Paris apt rental wants $ no contract??
 

The cynic inside me is advising caution, the optimist saying go ahead, do it, it will be fine -- I'd love some Fodorite input!

I found an apartment to rent in Paris and the owner appears to be very nice, judging from emails, and her patient answers to myriad questions:) I couldn't find any reviews (looked slowtravel, tripadvisor, of course Fodor), so I asked if she had some, and she sent along 3 or 4 which looked very legitimate (ie, not all 5/5 with no comments.

Here's the thing (actually 2) -- She'd like a deposit (no prob) of about 130E (reasonable) put into her paypal account. Well, to do so I have to create an account myself (don't want to (long story, v bitter paypal experience) It will go to her account, which a yahoo account. This seemed a little strange to me, because I rented an apt in Florence too, and they also use Paypal but I was able to just click the link on their website and pay be credit card just like it was any other purchase, so I wonder whether this account is legitimate or not.

The other thing is that she doesn't have a rental agreement or anything (which I thought was French law) When I asked, she said she could give me a receipt and that she does not do rental agreements because her lets are so short-term. Now, there's a definite upside to this informal approach, which is that she doesn't charge the ridiculous 300-500E upfront "security deposit" that most places do, which at the end of my trip is a very big plus.

Any thoughts?

If there's no contract what recourse do you have if it's a scam - or if there is some other sort of problem?

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Where did you find the listing? Perhaps she could put you in touch with someone who has stayed there before.

I would hesitate to rent a place that had no reviews or no reviews of the owner/agency. You might try googling her name or the apartment's name to see if anything shows up.

I found it on holidaylettings.co.uk , which she indicated doesn't have the facility for users to publish their ratings (true, I checked it out). She therefore directed me to homelidays because she also posts her property there. That's where I read the 4 reviews - reviewed 3 times in 2010 and once in 2008. I did try googling her name but nothing came up.

I think there are plenty of other options than to do something like that. I have a Paypal merchant account, which anyone can get and yes it is very simple to either add a button to a webpage or email a "Pay Now" to the buyer.

How many people are in your group? If only 2 or 3, then I got my kids a great deal in the 2nd through Blue Marble travel. I'll try to find the website and post it, but you should be able to find it fairly easily. I think they stayed in the Citron, but I believe the company has 3 apartments in the same building. If I remember correctly, the price was only about $600 USD for the week, in February though.

dave

Here is the website for Blue Marble. You'll find their apartments at the bottom.

http://www.bluemarble.org/index.html

dave

Oh, and to correct something I wrote, that was $500 for 10 days not a week. However, at peak season the price looks to be about $700/wk.

dave (again)

"If there's no contract what recourse do you have if it's a scam - or if there is some other sort of problem?

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole."

Sometimes someone sums up a situation so well all you can do is copy/paste!

She may be nice in her emails. I think scam artist are always nice. I'd keep looking.

Given the thousands of Paris apartments that do not come with those particular oddities and potential drawbacks, it seems obvious to pass on it.

Yeah, you are all probably right. sigh...it was such a great apartment. Hearing how easy it is to create a merchant account on paypal was very, very helpful in determining whether she is legit. At the very least, that tells me that she isn't motivated to use normal business practices. I actually have 2 or 3 other apartments in the running -- maybe I'll post them on another thread and get some feedback again.

And post this apartment--you never know, someone here may have stayed there. Not everyone writes a trip report.

When my little 'red flag' goes up I'm usually sorry when I don't listen to it.

As to the Paypal thing, you never have to create an account to purchase something, if the seller is legit. You can use a credit card directly to PP and the seller never gets access to your info. Anything else is very suspect.

dave

This is true about Paypal BUT it's something that I didn't know for several years, and so I wouldn't say that this person is dishonest just because of that. I had always asked people to pay directly through a Paypal account, and eventually discovered that this wasn't necessary. Paypal isn't used by that many people in France and it may not be as familiar to this person. You can ask that she send you a request for payment/invoice, which will not require you having a Paypal account. You can even tell her that another property manager says that this is possible in France.

I suspect that what you are dealing with is someone who is not very professional, and that's what would bother me. As a property manager myself, I know all kinds of people who would never have any idea how to draw up a contract, and many of them don't have a very good idea of customer relations - for instance they buy cheap furnishings because they're 'only for the renters.' This is something you have to resolve yourself, but don't be too quick to think that it is a scam. There are a lot more unprofessional people than scammers in this business.

I wouldn't ever rent from anyone without a contract, but I wouldn't even find apartments that way from private owners.

She just sounds like someone renting apartments casually and doesn't care that much about busness practices, I'm sure there are many other people out there like that, particularly if they only hve one apt or something.

I believe those websites you are using are just websites where anyone can post a listing, they are just the online equivalent of the want ads, so if you use those, I think that's what you can expect. In reality, even if you have a contract with some small owner with a fee apartments, I don't see that this is going to be much help if you have problems, if you are a foreigner. Do you seriously think you would get embroiled in legal issues and court cases for a holiday rental if you live abroad? And I was interested in a an apt from a well-known agency that people talke about on Fodors (vacationinparis.com in NJ, USA) and they refused to give me a contract when I asked for one, said they just did things more casually. I believe from reading current postings that they now use contracts, not sure, but I was appalled that some business like that wouldn't have a standard contract, and they were a US firm so I could have sued them or something I suppose. IN any case, no, of course I didn't rent from them but they were a business.

You are just dealing with someone renting casually, that's what you get when you use those kind of resources a lot of the time. I wouldn't put any stock in reviews published on those sources, anyway, the owner decided whether to allow them.

296v - I rented twice through homelidays - budget studios in Paris - and both times got a contract...
I would be a bit nervous without one...
With one of them I used Paypal - not sure what you meant about paying with a credit card - isn't that how Paypal works?

thanks to everyone for continuing the discussion - appreciate your time!

Carlux, about paypal not being too prevalent in France, I think she is actually English, judging by her last name (although it could be a married surname too), so I wonder what the paypal situation is there. If she doesn't live in Paris, and just has the one apartment, that could be an explanation too. At this point, frankly, I've decided to let it go as it's becoming way more trouble than it's worth.

Christina, I didn't know that those 2 sites I'm using are like classifieds. I've also tried agencies but been given the ol' bait-and-switch and/or 100E + 18% of total rent for a supposed "agency fee" (and I'm only staying 6 nights). When I inquiried what the fee gives me, they said keys and orientation to the apartment (as if I need to be oriented to 200 sq m LOL) I've had good success in the past with vrbo, which I suppose is also a classified, but as I say I've had good experiences.

Mara, where did you stay? To clarify what I mean by paypal, I mean that I had to create an account in order to pay the deposit. Whereas in Florence, I just clicked on the "pay now" tab on their website and it was done, just as if I bought anything on the internet.

The search continues ... here is my new shortlist. Has anyone stayed at any of these places?
5th, near Jardin des Plantes, metro Place Monge, 420E/6N
http://www.homelidays.co.uk/paris-05...-359938en1.htm

5th, south of the previous rental
http://www.vacationinparis.com/apts/id_112.htm USD125/night

5th, more central location than the 2 above (close to Pantheon), but not as nice IMO
http://www.vacationinparis.com/apts/id_186.htm USD125/night

6th, great location, apartment seems dark; hasn’t been renovated (acc to description)
550E/6N http://www.vrbo.com/216442

4th, great apartment; least favorite location (a little far to be on-foot; have read redlight district is 1 or 2 blocks to the east on same street)
http://www.homelidays.co.uk/paris-02...-191144en1.htm

Forgot cost re: last apartment -- 500E/6N

296, this is a very simple situation. Straight-Eddie-Murphy-haunted-house logic -- get out. Do not deal with this person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96s1M8IyrUQ (Warning, bad language).

And if this woman is English, that's even worse because she grew up in a culture that created the architecture of contract law throughout the world.