pconte

In the July 6 NYT, there's an article "Paris Aims to Curb Apartment Rentals to Tourists" claiming that: "Mayor Bertrand Delanoë, expressing concern about the lack of affordable housing in the city center, ordered an agency last year to warn property owners that renting out residential apartments for less than a year violates French law. Those who ignored the warning, he said, would be prosecuted."

In a rebuttal comment, Adrian Leeds of ParlerParisApartments.com said: "... a statement will be made by the city in September, which will quell the fears property owners and agents have about the future of their investments and their lives."

Anyone have any further info?

-- Paul

cw

This is an earlier thread on the subject: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...fm#dest-header

I haven't reread it, but, as I remember, it seems as though the laws were targeting individuals owners rather than agencies officially registered as companies.

We have rented twice from companies and not from agencies that represent individual owners. Not saying that is a bad thing though, from the renter's perspective, that is.

pconte

cw --

Thanks for the link. (I had searched for recent posts, but none came up.)

The earlier thread seemed to raise the issue, but reach no conclusion as to what's actually happening "on the ground."

My concern is that travellers (like us) with future rental agreements may find themselves out of luck if the property owner pulls the apartment out of rental.

As far as we knew, we were making a legal rental with a respected agent. We have cancellation (and more extensive trip) insurance, but it would still be a "bummer" if this were to happen.

Just wondering if there's any more recent news now that the NYT has covered the issue.

-- Paul

Doh

We rented an apt. and actually had one of the full-time residents of the building politely lecture us that the owners/rental agency were violating the law and that a lot of people in the building were unhappy with the short-term rental of an apartment.

That said, if I had a rental agreement for the future I wouldn't worry too much.

Sue_xx_yy

I too read the link to the other post (thanks cw) and the NYTimes article and I'm still puzzled.

Let's assume I buy an apartment in Paris (after winning the lottery, say...)in which I plan to stay oh, maybe three times a year, for a couple of weeks each time.

The rest of the time, when I'm not in residence, I can do one of two things: -- leave the property vacant (since I want to be able to stay there myself three times a year, I have no interest in offering a one year lease) or -- at least until recently - I rent it out short-term to tourists.

In neither case does the property go on the market to provide long-term housing for Parisians. How then does this law really help that objective? Or are vacation property owners just convenient scapegoats for the far larger problem that Paris is a very expensive city?

I do, on the other hand, understand the ire of city officials if I don't report apartment income to the relevant authorities for purpose of taxation. Again, though, the authorities would not receive additional tax if I was not permitted to rent out the property short-term at all, but simply left it vacant.

The claim (voiced on the other thread) that the authorities are concerned about laxer (is that a word) building standards for apartment accomodation versus hotel is rather puzzling, as well: the lives of long-term residents as presumably as valuable as tourists, so if the codes for apartments are considered lax, it is the codes which should be changed, not the nature of the tenants.

Bottom line: my sympathies to those who rent apartments if this really does restrict the number of properties available. But I'm still not sure of how any of the authorities' objectives will be filled if the law is enforced.

Alec

There are relatively few property investors in France that fit Sue_xx_yy's description - someone who owns a Paris apartment and intends to use it themselves. They bought their properties to generate rental income with no intention of staying there themselves - not easy if you own 100! It's those people whom the authorities are targeting, to release more private rental apartments for long-term lets to ease housing shortage. As short-term holiday rentals generate a lot more in rent than a long lease, there is a commercial reason for making properties available to tourists. And being a year-round destination, with good marketing and efficient agents, you can just sit back and watch the money roll in.

Ackislander

I lived in a condo building in Boston for ten years in which some owners were operating illegal apartments and/or B&B's.

No matter what city law said, the condo docs prohibited them.
We had a three month minimum rental, and a $300 fee to the association for each rental. Short-term rentals can be a major pain to owners and management.

One day, the Board cracked down, and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Some situations, like Craigslist rentals in New York City are a major scandal, so it will be interesting to see how Paris handles this.

zeppole

If I am reading these articles correctly, there is a legal way to own an apartment in Paris and rent it to transient visitors, but you then have to pay taxes on it as a "commercial site," and insure the property to certain standards. It appears that this kind of legal designation is very difficult to obtain from Parisian authorities, even if you are willing to pay the taxes and the insurance. Reading the articles make me think that many of the most commonly talked about Paris apartments on Fodor's are not legal rentals.

Tourists renting an apartment in advance of their next Paris visit should ask the legal status of the apartment before putting down large deposits. The renter should be able to show you documents, I gather from reading the articles, that prove their are legally entitled to rent the property commercially to short-term users. Otherwise, it would seem, you run the risk of finding out at any moment that your contract to rent the apartment won't be upheld unless the owner is willing to risk prosecution to have you in there.

zeppole

PS: I read Adrian Leeds' response and she seems to be saying, amidst all the bluster, that the law won't be enforced, not that the majority of apartments represented by rental agencies are legal.

I would be reluctant to put down a large deposit on a rental without some clarification of the situation, which seems to think will be coming in September.