Paris dillema
 

We have booked a trip to Paris for 12/27 - 1/5. Now with the new strain we are seriously thinking of canceling but really hate to do it. Is it as dire as it looks?

I sure wouldn't go - rules can change at any moment. I'd cancel and plan a trip maybe in late Spring. (I was in the UK a couple of weeks ago -- had a great trip, but everything changed a 2 or 3 days after I returned and if my trip was tomorrow -- I'd have to cancel)

nah, i wouldn't go

If you can cancel, I would.

This is very much a personal choice, so I will only add my recent experience. We are just back from two months in Paris...we had three shots before going, two and a booster...we had a passe sanitaire after arrival and our time there was just great. The French were most careful about checking for the pass for entry to all cafes, bistros, museums, etc. so we felt relatively safe when going inside. People seemed very careful but they filled every chair, every seat.......most wore masks......hard to think what was going on with the pandemic in many cases...the French were able to enjoy their days regardless. The mood seemed cautious but we saw no panic......again, your decision if you are comfortable, but, we had a great time and would do it again tomorrow if we could..

If you have your triple vaccinations, there should not be a problem.

Not exactly. The protection from significant Omicron is only 75% with three Pfizer shots, and presumably also with Moderna. The latest calculations rate Omicron as transmissible as measles, which requires 30 foot (19 meter) distancing rather than the present 6 foot idea. The proportion of patients admitted to hospital that are vaccinated or previously recovered is increasing, although it seems that the duration of hospitalization is shorter.

So pandemic precautions, testing requirements, and travel restrictions will remain at best annoying and potentially disrupting as conditions and rules change unpredictably. The "Paris Dilemma" will follow any US traveler for the unforeseeable future.

I cancelled my trip to Paris for early Jan. I need to get back home for work. I want as close to a "normal" experience as possible when I return. I don't want to be sick away from home. I am triple vaxxed. There were too many "ifs" for my comfort level.

A thread I just read said that because transmission is so easy with Omicron that the doctor writing it said he would not sit inside a restaurant for the next month. Go somewhere warm instead and sit outside and enjoy till this variant passes or warm weather returns.

For me, if you have to ask the question, you already have the answer for you.

Personally, I’d probably cancel. But good friends of ours just returned after spending 10 days in Paris and had an absolutely wonderful time. They attended a PSG soccer match, did a day trip to Reims and the champagne area and also took the TGV to Marseille for an overnight trip.

Our friends had their passe sanitaire, which they said was checked everywhere, people wore masks and they felt much safer than they did in south Florida!

Very much like traviata’s experience…à vous de décider…

I would not go personally and we were in France both in June and late September. I was boosted in September before our last trip. Risk of transmission is high as winter time in Europe is mostly an indoor experience. Especially risky if you are over 60 or have health issues. May also not want to have to quarantine if you test positive before your trip home.

One reason that I feel safer than most is that I had AstraZeneca + Moderna + Pfizer as my vaccinations.

Jean was right but I was hoping beyond hope that fellow travelers could change my mind. We did cancel and are planning to rebook the trip for April.

Our biggest concern was government restrictions changing. This is the 3rd European vacation we have canceled in the last 1.5 years. The latest was to Netherlands who imposed quarantine 2 days before our flight(then reversed it 2 weeks later). We went to the US southwest instead and were faced with canceled events, attractions, restaurant restrictions, etc.

Covid be damned! But thanks to you all and best wishes for a happy and healthy 2022 filled with wonderful travel experiences.

The situation a month or two ago isn't really the same as now or the new upcoming weeks given how fast Omicron spreads and how it is growing. Netherlands just locked down for example, so if someone had a great time on a trip 6 weeks ago, wouldn't matter.

With over 89% of the French population fully vaccinated and with everyone wearing masks, you are probably a lot safer from Covid in France than almost anywhere in the US. The expectation is that sometime around the first of the year, only the fully vaccinated will be allowed in cafés, restaurants, museums, and other locations where people gather.

I am concerned about traveling to the US.

Take care with these numbers as not all children are included in these numbers. From sortiraparis.com the figures are more like
This Tuesday 21 December 2021(consolidated data), 52,604,103 people have beengiven the first dose of the vaccine in France, namely 78.40% of the population. 51,522,919 people have been given the second dose of vaccine, namely 76.80% of the population.

The best source is https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets...la-covid-19-1/

And the numbers are less reassuring when breakthrough cases among the fully vaccinated are increasing. It's not likely you'd be hospitalized if you got Covid while in France, but you might have trouble getting back to the U.S.

My family has had 5 breakthrough cases in fully-vaccinated adults. The most recent was this week.

As for me, I would be concerned about traveling anywhere right now.

There are breakthrough omicron cases among fully vaccinated . . . everywhere. That doesn't concern me so much because almost all the data so far indicates the vast majority of cases are mild to very mild. Many catch and recover from the new strain w/o even knowing they have it unless they are tested. BUT it is still covid and one would test positive which would screw up the entire trip.

My son lives in NYC, and he is fully vaccinated. He received his booster on Monday 13th of December, and on the Thursday he caught Covid - the Omicron strain.
He has been sick - mild flu syptoms and it is passing.. However, his vaccination status meant nothing to Omicron.

Omicron is spreading throughout Europe, and there are a few countries in lockdown. I am not sure why people would want to travel so far, and risk catching it. I would be worried about getting home.

Of course the over 89% of the French population which are fully vaccinated does not include under 12. Children under 12 are not eligible for vaccination. It is pointless to include those not eligible as part of the fully vaccinated percentage.

The point is that the French population has a far higher vaccination rate than does the US population.

"The point is that the French population has a far higher vaccination rate than does the US population."

Which has nothing to do with anything really. Omicrom apparently doesn't respect vaccination status, and France is experiencing a surge in cases just like everywhere else.

Vaccination provides no protection from Omicrom? The unvaccinated are the cause of the case surge in France and the unvaccinated represent 95% of the current deaths according to Jean Castex, the Premier minister, in a recent speech.

The idea that vaccination rates mean nothing is absolute nonsense.

it's changing fast in France, with Omicron only hitting the numbers now, they are mainly still on Delta

"The idea that vaccination rates mean nothing is absolute nonsense."

I didn't say that. I meant 1) Vax rate has little to do with the topic at hand, and 2) stats/vax rates have nothing to do with any individual's experience. Every single person one comes in contact with could be vaccinated/boosted and s/he could still come down with omicron (or delta or any other variant). There are break through cases.

Let's quit derailing every single covid-travel thread with 'my country is better than your country' arguments. With rules changing by the day, traveling right now is full of uncertainties no matter where one is talking about.

Are you going just for a vacation or are you going to Paris for something special or it is your first trip? Can you go somewhere else?

I had a somewhat similar situation in early November. I had a couple of trips planned out. November in northern Italy (2nd attempt), then Croatia, and April (2022) in Paris. I was unable to meet Italy's requirement for entry, so changed my Nov trip from Italy to Croatia as they made entry easy. Crostia ooked and ready to go when airline changed my flight and CDC raised Croatia level to 4. Cancelled Croatia and moved Paris to November. I already had all trips planned out so easy to switch to Paris.

Dilemma: my already booked Croatia was level 4 but as not as popular a tourist attraction as Paris, not as many people and no time sensitive ticket entry and a lot of strolling, or should I still go or go to Paris, CDC level 3 but probably the #1 destination city in the world, timed entry for almost everywhere I wanted to go with crowds. Made the choice to go to Paris. Got the booster the day I flew out but even in small unknown museums, crowds. EVERYONE wore masks and pass sanitaire first thing that was checked.

Hindsight: for first major trip of the pandemic, should have gone to Croatia, as probably no crowds, no timed tickets, lots of strolling. First eight days of my trip were school holidays so lots of kids and families in museums, tours in Paris and you will run into the same groups over Christmas.

No easy answer.

It's not just the unvaccinated who are causing the case surge. Some number of people who are fully vaccinated are getting re-infected via Omicron. And the majority of Omicron cases (esp. in the vaccinated) present no significant symptoms that prompt testing (not to mention those who don't care enough to be tested), so it's not clear just how many people are out there shedding the virus, spreading Covid. So, at least during the Omicron phase, vaccination rates have little meaning except when looking at hospitalization and death numbers. The unvaccinated represent the greatest number of hospitalizations and deaths, but it's entirely possible some caught Covid from a fully-vaccinated, asymptomatic person.

Hospitalizations and deaths are basically all that matters, and that has everything to do with vaccination.

It baffles me why anyone wants to travel overseas during a pandemic.

Speaking for myself - here is what our thoughts were. We are from the USA.

In July 1019 after returning from a month in France, my 99 year old FIL had 2 strokes. My wife is his only relative. He was a mess. We immediately cancelled our Aug/Sept 2019 month-long trip to Alsace/Burgundy & rescheduled it for 2020.

Covid hit in March 2020

In early 2020, we cancelled plans for a May trip to Scotland because of Covid. We rescheduled Scotland for 2021. In July 2020 we cancelled plans for Alsace/Burgundy & rescheduled for 2021. Thinking Covid would be over by Dec 2020, we reserved an apt in Pars for 2 weeks in Dec 2020. In Nov 2020 we cancelled Paris & rescheduled for Dec 2021. In very early 2021 we were vaccinated - and hopeful . UK was "behind" the US & they were imposing restrictions on travel. In early 2021 we cancelled Scotland again & rescheduled for 2022. In July 2021, we cancelled Alsace/Burgundy & rescheduled for 2022.

Thinking Covid would be a little easier to work around, and there were manageable restrictions in France - we did not cancel Paris. We received our Passe Sanitaire. We arrived in Paris with no problems - but 2 days later, France required a negative Covid test to enter France. This impacted our friends who were joining us in Paris. About half way through our trip, the US required a negative Covid test to be performed 1 day before departure from France. More & more & more restriction.. I was a nervous wreck while in Paris - wondering if we would be stuck in France in the winter. Our friends planned to travel to Amsterdam from Paris. But they cancelled & went to Strasbourg instead. Germany & the UK tightened restrictions. We were happy when we got on the place & returned home safely (last week). With hindsight - I would not have traveled to Paris. My wife has no regrets, however.

Stu Dudley

Millie, I totally agree with you. It is frustrating to see how continued travel has contributed to the pandemic. One person traveling can unknowingly infect so many.

Stu, Thank you for posting your experience.

I would love to take a trip or a cruise or even a weekend, just anywhere, but (especially with a chronic illness) even with vaccination and boosters, it does not feel safe.

US CDC adds France to ‘very high’ Covid-19 risk list, urges against travel

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20211207-us-cdc-adds-france-to-very-high-covid-19-risk-list-urges-against-travel

Did you notice that the article was from a few weeks ago already?

No but I thought maybe Sarastro needed a heads up.

We're moving into a soft lockdown =
Omicron Is Pushing America Into Soft Lockdown
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...own/ar-AAS9zNl


Everyone makes the decision that works for them. I didn't want to be sick away from home nor not be able to fly home due to a quarantine. I noticed a refund of my Van Gogh museum ticket for Christmas Day. They closed due to the virus.

Post #14. The OP has already cancelled/rescheduled.