Paris: "Smart Chip" credit card the same as "Pay Pass"
 

I've been reading a lot about how our credit cards dont work in Paris since they don't have the smart chip? My question is, I have a MC with "Pay Pass" where you can tap it or wave it over the reader inside of swiping. Is this the same? Or are there no US issued credit cards with this "smart chip"? Apparently you can't use the green and white bike rentals that are all over the city (the new program) or selected ticket vending machines without a smart chip credit card.

Any thoughts?

I don't think they are the same. I just got a new debit card from my bank that is supposed to be pay pass. I keep forgetting to try it until after I've swiped and pinned.

I think you need something with a visible RFID chip in the card. I may be wrong, I'm still trying to figure it out. In the meantime, the inconvenience without it hasn't been much.

If you have been reading carefully, you already know that the chip issue relates only to automatic train and métro tickets, gas stations, the vélos, and a few other things.

I don't think your MC will work in those places, either. But since it will work just about everywhere else, it's really not an issue.

I wouldn't worry too much about it Giulia.

Your card will work most places. Exceptions are train and metro ticket machines and autoroute toll booths.

You can still get metro tickets from a machine by using coins or bills.
We rarely saw lineups at booths with live attendants.

My Canadian M/C worked the ticket machine at the Louvre... not sure if other museums use them or not.

Rob

If you're refering to the Velib, you can check out this thread. Supposedly AMEX cards work but not others.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35126175

It was an issue with my DH and me because we missed trains in Paris this trip. Regular ticket lines were too long.
Part of our travelling fun is going to the station, seeing what's leaving soon and hopping on!
Not possible when it takes 1/2 hour (or more) to get to a person. We don't want to spend the unnecessary extra money for the rail pass.
I called Visa about it but haven't heard back yet.
Sure would like to know how to get something useable!

I just got back from Paris Monday.

My Amex card worked everywhere: ratp ticket machines, restaurants, starbucks, and, yes, Velib.

And, no, there is no smart chip in my Amex credit card.

For the easiest way to use velib, spend the 5 euro for the Navigo Decouverte card. It makes getting your velib bike instantaneous.

The European smart chip bank cards have a visible chip on the surface.

However, there are plenty of cards with a smart chip embedded in the plastic and NOT visible -- the Navigo pass, for example, as well as the card that allows me to enter my office building and use the elevator.

How do you use the Navigo Decouverte pass for the Velib? Do you buy credits to put on the pass? We plan on buying an ND when we get into CDG. Can I charge it up with bike credit there at the RER station?

No, you have to use the Vélib machines. But the process is simplified for anybody with a Navigo.

Ok, that's good, is it pretty self explanatory? I love the idea of the Velib system, and I think it would be fun to use them at times throughout the week.

The chip on European credit cards is not an RFID chip - it has to be placed into a reader for it to be read, not just waved near a reader.

PayPass contains an embedded RFID (wireless) chip. The same technology is implemented in <i>Navigo</i> cards. The cards with the contacts on the outside are called Smartcards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_card
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartcard

&quot;<i>I called Visa about it but haven't heard back yet. Sure would like to know how to get something useable!</i>&quot;

TDudette: I'm not sure what you hope to hear back from visa. US-issued credit cards simply don't use the same technology.

Robespierre: If it's the same technology as the Navigo card then will my Paypass MC work at the Velib station?

I doubt it very much. Every implementation uses its own language - sort of like Wintel and Mac using the same chips but being fundamentally different.

French residents can buy a Navigo card and add a euro-value to the card which can be spent down. Visitors buy the Navigo <b>Decouverte</b> card, which can only be loaded with a Carte Orange transport pass value, which isn't useful for other purposes. So the visitor version, Navigo Decouverte, won't work at a Velib station, correct?

As I stated above, I purchased the Navigo Decouverte primarily for the purpose of using the velib bikes. I was not staying long enough to use the Carte Orange Hebdomaire (the weekly pass).

There are pretty good descriptions of how to use velib here:

http://www.venere.com/blog/paris-velib-bike/

and here:

http://www.slowtrav.com/france/paris/velib.htm

Hi Giulia; Just returned from France and credit cards worked in 'gas stations' and the 'autoroute toll roads'. However, on a tool road, you must make sure you pass thru a toll booth with an 'attendent'. Some did not take American Express, but they all took Visa. Gas stations are the same. You must make sure there is an 'attendent'. ENJOY Iris

Thanks janisj, but isn't VISA an international firm?

I hear what you are saying about diff technology but it is a money loser for Visa to not have its card usable any where in the world.

Anyone know if this is true in Italy as well?

Ok, new morning and had coffee. I see the flaw in my above comment re: Nav. vs. Nav.Decv., in that both are used by residents so both must be able to load value to spend down, not just add transport passes. Thanks for waking me up. :)

<i>I hear what you are saying about diff technology but it is a money loser for Visa to not have its card usable any where in the world.</i>

Not as long as consumers are willing to jump through hoops to use their cards abroad. The card networks have calculated that as long as the fraud losses that chip'n'pin technology could avoid is less than the cost of rolling out millions of new machines, they'll stick with the obsolete way.

Of course, this kind of calculus is emblematic of what's wrong with American business - they won't look beyond the next quarter, where (in this case), the rollout would hurt the bottom line in the short term, but save billions in the long term.

I have a Blink card from Chase. It's like paypass, but the RFID is visible.

I'm assuming that this is still not usable in Europe. Is that correct?

I don't use the &quot;Blink&quot; option often in the states, but I am getting used to using it that way more often, as I don't have to swipe or sign with the Blink.

Get this straight: American credit cards are completely usable throughout Europe. You just can't use them in most automatic machines. You have to go through a human attendant or cashier.

Absolutely true but......

you run into clerks who will tell you the credit card is not usable; most of the time this is not done to try to scam you, they simply in the course of their work do not run into credit cards that do not have chips...they insert the card into the chip terminal and it doesn't work (although the terminal is supposed to tell them to swipe the card).....just smile and tell them to swipe the card (show them in sign language if necessary) or ask to see the manager but don't let them tell you that you have to pay cash.

I agree with xyz--just back from 4+ weeks in France--not too many issues but &quot;swiping&quot; is now second choice for cashiers--they will do it but on two occasions needed help from a colleague and we had one refusal at a resto in Paris. Also, watch out for unstaffed toll booths and gas stations on autoroutes, which can be the case at night. Not sure if there's a workaround for the gas stations but for toll booths just get in the cash lane.

I tried to obtain a US-issued visa or MC with a chip--could not find one--Wells Fargo will imply it has one but it's the tap or wave card, not the same. My AmEx Blue card has a chip and pin but AmEx not too popular in Paris and less so in the country.

We always ensured we had cash and weren't too bothered but if US doesn't catch up soon I can see this becoming a hassle, particularly outside large cities.

My Canadian Visa expired and the new one does have a chip and a pin number, I can not wait to use it in Paris next month!

As France was virtually the first country to roll out chipped cards, their original technology has now been superseded in the rest of the world bya new standard (EMV), which isn't compatible with the original French system. For some time, those with chipped cards issued outside of France (and Belgium) couldn't use chip and pin terminals in France, but had to have their cards swiped. But the French have been modifying their terminals so that increasingly they are compatible with dual standards. On my last visit I could use my UK-issued chipped cards in all but one situation - unmanned independent fuel station, but could be used at Carrefour fuel stations, and all check outs and ticket machines.
So those with a new chipped card has a very good chance of being able to use it in all situations in France, except in a few isolated cases. One of the resons for the slow adaptation of EMV standard in France is that card terminals are usually bought outright by retailers (rather than rented, as in other countries) and many establishments without signifiant foreign customer base have been reluctant to fork out more money for an updated system.

Just to add to my above post that when a non-French chipped card is inserted into a terminal, it seems to take significantly longer to obtain authorisation, often a minute or more. This can cause the shop staff to think there's something wrong with the card and takes it out and attempts to swipe it. Then authorisation is declined (because it's a valid chipped card) so the whole process starts again!
I had a staff member at MacDonalds (of all places!) getting quite impatient with all this but knowing it was a valid card I proceeded to reinsert the card, tap in PIN and wait, only for the keypad to blink and the terminal to print out a receipt!