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"Do people really think that work in 2020 is as difficult as it was in 1945?"
For certain jobs, perhaps the work is more difficult. . |
Originally Posted by kerouac
(Post 17034090)
The new system is supposed to lighten the work load for a transition as retirement age approaches. This has been discussed for years, but nobody has yet discovered the best way to do it. For one thing, older workers feel offended when it is implied that they can't do as much as they always have.
But one of the main problems is that the early retirement ages for certain professions due to "difficult" jobs were set back around 1945. Do people really think that work in 2020 is as difficult as it was in 1945? |
Interesting. I'm sure you have some examples.
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Frankly, I myself can only think of the performers of the Paris Opera ballet, who have special status (and retirement at age 42), but I have difficulty imagining that they are incapable of taking up other jobs in the cultural sector. Obviously, there is less prestige than being a ballet star, but the sporting stars of the world face the same problem, yet they don't have special retirement plans in any country of the world as far as I know. (Yes, quite a few of them earned a huge amount of money for a few years, but that it really a small minority of team members.)
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There are always jobs at an Amazon fulfillment center. Ballet training would come in handy in those jobs.
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Originally Posted by kerouac
(Post 17034183)
Interesting. I'm sure you have some examples.
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Originally Posted by kerouac
(Post 17034188)
but I have difficulty imagining that they are incapable of taking up other jobs in the cultural sector.
https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/3712196#consulter |
Originally Posted by Envierges
(Post 17034192)
There are always jobs at an Amazon fulfillment center. Ballet training would come in handy in those jobs.
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So we are concentrating on one relatively new profession that is not at all concerned by the strike? Yes, I saw the Ken Loach movie and I am aghast that the British find "zero-hour" contracts acceptable.
However, if we want to compare the working conditions of Amazon warehouse workers (5000 employees in France) with those of the mail order catalogues of the past, I think we will find much more sophisticated equipment for heavy lifting and moving things around, a considerable use of robotics, state-of-the-art delivery vehicles... Except for the speed demanded by the customers (us), the job is really much easier than in the past. Nevertheless, this profession is not at all protected in France since it is not considered to be one of the "tough" jobs that beneftis from protection and early retirement. Yes, it does have some night work that enters into consideration, but that is just a fraction. |
Originally Posted by kerouac
(Post 17034385)
So we are concentrating on one relatively new profession that is not at all concerned by the strike? Yes, I saw the Ken Loach movie and I am aghast that the British find "zero-hour" contracts acceptable.
However, if we want to compare the working conditions of Amazon warehouse workers (5000 employees in France) with those of the mail order catalogues of the past, I think we will find much more sophisticated equipment for heavy lifting and moving things around, a considerable use of robotics, state-of-the-art delivery vehicles... Except for the speed demanded by the customers (us), the job is really much easier than in the past. Nevertheless, this profession is not at all protected in France since it is not considered to be one of the "tough" jobs that beneftis from protection and early retirement. Yes, it does have some night work that enters into consideration, but that is just a fraction. |
And your point is?
I was the union representative in my company as well as being head of the social committee, the employee relations delegate and the safety and security delegate. I went to union meetings out in the suburbs once a month and wrote articles for the union newsletter. So what is my privilege other than being well informed? |
Originally Posted by starrs
(Post 17032187)
That is gorgeous, WT. I'd love info on that apartment!
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We've just returned from our family Christmas trip to Paris. The strike was more than just a nuisance, but fell well short of a disaster.
I had reserved an apartment in the town of Bagnolet, just outside the city limits (20th arrondissement) and on the border with the town of Les Lilas. The area is well served with transportation options, with 2 metro lines, 2 bus lines, and a tram (when all is working). However, during the transportation strike, there was only the tram (3b) and one bus (76). The tram connects with the number 1 metro, which was running almost normally, and the bus goes to Chatelet, within walking distance of most of what we wanted to see. I had an opportunity to cancel my reservation without penalty two weeks in advance. I considered doing it, because of the strike, but there were the vacations of four people in play. It was too expensive to get a centrally-located apartment for seven,and I hoped the strike would have been settled, or at least paused, by Christmas. Several people on this forum said it was almost certain. One person said no strike had ever continued over Christmas. (You can't say that any more, Kerouac.) We also discussed canceling the trip, but this would have been the third time we canceled a family Christmas trip to Paris. None of us wanted to do it. Anyway, it seemed we would have workable transportation options in Bagnolet. The RATP app was invaluable, and mostly accurate, for planning itineraries. For some reason, it always suggested taking the tram instead of the 76 bus. I learned about the bus by poking around on Google Maps. The advantage of the bus is that it was much less crowded than the tram, but it had to contend with heavy traffic at times. The tram/metro combination had no traffic, but it was so crowded that it was sometimes impossible to get on, and we had to wait for the next one. Both the tram and the metro suffered from impromptu protests. The tram was supposed to run its regular route until 8 PM, with 3 out of 4 trams running. But twice we got off the metro at Porte de Vincennes only to learn that the tram service was stopping its run, for the rest of the evening three stops earlier, leaving us with a two-kilometer walk to Porte de Bagnolet. My husband and I are old, but quite fit; one day we walked 12 km. But I felt very sorry for the elderly people who went out to do some shopping, on the assumption that the tram was running, and then found themselves stranded with heavy bags and no tram. There was also no bus from Porte de Vincennes to Porte de Bagnolet. There was a bus that went about half way, but for us it wasn't worth waiting for. We just walked. On the 28th, we took the tram/metro into the center, to visit the Musée d'Orsay. On the way back, there was an impromptu protest that closed the Tuilleries station of the line 1 metro. This is one of the two metros that are fully automated, so should have always been running. There were about six stations closed for this protest, which seems to me pure meanness. Again we walked to the next stop. When we got to Porte de Vincennes, there was some sort of kerfuffle going on in the tram. The driver refused to move unless everyone got off. Then three police officers arrived. They settled things and people began to board. The police officers got angry and began to shout and shove to get off. I was outside the tram, and had stepped aside, but I was wearing my bag cross shoulder, and one of the officers pushed it and dragged me back a few steps. My husband and I got on the tram, but in the scuffle, my grandaughter (age 14) started to cry. By the time my daughter realized she was just frightened, it was no longer possible for them to get on the tram, and it turned out that no more trams that evening were going to Porte de Vincennes. So my daughter and her family walked to Porte de Bagnolet. I love Paris when the normal routine is shuffled. I didn't need to walk from Chatelet to Porte de la Chapelle this afternoon since there were buses running, but I truly enjoy rediscovering the streets and trying new itineraries on foot. And I don't mind if all of the oldies stay cooped up in their tiny microcosms, because I am only 67 years old and still sufficiently spry to go anywhere. |
Don't you know that at age 67, I have nevetheless reached the age where I can be cranky and inappropriate whenever I feel like it? Show some respect!
I have mostly been using Vélib to get around the city and have a new appreciation of all of the work that was done this summer to double the number of bike lanes, in spite of all of the complaints. |
You might want to reserve your crankiness for real old age. If you're cranky at age 67, you may be misanthropic at 77 and insufferable by 87.
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Originally Posted by kerouac
(Post 17034401)
And your point is?
I was the union representative in my company as well as being head of the social committee, the employee relations delegate and the safety and security delegate. I went to union meetings out in the suburbs once a month and wrote articles for the union newsletter. So what is my privilege other than being well informed? |
At least I know what I am talking about.
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Originally Posted by bvlenci
(Post 17037688)
Both the tram and the metro suffered from impromptu protests. The tram was supposed to run its regular route until 8 PM, with 3 out of 4 trams running. But twice we got off the metro at Porte de Vincennes only to learn that the tram service was stopping its run, for the rest of the evening three stops earlier, leaving us with a two-kilometer walk to Porte de Bagnolet. My husband and I are old, but quite fit; one day we walked 12 km. But I felt very sorry for the elderly people who went out to do some shopping, on the assumption that the tram was running, and then found themselves stranded with heavy bags and no tram. There was also no bus from Porte de Vincennes to Porte de Bagnolet. There was a bus that went about half way, but for us it wasn't worth waiting for. We just walked. On the 28th, we took the tram/metro into the center, to visit the Musée d'Orsay. On the way back, there was an impromptu protest that closed the Tuilleries station of the line 1 metro. This is one of the two metros that are fully automated, so should have always been running. There were about six stations closed for this protest, which seems to me pure meanness. Again we walked to the next stop. When we got to Porte de Vincennes, there was some sort of kerfuffle going on in the tram. The driver refused to move unless everyone got off. Then three police officers arrived. They settled things and people began to board. The police officers got angry and began to shout and shove to get off. I was outside the tram, and had stepped aside, but I was wearing my bag cross shoulder, and one of the officers pushed it and dragged me back a few steps. My husband and I got on the tram, but in the scuffle, my grandaughter (age 14) started to cry. By the time my daughter realized she was just frightened, it was no longer possible for them to get on the tram, and it turned out that no more trams that evening were going to Porte de Vincennes. So my daughter and her family walked to Porte de Bagnolet. . I wondered how things went. It was a mess when I was there in April when the metro north of the Seine was shut down due to the yellow vest protests. Lots of walking. Happy I was close(r) in. I'm sorry for your granddaughter's experience.How did you like the apartment? |
Many visitors are simply not aware of their options. I just talked to a friend (former Parisian!) staying at Porte de Bagnolet and he did not know that the Tram 3b was running normally… or metro line 1, which were the transportation links that he needed. He spent more than an hour getting across Paris on the bus.
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Paris is burning! 🤣
Thin,aristocrat 🇧🇹 |
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