatty. Thello promise sleepers with shower and toilet in due course, and say they will invest once the concept is proven, they've certainly got off to a good start, but higher-quality sleepers is where the money needs to go.

In the meantime, you'll find Thello an affordable, pretty comfortable and fun way to get from Paris to Milan, Verona or Venice without the stresses of modern flying, just make sure you have realistic expectations. Don't expect luxury, just reasonable comfort, if you expect lounge cars with pianos you're thinking of the Venice Simplon Orient Express!

So excited to read this. My father and I have looked at your website for years!

Thanks. I had wondered how this would be and posted a thread a while back. I'm going to link both threads so both will turn up if anyone is searching Thello.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...talyfrance.cfm

Thanks Mark! It definitely looked much better than the Artesia (although I thought the Artesia was better that the cocoon-like pods in some of the City Night Line trains). I still have the little travel pouch from the Artesia line (Milan to Paris) that I keep in my purse -- it's great for little makeup items!

I am a huge fan of sleeper trains and have been for the last 40 years!

Thanks--this is so valuable.

Super info I may try this in the future, Do not sleep well on sleepers usually not a fan miss a lot of country at night too much "train lag" the next day but I love the day trains down. 35 euro for a couchette a good deal for the frugal though. Thanks GREAT report.

Wonderful to have this info-many thanks!

Great stuff. I thought I read somewhere on the web that plans were in the works for a Thello from Paris to Rome? Anyone know if that's the case? I can't find the site I was reading from.

They plan to start a Paris to Florence & Rome sleeper train in June 2012, so stay tuned.

The Paris to Florence & Rome is now scheduled to commence December 2012

Thanks for your detailed report and video. Paris to Venice by train looks inviting compared to airport waiting and lines.
What about toilet facilities? Are they closeby in the sleepers?

Oh my word that looks amazing! I like chilled trips like that. Does it go to London?

Great thread - thanks so much - this settles it, we are taking the sleeper in April!

Each sleeping-car and couchette car has two toilets at the end of the corridor.

You can add a London-Paris connection by Eurostar train at www.eurostar.com - allow 90 minutes between trains, as Eurostar uses the Gare du Nord and Thello uses the Gare de Lyon, a 30 minute transfer by metro (less than €2) or taxi (about €17).

We booked our sleeper Venice to Paris via Rail europe. There are 4 of us traveling, so we reserved two doubles. The tickets have come and the seat numbers for each of us are all over the place. I called and they assured me that the numbers in the sleepers are not contigous as I would expect. Does this make sense?

Click on the cabin layout to see the numbering.

https://www.thello.com/a-bord/Plans_...res/index.html

What does RailEurope charge for two people in a double? Did they charge a mailing fee?

Just starting to research Venice as an addition to our annual Paris in Sept. trip.

How many months ahead can you book a 2 person cabin?

Would you choose Venice Mestre or Venice Santa Lucia as a destination?

seafox----when are you traveling? I'll be watching for your report on this.

Mestre is on the mainland, not really Venice at all. Santa Lucia is the station you want. Coming out of the station to the panorama of the Grand Canal is one of my most favorite memories of Europe.

Hi M,

Thanks for a great report.

However, when I read "The sleeper train was platformed in good time,..." I went into anaphylactic shock and had to be rescued by a local EMS team.

Fortunately, I recovered.

((I))
After the train was platformed, did it transition from the station?

>>>TPAYT on Apr 7, 13 at 10:11am
Just starting to research Venice as an addition to our annual Paris in Sept. trip.
How many months ahead can you book a 2 person cabin?<<<

I'm not sure why seafox used RailEurope (they typically mark tickets up which is why I asked - wondering how much mark up) instead of Trenitalia or Thello. You should be able to book on Thello 120 days in advance. Trenitalia allows 120 days also, but Thello might be easier to use. You will get a PNR e-mailed. You can also use Italiarail which will e-mail your reservation. I don't believe prices don't change on the cabins (there aren't any discounts), but they can sell out. Couchettes do have some advance purchase discounts.

We travelled Paris to Venice on the Thello night train in December.

It was fantastic fun.

Couple and three late teen kids, we booked a 6 bed couchette - 6th seat booked in our dog's name was empty when she didn't show - so we had thwe privacy of the whole cabin to ourselves.

I think it was 35 euro each (210 euro for the whole cabin).

We left Paris at about 8, after having the day to enjoy Paris (Musee d'Orsay), then caught the Metro to Gare de Lyon.

We picniced on the train - food and wine that we had bought from our local shops on rue St Antoine, then settled down for the evening.

Long stop at the Swiss border during the night - lots of snow around - then pushed on through northern Italy.

Stepped off the train in Venice about 9 am - walked out of the station straight on to the Grand Canal, and caught a vaporetto the few minutes to our hotel at Rialto.

It was cold doing the toilet runs to the end of the train carriage, but otherwise we slept fairly well - aware of stopping and people getting on and off, but we were locked securely in our private cabin.

Saved a night's accommodation cost, and the sightseeing days at either end of the journey - although it would have been nice to be able to shower in the morning (left baggage at our hotel, and returned early afternoon to check in).

We did it for the novelty of racing across Europe on a train at night.

But I'd happily do it again - although wouldn't want to share space with strangers in a cabin.

I booked directly on the Thello website - had to wait for the Winter timetable to be loaded, but I think the tickets are normally for sale 120 days before travel dates, and high-demand, cheaper tickets seem to sell quickly. With waiting for the new timetable to be loaded, we were unable to book until about 5 or 6 weeks before travelling, but had no problem getting tix since I was anxiously checking the site 2 or 3 times a day!

Also - when booking, possibly as a result of "operator error" I finished up with tix to Mestre, but checked on boarding and had no problems with wanting to remain for the trip across the bridge to disembark at Santa Lucia.

(Our dog still doesn't know that she missed a great trip, and no one seemed at all interested in why the other "person" in our booking did not show up.)

>>>the novelty of racing across Europe on a train at night<<<

My thoughts exactly!

Apologies to all for not getting back sooner:
- KYBourbon. - thanks the cabin map solves the problem, we are OK
- Why did O use raileurope, well to be honest I started with the Italian train web site and it threw me to raileurope....I did not realize there was as site for Thello directly...stupid me
- we travel end of May... I'll follow up afterwards.
- Why are we doing it ....same as others.. the excitement, mystery and just "cool" feeling of an overnight train to Paris!

- we are six weeks away...and I am dieting...

>>>Why did O use raileurope, well to be honest I started with the Italian train web site and it threw me to raileurope.<<<

Are you sure you were on Trenitalia? It doesn't kick me over to RailEurope and I did a mock reservation all the way to the credit card payment screen. I've never had that happen or heard of anyone being kicked over to RE on Trenitalia. It's common on the French rail site Scnf, but not Trenitalia.

For anyone searching booking this in the future, the Thello website appears to be easiest to use for booking. Thello and Trenitalia charge the exact same price without any mark-up or fees. Trenitalia is a bit trickier to book as it reverts to some Italian on cabin choices that aren't easy to understand.

For the trip mentioned, 2 people in a cabin (private cabin), the price was 360€ (current conversion = $469.87) on Thello and Trenitalia, no fees/mark-ups. Your bank/credit card will charge a percent for conversion (mine charges 1%).

https://www.thello.com/

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...0080a3e90aRCRD

Italiarail is $486 + a $5 processing fee.

http://www.italiarail.com/city-city-tickets

On RailEurope, the price is $496.

Thello, Trenitalia and Italiarail e-mail you an electronic ticket code. You do not need a paper ticket, only a print out of your e-mail code.

RailEurope does not give that option and snail mails a paper ticket. If you are booking late or under a certain dollar amount, RE charges a mailing fee.

Thello has a page explaining how to book on their site.

https://www.thello.com/infos-service...com/index.html

Thello fare chart:

https://www.thello.com/infos-services/tarifs/index.html

kybourbon-----excellent info!!!

Thanks for the info KY - not sure what happened - I wonder if I got nailed by a cookie on my lap top... either way I have the tickets and the sleeper so we are good!

Apparently Thello service from Venice is different than from Paris. Our train last week was a a clunker, that rattled badly through the night When we arrived the beds were made up prior to departure, making the first hour awkward. (and the bunk was broken and could not be put up for the time being) The food was amongst the worst I have had anywhere any place. No linens, no stainless, no glasses, no bottles of wine (as in the video). Instead a dirty table, Pate heated in the can, (yes heated), over microwaved salmon on a paper plate (it was hard and stuck to the plate), and a less the intelligent waiter (he served some things others you had to look for yourself). Best part of the trip was not the midnight banging on the cabin door for your passport (they forgot to collect them earlier)... but it was the 11PM Americans who arrived when we stopped in Milan and occupied the cabin next to us.... they were certain the connecting door was the private bathroom that the "Jersey Shore" style wife was certain existed...after 10 minutes trying to get the door open they gave up! Breakfast was equally bad..... I was so happy to arrive in Paris and get off the tired old nightmare train from Venice.

Yikes! What a nighmare. And we were thinking of taking that train.

Wow! That's terrible. I think most trains are squeaky and the brakes are always screechy. Did the interior look older than in the video? Do you think some cars on the train were newer than others?

Wow - your trip certainly does not sound like as much fun as ours was.

Our self-supply of food avoided issues with on-board catering, and our seats were upright on boarding - we made up the bunks when we were ready for bed - a couple of bottles of champagne and other wine across France.

Our cabin steward was also quite attentive - made sure he collected our passports in Paris so that we wouldn't be disturbed at the border - the daughters thought it an added bonus that he looked like Matt Damon and had an endearing English accent - yes - vulnerable and gullible - one day they'll appreciate their protective father ;-)

kybourbon - yes the interior did look like the video, but it was very tired and beat up... maybe we just got an older one, but the dining car looked no better. It was first noticeable at the train station, we waited by the fast trains for the track to be posted. A old boxy looking train pulled up in between, we all said I hope it's not that one.... it was ..... In many ways, a first class seat may have been the better value

I've been checking the Othello website to release the night train reservations for Christmas/New Year's time from Paris to Venice for the past month, twice each day. Finally, last night , on Oct 17th, it became available. (Othello has not sent me any emails alerts of this availability as promised on their website if you provide them your email address. ) It accepts either Visa or MasterCard for payment, and my Visa card (Chase) rejected the transaction. I had to call the Visa customer service to rectify this problem, and they tried twice with no success. This meant that I had to enter my address, phone number, my family members' names and passport numbers 3 times by now. While I was having this problem, the 4-couchette price went up from 220 eur to 384 eur as I am trying to pay for it unsuccessfully. The bank customer service rep suggested that I try it again 24 hours later.

Seeing the price jump within a matter of 30 to 60 minutes, I then used my husband's Visa card (Bank of America), and it also rejected the transaction. He called the customer service and got it to work the second time...this meant that I had to enter my address, phone number, family member names and passport numbers 2 more times (5 times total!)

For a family of five, I initially wanted to book a 4-couchette plus a 2-bed cabin, but because of the price increase in the 4-couchette, I opted for the 6-couchette at 210 eur. I used my child's name twice so that we can have the entire cabin to ourselves. I checked the Othello website this morning, and the price of 6-couchette went up from 210 to 480 eur...more than doubled overnight.

With all of the negative reviews I've read online, I didn't think that the price would jump up so quickly. If you're planning to take the night train after Dec 15, be diligent in checking the website. I emailed them, asking when they would release the train schedule, and they replied mid-October. I checked everyday starting September...just in case. Also, try contacting your credit card company ahead of time so that the transaction does not get rejected. If it does get rejected, call the customer service right away. The cheap fares get reserved very quickly.

Now that I have secured the cheap fares, I am starting to pray that it won't run out of toilet paper and that the bathroom floor will not be flooded. Whether it is a good (or bad in this case) decision to take the night train, I am certain it will be a memorable experience for our family...something we will talk about for many years to come.

Correction to above date: The night train schedule for late December became available Oct 16 evening (Hawaii Standard Time) which corresponds to Oct 17 morning Italian time...happy travels

It's Thello, not Othello. Are you sure you were looking at the correct site? I'm able to select a 6 person couchette on Trenitalia for your date for 35€ per person so the discounts are still available. It might be a cookie tracking on Thello. One problem with Trenitalia though is it only allows you to book 5 tickets at a time.

>>>Correction to above date: The night train schedule for late December became available Oct 16 evening (Hawaii Standard Time) which corresponds to Oct 17 morning Italian time.<<<

The issue actually was train schedules change twice a year and are good for six months so it doesn't really have anything to do with Italian dates/times. Winter schedules start 2nd weekend in Dec. and summer schedules start second weekend in June. It's random when they get loaded into the system so Oct. 16 or 17 really doesn't have any meaning. Next year they may show up in Sept. or perhaps not until Dec. It's totally unpredictable and you just have to keep checking when trying to book things beyond current schedules.