<i>Unless and until the authorities make it clear</i>

The French Government has made it quite clear, short term vacation rentals are banned in any city in France with a population of greater than 200,000 inhabitants.

They are not going to arrest anyone nor put them in jail. Their objective is to maintain as many of the city´s limited rental resources as possible for use by Parisians.

The rental market is in a transition and there has already been a visible shift away from short term rentals in the city. A number of agencies have left the business or converted their efforts to long term rentals and sales. Fines to owners who rent illegally have just been increased from 25,000€ per violation to 50,000€. The risks of renting property are increasing and the potential returns are narrowing. Properties which are available this year, may not be available next year and those who assume the increased risks will probably charge more.


<i>Is what is banned in Paris legal in Pantin?</i>

The ban on short term rentals applies throughout Paris and associated communities. You can go to Senlis and rent short term absolutely legally however.

<i>If the Paris Convention Bureau wants to put up a warning or a checker on its website, then I will pay attention.</i>

The Paris Convention and Visitors Bureau is a private business and is not connected to the French government.

I agree with rs899, and wish to all that is holy that the badgering, as JeanneB accurately calls it, would stop. The French have absolutely failed to enforce their own laws against landlords, and have shown little interest in elucidating the situation for the hundreds of thousands of tourists that flock to Paris from all around the globe.

No tourist is going to help solve this problem when the locals can't seem to do it.

Erecting straw men is fun! "You are a scofflaw, you lack respect for France/Paris/anything, you are a cheapskate, do you break laws at home, too?" But it places the blame on the wrong party.

It sounds like some of you would prefer that tourists be arrested before you will take the law seriously. If you are lucky, perhaps your wish will be granted.

Go ahead Paris, make my day. Arrest me. Do you think that will promote tourism?

If Paris needs to get tough with its hosts, let it. It will eventually affect tourists as properties dry up. But if you make it too hard on me and my vacation, buh-bye...

Maybe its time to go to Asia...

I've said this before but I truly feel sorry for the people trying to rent their apartments legally.

Most tourists are told here and on other sites that the only way to be sure you are not breaking the law is to rent a chain aparthotel. While that is true, it certainly must make it harder for those operating within the law to do business.....wish there was an easy way to find these properties

Ha ha, rs899, as a Parisian I far prefer Asia to Paris. I recommend Hoi An (Vietnam), Luang Prabang (Laos) and Sihanoukville (Cambodia) for a start.

Paris already has too many tourists, so if we can find a way to reduce the number, it will benefit all of us. I'm sure that Airbnb is fully welcome everywhere in Asia.

Kerouac

Living near Orlando, I feel the same way you do about tourists. However, I don't really think our opinions matter all that much to the local authorities who want to put as much money as possible into our local economies. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I see this as a local problem that didn't get attention until the internet made these sorts of transactions possible.

I think that most reasonable municipal authorites understand that permanent residents in appropriate accommodations are more important than fickle tourists.

"Who are these posters who are so concerned about apartment legality....and WHY are they so concerned?"

Not sure if you are referring to me. If you are, I am concerned because I don't get too many vacations and I would like to avoid potential problems that could ruin my hard earned vacation. As we often stay 30 days or so, we prefer the space of an apartment rental (with washing machine, etc.).

When looking at the rental listings, we are trying to understand ways in which we can be sure the one we choose is actually legal.

Not any more complicated than that, at least for me.

<i>Most tourists are told here and on other sites that the only way to be sure you are not breaking the law is to rent a chain aparthotel.</i>

I and others have written a lot of posts explaining how one can rent legally; rent ground floor apartments, rent from someone who definitely lives full time in the apartment, and cross check the address of any high-end rental with the city´s list of approved addresses.

Oddly, the bulk of all inquiries is only concerned about <i>reputable</i> agencies. The problem is not the agencies, it´s their inventories.

The good news is that beginning this fall, the exceptions to the no vacation rental policy should start to become evident as the government initiates the vacation rental registry. Airbnb and others are already on board.

<i> I see this as a local problem that didn't get attention until the internet</i>

That´s true. Illegal apartments didn´t get the government´s attention until the internet caused demand to explode.

So, here is what checking I did earlier this year for the Airbnb rental in Pantin:


"Bonjour David. Allez-vous louer cet appartement en juin? J'ai entendu dire qu'il ya beaucoup de problèmes juridiques de louer airbnb à Paris maintenant. Devrions-nous nous inquiéter?
Feb 28, 2017

bonjour rick,
je loue mon appartement en juin comme convenu,l aspect juridique stipule de louer 120 jours max dans l année, si les 120 jours sont dépassés le propriétaire doit le déclarer aux impôts.
Cordialement
Feb 28, 2017"

Sounded OK to me. But staying in that place for a week, I have my doubts that he actually lived there. There was a lot of his personal stuff around, but it seemed like more of a storage facility rather than a lived in home.

So how can anyone be sure? Ask for his tax returns?

>>Go ahead Paris, make my day. Arrest me. Do you think that will promote tourism?

If Paris needs to get tough with its hosts, let it. It will eventually affect tourists as properties dry up. But if you make it too hard on me and my vacation, buh-bye…<<

Hasn't seemed to hurt New York City where the rules are even tougher and definitely more stringently enforced

More Airbnbs this past New Years Eve in NYC than at the end of 2015.

<i>si les 120 jours sont dépassés le propriétaire doit le déclarer aux impôts.</i>

There is no provision allowing a primary residence to rented beyond the 120 day limit per year. All revenue must be declared.

¨la durée limite légale de location d’une résidence principale par un particulier n’excède pas 120 jours par an comme le prévoit la loi.¨

http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75005...17-6936366.php

Airbnb has already made changes to their software such that no listing may by booked beyond this 120 limit. Once an apartment is booked for the 120 maximum, the listing will disappear on Airbnb for the remained of the year.

http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/ce...17-6718020.php

Once the 120 limit is reached on Airbnb, we may be sure that those renting apartments illegally will continue to rent on another platforms such as leboncoin.fr or VRBO. To preclude this, the government is requiring that all apartments offered on a short term basis be registered.

Beginning this fall, all listings on airbnb and other platforms must display this registration number. The registration number will be the paper trail that enforcement needs to catch violators. With fines now reaching up to 50,000€ per violation, the government hopes that those renting apartments short term will have incentive to return their rental properties to the longterm marketplace.

The registration number assures those renting vacation apartments that they are renting legal apartments.

Enforcement would have been much easier had the government passed a law without exceptions. There are two reasons for the homeowner exemption:

1. Many residents rely on the supplemental income they receive when renting their homes while they are away.

2. The exemption does not reduce the overall number of apartment resources available to residents.

sarastro - it is not always true that "ground-floor apartments are legal rentals".
The direction of the building must agree with all the residents to have it converted into a commercial unit, or a residential unit, to be used only during the 120-day limit.

fuzz's post illustrates the problem. This is Paris' problem to solve.

To be clear, I'm interested in this subject and am perfectly happy to have people post threads devoted to educating tourists on the legalities or renting. But I also used to learn a lot from people talking about a particular apartment, neighborhood, etc.

How 'bout we create a master thread for such a discussion. Then, when someone posts a question, comment or report on an apartment, people can post a link to the master thread...without hijacking the entire post. Too often, I wade through a long thread hoping for an answer to their query but all I get is a lecture about legalities.

I think we need to wait until the end of the year when we will see if the registration numbers really appear.

"fuzz's post illustrates the problem. This is Paris' problem to solve"

Like I said, the casual tourist is never going to be knowledgeable enough to understand either the basic requirements or howthey pertain to the specific rental he/she is considering. Nor should he/she really care until they start locking tourists up.

Go ahead Paris, make my day. I am sure the food in French jails is better than what I am eating now.

Several of us have tried to consolidate factual information on the most popular travel forums.

This invariably veers off into claims that everything is fine in Paris - sometimes from people pushing their own properties or the agencies they use to promote them.

Or worse yet, the discussion becomes so toxic that the moderators or concerned individuals feel compelled to delete entire posts or the entire thread.

The best any of us can do is provide factual information as it comes available, in spite of the usual gang of non-believers and scofflaws.