Paris Real Estate
 

Hello,

I have an off-the-wall question and I'm not sure this is the appropriate venue. I am traveling to France this year and would like to look for a inexpensive pied-a-terre...don't laugh. I have had difficulty searching online for a company who can help me in my search. Any suggestions?

I'll try to stop laughing at the word "inexpensive". I live in one of the cheapest neighborhoods of Paris (where a lot of Fodorites would not set foot) and bought my 42m² apartment a little more than 10 years ago for almost exactly 100,000 euros. Very ordinary pre-Haussmann building built around 1799. Since then, I have expanded it by annexing the attic, so it is now about 75m² and the current value is something like 350,000 euros.
For an idea of prices, start by taking a look at www.pap.fr or www.avendre.fr.

henry,

I get the free on-line newsletter, Parler Paris which concentrates on real estate in Paris....it may be a good start for you.

Over years of real estate shopping, Century 21 has impressed us with its professionalism. There are several Century 21 agencies in Paris. More generally, you'll have little trouble finding someone in a major Paris agency who speaks English, especially in the core arrondissements, where non-French people are a major force in the market. As Kerouac noted, Paris prices are historically high, with perhaps little upside potential, since even with liberalized financing, a phenomenon of the past several years, the cost of apartments now is pretty much at the limit of the majority of people to pay. Apartment come in a wide range of sizes and prices do vary from arrondissement to arrondissement and neighborhood to neighborhood, and even from floor to floor and according to the exposition in the same building. An "inexpensive" pied a terre in this market would probably start around 150,000 euros, and quickly rise to 250,000, or higher, depending on the neighborhood and quality of the building and the apartment.

Hello henry, are you an American? I ask as I have always understood even if one is not a citizen of France the inheritance laws in France are very different than in the US. So if you are an American (or a nonFrench citizen) you would probably want to check into this before you buy any realestate in France. Best wishes.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. David in Paris, I will try to find a Century 21 office. If you have some recommendations on which office to use...that would be greatly appreciated. As for kerouac, yes I know, I'm probably completely unrealistic with my dream...I'm not even retired yet (about 25 yrs to go) but my dream has always been to live in Paris for some period of time. LoveItaly, I've heard of some nasty real estate laws in France and I'm hoping an agent would be able to guide me through the process. Oh, one more question for anyone-what about working for these "consultants" who take a fee for their search?

Merci!

Love Italy has pointed out perhaps the major consideration for purchasers whose home law isn't based on the Napoleanic code. In France, relatives, especially children, have inheritance rights that can't be taken away be a will. Spouses are relatively disadvantaged. Brothers and sisters may have rights depending on the family situation and what has been done within the limits of the law. Anyone puchasing property should inform themselves. Otherwise, I can't think of anything particularly dire about French real estate law. The legalities of a purchase are dealt with by notaires rather than attorneys. There are English-speaking notaires in Paris, and if you're seriously pursuing a purchase and aren't reasonably fluent in French you should seek one out early on, for your comfort if nothing else. Since we live here and can speak French and have studied both the market and the law, we haven't felt the need of a "finder" or consultant. I'm sure they can be useful but I would want recommenations and I'd check them carefully. (Not sure if there's any licensing requirement for those occupations.) The bulk of property on offer in a real estate agency is located fairly near the agency. There is no "multiple listing" in France, aside from that by sellers who can make separate arrangements with more than one agency. So it makes sense to settle on one or more neighborhoods for searching, and then choose one or a few agencies in or near those neighborhoods.

Actually, I bought my apartment through a Century 21 agency and it was a cheesy little place that did not inspire confidence. Since it is just a franchise outfit, the agencies can vary considerably. Just make sure that your agency is a member of the FNAIM syndicate.

Kerouac,

I think (though am not certain) that Century 21 has changed in the last 10 plus years. We've dealt with two of their agencies more recently and both were fine.

The A Vendre/Louer web site is a fun place to swan around comparing apartment prices. You can pick arrondissement, size, price range, etc., and it includes listings from many different agencies.
http://www.avendrealouer.fr/
(kerouac's www.avendre.fr listing is the same site...it's been updated considerably, I miss its old days with the photo of the three puppies hanging in socks on a washline :-) )

Hi H,

Now that I have wiped the tears of laughter away, :)

You might want to consider looking for a place outside Paris. We found that apartment prices in Auxerre (a lovely town about 1 hr from Paris by train) were about 1/3 that in Paris.

((I))

We bought our studio three years ago for about 100,000E, about 25 meters + an 8 meter private courtyard. We used Paris Real Estate Finders and were very pleased. www.parisrealestatefinders.com

Much of Paris real estate is going for about 6,000 Euro per square meter, if that gives you an idea of what you're facing...

That said, don't give up!! My husband and I are now living in our little apartment and previous to that, we rented it out fairly successfully. You can do it - it is possible! It took us about 1.5 years to get everything in order (save the cash, open a French bank account, etc.) to be able to purchase, and during that period the dollar tanked, but in the end, we still have a place in Paris, and that's all that maters to us.

Also, you say you'd like to find a place in France, not Paris specifically. There are plenty of options in other cities that are far less expensive. Follow kerouac's advice and visit www.pap.fr. Search in different "departments," Paris is department 75 for example.

Good luck!

Yesterday's newspaper mentioned that the city with the biggest jump in prices in the past year was Béziers (due to the A75 autoroute) -- +38% ! And the lowest rise was in Troyes -- +2%.

One of my favorite places outside Paris is La Charite-sur-Loire in far west Burgundy, two hours and 15 minutes from Paris by train, with a half-dozen trains per day. Houses in this charming town of 3,000 on the Loire River, with vineyards nearby, start at 50,000 euros, though 100,000 is a more realistic budget if you don't want to cope with renovations.

Hi henry1,
I have the same dream, and am putting money aside every month. My ideal would ne something on Ile St Louis ;), but I am still struggling with wanting to be in Paris versus living somewhere else and taking SNCF in to the city. The other consideration, which I admit I need to research more, is the idea of hiring an agency to rent out "my place" when not in use. My decision on what $$ are required will be dependant on my yearly costs, assuming it is rented out when I am not there...with an eventual goal of living there perhaps 3-6 mths a year.

Good luck!

Mike

Some links I have. If you search this site, others have posted in the past.


http://www.fnaim.fr/
http://www.orpi.com/
http://www.century21.fr/
http://www.frenchpropertyinsider.com...ribetofpi.html
http://www.franglo.com/classifieds/index.php
http://www.commealacampagne-immobili.../accueil_a.htm
http://democracyonline.org/Apartment...s-for-sale.php

If you look at the Century 21 site, pick 'habiter - bien a la vente', on next page 'achat' 'appartement' budget 'E280000 max' and 'situation-departement 75', you will see some quite inexpensive places BUT TINNNNY ...but it makes it seem within reach!

Michel,

We own property both for our own use and for rental, but do not mix the two. That is possible too, as you well know, but Paris is full of short-term rentals of this nature, and unless you have exceptional property, either high-end, or, in our case, extremely affordable, you can expect quite a bit of inoccupancy. Generally April to July is relatively easy to rent and the rest of the year is a slog. It also is a lot of work - dealing with bookings, greeting, checking out, cleaning, furnishing, repairing, etc. Some or all of this can be entrusted to an agency, but of course, that consumes a portion of the gross rents, and frankly an agency will rarely manage your property as well as you can yourself. I don't mean to discourage the idea. For us, meeting renters and making Paris affordable for people who otherwise might not come is rewarding in itself. But it is good to understand the realities of the business.

Thanks Dave. It's good to hear from someone who is "living it" and not just to read comments from those "selling it". I don't know if I would ever live year round in Paris, since my ties are all in Canada, but I know I need to be there part of the year. I haven't reached the point of seriously analyzing whether it makes sense to rent every year at a higher rate (and maybe get a larger, better located place), or buy, and pay a mortgage, smaller place, less central , and maybe get a little money back from rentals.

Thanks, I enjoy reading your comments here and in other threads.
Mike

If you only want to use an apartment in the summer, the city of Paris guarantees the payment of rent if you rent your place to a university student for a reasonable rate during the school year -- that takes care of all of the low season.