Paris: students on a rampage

Mar 18th, 2006, 10:58 AM
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 34,527
I'm betting the new law will pass whether the students like it or not. France has to be able to compete on the world stage and some things have to change. These students want guaranteed employment and living in a socialist country they know they aren't going to "starve" without a job. Everybody wants to make a hundred grand a year but they want cheap goods at the same time. There are no guarantees in life anywhere. I owned a business 22 years ago with a partner. He one day told me that I was out, that sudden, that simple. I was the minority partner and I had no choice. That same day I went to JC Penny and got a job selling shoes, at night I contacted clients that I had worked with in my other business and within three months I quit Pennys because my business was growing and I have had my own partners by the way...ever since. I could have sat around and whined and cried about the wrong that was done me and had the bill collectors calling, lost my house etc. or I could get off my butt and do something for myself.

Having said all that, I also understand that there are plenty of "wrongs" that have been done to employees..Enron and the like..I will NOT shop at Wal-Mart ever and I realize that they don't miss me one bit. Over time many jobs have come and gone. This law in France WILL be passed..perhaps I will live to eat those words but I don't think so..and the students will just have to live with it and they will be better for it in the end. I love Paris in the springtime, I love Paris in the fall, I love Paris in the winter when it drizzles, I love Paris in the summer when it sizzles, but France has a lot of problems and they can't grow their economy and compete globally without making some changes.
crefloors is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 11:01 AM
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 111
I'm sorry but I see the side of Kerouac and the students. France is being "G-8'd" which means take away benefits, lower wages, destroy the middle class (if one exists).

"Chances are that all they will accomplish is to force businesses to increase 'outsourcing'"

Sorry again, but that's nonsense. By taking away the job security, the employers are free to outsource and will quickly. America has been G-8'd by the "resident", the one the latest Pew Research Poll reveals the most popular one word description of him is "incompetent" "idiot" "liar". I'm not kidding. google it. What will result in France with a 20 % unemployment rate which is worse off than America to begin with, is exactly what has happened to hundreds of thousands of Americans, they're unemployed with the encouragement of the govt. to outsource their job - as a matter of fact, the govt. is subsidizing companies who outsource their jobs. You think globalization -G-8'ing, the IMF and the WTO is a good thing? It's good for the corporations, not the workers. Think slave wages. Think 1 % obscenely rich and the rest of the world's population subsisting minimally. That's the goal. At least the French have
the motivation to get out in the streets instead of sitting in front of their tv's with their thumbs in their mouth.
mahya is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 11:46 AM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 773
France can not compete in today's world if they protect an employee who is lazy, incompetant, or dishonest. I don't care how educated you are, if you can't produce, then you got to move on. A company is in business to make money for the owners/shareholders, not provide lifetime employment.
NorthShore is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 11:54 AM
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Posts: 1,314
"If workers under 26 can be dismissed within their first two years, then the next step is workers under 30, workers under 50, etc, etc, etc.

It's a slippery slope folks."

Good. Businesses ought to be able to fire any worker any time for any legitimate reason, regardless of age. The idea that an employee has a "right" to a job is pure BS. Employment must be a *mutually* beneficial arrangement between the worker and the firm, otherwise one is subsidizing the other.
Edward2005 is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 11:59 AM
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Edward 2005 I agree in a way ask GM.
Graziella5b is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 12:00 PM
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In the vast majority of cases, a company is not going to fire a productive, honest worker who they have invested time and money in to train, unless they have a very valid reason.

I wonder if any of these "lifetime income for breathing" posters are small business owners? Do you practice what you preach?
NorthShore is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 12:11 PM
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Posts: 74,334
>Businesses in the USA are allowing potential employees opportunities to work without pay as a means of qualifying their abilities and personalities. <

Nonsense. They are getting free labor.

When I was in the Professor business I insisted that our interns be paid, and they were.

The protection for the business partner was that if the student messed up, their grade suffered.

ira is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 12:17 PM
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 111
"A company is in business to make money for the owners/shareholders, not provide lifetime employment. "

Aha! That's the crux of the matter. Companies used to be in business to make a living for the owner and a living wage for the employee. If the employee was good, the job could be a lifetime of 10 20 50 year job.

Now that the "shareholders" are involved, we have the Enron's who fake their bottom line in order to keep Wall Street happy, companies that have massive layoffs in order to raise their bottom line figures for Wall Street, and companies that outsource where people earn $1 a day instead of $10 an hour.

Does a CEO need to make $67 million salary and the employee $25,000 a year?
I don' think so.

And the end result? The smaller companies go out of business because they can't compete with the large corporations who outsource so they can pay a CEO 67 mil salary.

And that's why you have no manufacturing left in this country. Try to buy something not made in China in even the better stores, never mind Walmart.

By all means support union breaking, lower salaries for higher bottom lines for investors, but what you are supporting is the destruction of middle classes, living wages, and the fabric of society - a return to sweat labor - that's regressive.

mahya is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 12:20 PM
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 777
Re: "I'm betting the new law will pass whether the students like it or not."

I thought the law had already been passed. I read this on a blog devoted to the current student unrest:

On March 7, up to a million people in France demonstrated in opposition to the French government’s plan to pass a new law that was then in the French Senate. The law has come to be known as CPE, the “Contrat Premiere Embauche”; in English, the “First Employment Contract.” Despite the protest, the government passed the bill the next day so that it is now a law. The law was passed in a way that sidestepped the debate and discussion that is a traditional part of the legislative process in France.
nonnafelice is offline  
Mar 18th, 2006, 12:38 PM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 773
A company doesn't go out of business soley because it pays its CEO a large salary. But I also think those CEO salaries are exceswsice, especially in the cases where the company declines under his leadership. Salary should be tied to performance and goal accomplishment.

Union membership has been in decline in America for decades. American businesses are not 1880 sweatshops anymore.

Socialism is not the wave of the future. France meeds to change now or get left behind with an angry young population far larger than spoiled college brats.
NorthShore is offline  
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