Paris Air Conditioning in July

Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 07:56 AM
  #81  
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Huh? Speaking of rude, Norween. . .
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 08:05 AM
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How am i rude ?
I just mention that in this forum europeans have been qualified : stupid, ignorant, unable to undertand anything, the medical staff uncompetent, and generally people having no notion about hygien...
who is rude ?
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Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 08:11 AM
  #83  
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First of all, you are guilty of turning a phrase like "a number of. . ." into "everybody".

I apologize if my mentioning that I ran into quite a few people in France who obviously do not bathe or use deodorant was somehow interpreted as "the French are dirty and smelly." That was certainly not MY interpretation -- and is certainly not true of the VAST MAJORITY of the French I came into contact with.
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 08:16 AM
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"Increased use of A/C is not so much a cause of global warming as a consequence of it. When it's hot, you must refrigerate."

I don't know, the more it warms, the more people use A/C, which requires burning more fossil fuels (although Europe does use a lot of nuclear, there was some controversy in the UK because earlier this month, some commission recommended building new plants to replace older nuclear plants, not even adding new ones).

A/C definitely strains the power generation infrastructure out here. So you figure when demand spikes that much to threaten outages (rolling brown or blackouts), we're talking about a substantial increase in fuel burned.

So you take a city like Paris which doesn't have that much A/C and if it becomes more ubiquitous there, then they will be burning more fuel.

Will it just be incremental or are you talking about a big increase in power generation, and hence consumption of coal or natural gas?
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Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 11:07 AM
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There isn't any alternative to air conditioning, whether it uses energy or not. When the climate is hot, you must refrigerate. So arguing about the energy it uses is pointless. I find it odd that people fret over the energy requirements of refrigeration, but they don't seem to care about the energy spent on heating. Heating to them is "necessary," and A/C is a "luxury."

Future generations will see things the other way around, though.

French people worry a lot about appearance, and very little about smell. A few of them think that a litre of perfume poured onto their persons in the morning can replace washing with soap and water. Apparently the resulting stench is well accepted even by people who practice better hygiene, because nobody ever seems to say anything. And these also seem to be the people who dress to the nines in six layers of clothing when it's 110 F in the Métro.

I've encountered some examples so spectacular that it's possible to know where they have been even half an hour after they've left.

Fortunately, as I've said, younger generations of French people bathe much more regularly, although not necessarily daily. One still sees dirty hair and dirt under the fingernails sometimes, though. And about half of French men don't wash their hands after using the toilet, which is worrisome when you consider how often French people insist on shaking hands.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 12:24 PM
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So now you are taking it to a French bashing level. That pretty much invalidates anything you have to say. I thought we were having an interesting conversation but it is now obvious that you simply want to denigrate a culture.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 02:18 PM
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Quote " clown AnthonyGA "

"There isn't any alternative to air conditioning, whether it uses energy or not. When the climate is hot, you must refrigerate. So arguing about the energy it uses is pointless. I find it odd that people fret over the energy requirements of refrigeration, but they don't seem to care about the energy spent on heating. Heating to them is "necessary," and A/C is a "luxury." "

This is all rubbish.

I've spent time in Alice Springs and Death Valley. The worst thing is humidity, not temperature. We had 105F today, but only 30% humidity. Rather warm, but bearable. Non AC inside temperature was 76F.

To learn how to keep cool without destroying the planet, visit an old building. And, if you are one of the the 4% of the population who contributes 30+% of pollutants (i.e. from US) visit one of the old missions in California, Arizona or New Mexico : pleasantly cool without AC.

Peter

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Old Jul 24th, 2006, 06:43 AM
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I'm not bashing the French; I'm just stating facts. Some facts about the French are not glowingly positive; that's not my fault.

Old buildings get just as hot as new buildings. Right now Notre-Dame is sweltering in the perpetual heat wave that is afflicting Paris this summer, and it's 1000 years old.

Both heat and humidity are deadly, and all the more so when they occur together. Most people underestimate the dangers of hot weather, especially if they haven't lived in it for long periods. Right now there are people dying in Europe and the United States because they refuse to believe that heat is dangerous.
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Old Jul 24th, 2006, 06:49 AM
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Perhaps we can start a comparison of how much pollution each country contributes...

aren't those figures out there somewhere, MPPRH???? since you seem to have an excellent handle on this...
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Old Jul 24th, 2006, 09:17 AM
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Links to background reading :

http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_libra.../cli5_2005.pdf

http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_libra.../cli3_2005.pdf

http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_libra...li_cou_840.pdf

http://earthtrends.wri.org/maps_spat...ct=184&theme=3


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution

Peter

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Old Jul 24th, 2006, 05:58 PM
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State of CA has a Stage 2 power alert as hot weather is making power demand spike. That's those air conditioners for you.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as installing more AC in a city experiencing warmer temperatures than it used to.

You need to upgrade your power infrastructure, find ways to acquire more fuel, etc.
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 05:29 AM
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If your power structure can cope with cold winters, it can generally cope with hot summers.
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 10:02 AM
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Oil is used for heating, not electricity, big difference!
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 01:08 PM
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Yes, oil is often used to generate electricity, it is much cleaner than coal.

I always heard European electrical production is much lower in the summer than winter, the opposite from the US. So yes, there is enough electricity available not counting for down time for maintenance.

Wow, lots of really strange opinions in this thread!

Yes, lots of US buildings are overly air conditioned. My observation has been that a busy employee such as a waitress who is in and out of a hot kitchen, gets hot and takes it upon herself to lower the thermostat. It seems to happen in my office, the warmest individual in summer controls the thermostat while the coldest person in winter monkeys with it. Unless the Boss throws a tantrum, the inmates control the temperature or at least fight over it.
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 04:46 PM
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Peter, thanks for the links.
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 07:06 PM
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AnthonyGA, you make some interesting points in a colorful sort of way, and you obviously know far more about AC than I do.

The reason I don't think AC is necessary to life is that I grew up without it in muggy SE Missouri and live to tell the tale. Every summer it got past 100F at least a day or two. You may argue that I was a hardy young squirt, but my great aunt made it past 102 without it, and walked downtown every weekday well into her 90's.

Also, mankind managed to stumble along without it for quite a few years, where heating has been around quite a bit longer.

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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 08:06 PM
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Hi, We are going to Paris in late August==any thoughts on how important A/Cwould be then?
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 09:07 PM
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Very. August can still be very hot--remember the hideous heat wave of 2003.
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Old Jul 26th, 2006, 10:51 AM
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AnthonyGA...your comments regarding the French are absolute generalizations, and put you in the class of posters that continue the bashing, which last time I looked is deemed inappropriate for this forum.

Apologize to the forum for your gross generalizations. In lieu of this, I will request that the moderators take action against your tirades re: the French.

Posters such as yourself make it their business to infiltrate most Euro or French sites. And why not? America's media and politicians have continued to castigate the French as a country for quite a while, all the time ignoring the fact that 35 million Americans of french heritage are being insulted.

Ah, isn't it nice that we in America bang our chests and say that everyone is welcome in a non discriminatory way...and take no action against "certain" people for continually castigating "certain" countries.

And with France... a country that liberated us initially from our oppressor, Great Britain... sold us one third of the country... provided ten sailors for every American soldier at Yorktown... and was the petri dish for Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison. They had to be begged to return to America for years...especially Jefferson. Hmmmm....I wonder why so many cities have french names? could it be that french explorers and surveyors were here in the 1600's?
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Old Jul 26th, 2006, 01:06 PM
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orval,
In that case they'd have to censor any stereotypes of U.S. citizens as fat, loud, poorly-dressed AC addicts.

I find stereotypes interesting, even of groups I belong to, and think that a proud and great nation like France can probably handle what AnthonyGA wrote.
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