My 2 cents worth -- How is it that we have arrived at a time in history that we spend more time looking for reasons/excuses for violence rather than condemning it simply because it is wrong? Most of the people in this world that "have" what the "have nots" want weren't born with "it". Unless you are born into wealth that was accumulated through dishonest means, hard work and perserverence are necessary for the success that so many people now feel entitled to.

It seems to me that this idea of "entitlement" is what is causing so many of the problems in the world today. None of us was born with a guarantee of good health, happiness, or wealth. We were born (at least I think so) with the right to pursue these "things", these intangibles.

To assume that we are all entitled to an equal share of the world's wealth is, as I recall, called Communism. A quaint little idea that works in theory only, since it doesn't take into consideration the basic makeup of man -- warts, greed and all.

So, politicians, etc. in looking for a feel good way to appease the disenfranchised, espouse the "Robin Hood" approach to economics, resulting in the belief that the rift between the "haves" and the "have nots" is the reason for all evil, and the eruption of violence against those that "have" is reasoned away.
((c))

I find it ironic that people can totally discount the fact that these "youths" are terrorists, plain and simple. Isn't making excuses for this type of behavior and tip toeing around it precisely the thing that allowed such actions to take place. Next thing you know, someone will post it's all George Bush's fault!

JJ5 said "And the economic belief systems and politics of all of Europe will not easily meld with the immigration rates occurring"

Very true.

Socialist policy and immigration do not mix well.

Also many on the left side of politics (of which there are many in Europe) treat non Europeans with pity, a form of racism in itself, leading to a victim mentality.

People with a victim mentality will often embrace religion in order to achieve some self esteem not possible in a society that treats them as a victim. So it is not the religion itself that is a problem rather the reasons they seek such community.

I am not sure if this is the case in France or not but under normal circumstance where guilt allows for immigration rather than economic necessity equality will be hard to instill. And considering that much immigration was from former colonies it is possible this could be the case.

hdm interested in reading your comments but at first glance I wanted to say, these are not immigrants rioting either, they are French born children of immigrants, the 3-4 generation born in France..

Their parents, grand parents and great grand parents have contributed to the French economy.

Of course the people engaging in the violence are guilty of crimes, but just locking them up (if the French can manage to do that) isn't going to solve the problem. Fact is, there are causes for this violence and, unless they are analyzed and addressed, this will happen again.

Bottom line...is it safe to travel from CDG to central Paris on the RER?

The 'french youths' at question here are niether french nor youths. They do not consider themselves french. Many of them have plenty of money (ill gotten or otherwise). This action is a separatist action; what they want is the same thing that they have been calling for for the past 5 years; autonomy within all the euro countries, separate laws (the sharia variety) eventually leading to tearing down all the 'decadent' western societies. I have read many statements from many muslims from all over europe for 5 years now calling for exactly what we are seeing, and they will probably get what they seek. It was clever to start the eurabian intefada in France as this country has already surrendered. Heck, Yasser Arafat was treated as royalty there.
Someday we may actually take seriously what is said by these people and act accordingly.
To simply call this disturbance a case of 'haves vs have-nots' is dangerously naive.

hdm, I agree with a lot of what you are writing. From what I understand, one of the problems in France has been that there are less jobs available for this generation than there were for their immigrant parents. In the US, the opportunities increased with each generation, but, in France, it has decreased. Racism is part of it, but also, perhaps the general economy is changing and there are less jobs at certain levels of the economy (like in the US, with so many jobs being outsourced). Plus, for some reason it seems to take longer to educate some immigrants into the mainstream culture. Mitterrand used to say that it took one generation to educate most immigrants into the mainstream, but two for the Moslem immigrants. The problems lie in the society and adapting to economic changes, and France has got to figure this out constructively to prevent this from getting worse.

"How is it that we have arrived at a time in history that we spend more time looking for reasons/excuses for violence rather than condemning it simply because it is wrong?"

Because historically ignoring the roots of discontent in this type of a scenario only insures the continuence of violence. Look around the world; Israel, Ireland, England come to mind for me. Pretend that no one has suffered and all you do is stir the pot.

Leaders understand this if they have been around longer than one election or have opened up a history book. This is why you have Chiraq in a quandry at the moment, its not as easy as writing off a group as "scum" or strengthening a police force.

mckie - Evidently, no it is not. Here is the quote ont he US Embassy in Paris web site:

"Travelers using the Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris should be aware that a train between the airport and Paris passes through an affected area and has occasionally been disrupted. Travelers should rely instead on airport buses or taxis to downtown Paris."

http://www.amb-usa.fr/consul/acs/new/francetravel.htm

Orcas what do you mean by educating people into the mainstream culture? Quite frankly I think those remarks by Mitterand and I don't know the context so I may be jumping here but it looks to me like he was demanding that they blend.