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Pamplona - the Revenge of the Bulls - 1st Fatality since 1995

Pamplona - the Revenge of the Bulls - 1st Fatality since 1995

Jul 11th, 2009, 05:11 AM
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Yes, we offer the culture, cuisine and beauty of the region, and have been doing so for a number of years. The encierro and bullfighting, the Festival of the Bull, are a vital part of a long tradition in Navarra and the Basque Country, dating back hundreds of years. It is also part of the tradition in other parts of Spain, France and Portugal.

We do not encourage running, but do encourage becoming part of the fiesta, which is much more than the encierro. And yes, the bulls are killed at the end of the day, with few exceptions.
Robert2533 is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 07:14 AM
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People don't necessarily need to read Hemingway:
In my current edition of Fodor's Spain, to "witness a bullfight in the historic bullrings of Seville or Ronda" is one of the Top 7 "reasons to go" to Andalucia.
You will find similar references for Pamplona.
While no one can deny that, like it or hate it, the corrida is one item that a serious travel guide on Spain cannot omit, I wonder if it is necessary to declare it as a "must see".
To channel your anger into some productive ways, why don't you protest with the publishers of travel guides who praise bullfights?

P.S. If you think that bullfighting is the most disgusting Europe has to offer, you probably don't know much of it.
If the bulls weren't killed after the run, I wouldn't know what to say against the run itself. We drive cattle up and down the Alps twice year - it just takes a *bit* longer.
Cowboy1968 is online now  
Jul 11th, 2009, 07:24 AM
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These people are crazy..The bulls must be terrified seeing all these ordes of screaming and yelling people chase them..

It is a pity that the tourist died, but he took his chances and knew the danger involved.

I feel sorry for the bulls..Take a look at this video..See if a civilized country needs such a babarians custom..

kismetchimera is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 07:26 AM
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kismetchimera is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 08:45 AM
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I never figured out how being part of torturing and killing animals makes one brave or macho. I think it is the other way around. I would not even want to know a person who participated in such cruelty on animals, no matter which country they are from.
SeaUrchin is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 10:09 AM
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There was a long discussion on this topic in the lounge a few months past.

This is one of the many discussions where there is no middle ground. Those that oppose bullfighting and the encierro use emotional words such a barbaric, brutal, and repluisve. They speak from a higher moral authority than those who like bullfighting.

Those who advocate bullighting see it as a cultural, historical, amd majestic dance of death that dates back a 1,000 years to Crete and is part of the Spanish soul.

The interest in bullfighting was waning in Spain until the cultural hegemony of he EU reared its head. The Spanish did not want lose part of their identity simply because of other member nations did not like their cultural heritage.

Now there are mixed interests. It was never as popular in Catalunya as it was in the other regions. This was a manifestation of their separatist leanings. Zapatero did not want bullfighting shown on the national TV station. (For those who live in Spain has it returned to TV?)

My guess is the greater the opposition to bullfighting, the more there will those who will want to tenciously hang onto the tradiiton.

I have never beem in Pamplona for San Fermin. The idea of spending quality time with thousands of drunks has just bever appealed to me. And the humnans who run with the bulls are only a rolled up newspaper for protection.

Some beleive the origin of the encierro started as an event where only the butchers of the town were allowed to run. Now if we can just get an event like this for veggie people.
Aduchamp1 is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 01:43 PM
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No, there´s no bullfighting on TV in Spain.

During the run bulls are not tortured and don´t suffer. Bullfighting is another thing. I am not very fond of it and find it kind of cruel, but I have to admit that it will be hard to eliminate from Spanish, Colombian, Mexican, Peruvian,.....,way of life. The more people oppose to it, more radical its supporters become. In any case, there´s a majority of the population that oppose to it, but in a very passive way.
mikelg is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 02:45 PM
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I have seen bullfighting on TV during the Fallas festivals, I am almost certain, on a local channel.
lincasanova is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 03:16 PM
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Do you means the Moors soul..I have found this interesting article about it..

kismetchimera is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 03:39 PM
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"During the run bulls are not tortured and don´t suffer"
not from what I see.
ribeirasacra is offline  
Jul 11th, 2009, 04:55 PM
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mikelg wrote: "During the run bulls are not tortured and don´t suffer."

That's like saying that the ride on the tumbril to the guillotine was a pleasant jaunt through the city of Paris.
Padraig is offline  
Jul 12th, 2009, 12:44 AM
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Wait a second...those three links don´t show any torture to any animal...and what they say about the running of the bulls is just NOT true, it´s a lot of nonsense.

Bullfighting may be criticized for its cruelty, but not the running of the bulls, at least using the same arguments.
mikelg is offline  
Jul 12th, 2009, 01:12 AM
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One valid argument the critics have is that the cobblestone "race course" can be slippery and the bulls can break their legs when falling.

But if you think that you can hurt a cow by pulling the tail or with a rolled up newspaper, or that you can scare a cow when you scream at them, then you probably never got closer to cattle than at McDonalds.
Cowboy1968 is online now  
Jul 12th, 2009, 01:50 AM
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I am no advocate for bullfighting or bull running.
BTW, I also deplore the gloating element in this thread.
There is nothing good about somebody, however misguided suffering a violent death.

That said, the only person who would be entitled to take the high moral ground would be a vegetarian.
See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3389630.ece
Josser is offline  
Jul 12th, 2009, 02:38 AM
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>Robert2533:It's amazing how many highly opinionated, but truly ignorant people frequent this forum, having no idea what the event is all about and of course have never been to the fiesta<

I agree 100% with you Robert. Good grief, we have only in the last few weeks had similar lectures from Palenque in another thread we contributed to, about his perceptions of bullfighting.

StCirq's response to him was a masterpiece and he scuttled off. Folks, go find.

joe4212 is offline  
Jul 12th, 2009, 03:36 AM
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For those interested, Pamplona's cobblestoned streets all but disappeared a few years ago. The only remaining section in the old city can be found on Santo Domingo, the first part of the encierro. The rest of the route is paved with flat stone pavers, as is the Plaza del Castillo.

The streets are wet because they are hosed down and cleaned each morning before the encierro to help make the run safer should anyone fall, which is eneviable when there are so many people, most of which get in the way of the actual runners.

The city has also added an anti-slip surfacing at the corner of Mercaderies and Estafeta to keep the bulls from slipping on the turn, "La Curva", which used to be called "hamburger corner" by the American news media, who are about as iqnorant as they come when it comes to the encierro. Very few animals have slipped on the corner the last couple of years, making the encierro faster, keeping the bulls closer together, but bulls can be unpredictable, as what happened on Friday and this morning when a Muria bull did slip on the turn, got separated from the heard and prceeded to rase havic along the route. It was a very dangerous morning for everyone.

The encierro has always been very dangerous, even for the most experienced runner, who by the way, do not drink before running the encierro. To them this is serious business, but the crowds have grown too large the last several years and far too many inexperienced fools who travel to Pamplona to run with the bulls stay up all night drinking and have no idea what’s going on. Maybe the last couple of encierros will help them realize that these are not simple farm animals. Fighting bulls do one thing, they kill. It is their nature.
Robert2533 is offline  
Jul 12th, 2009, 03:44 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up.. the issue about street surface, I mean.
Cowboy1968 is online now  
Jul 13th, 2009, 06:04 AM
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It's amazing how many highly opinionated, but truly ignorant people frequent this forum, having no idea what the event is all about and of course have never been to the fiesta.>

fiesta is fine - causing bulls to run crazily thru narrow streets filled with folks taunting them is animal abuse - you know they swat the bulls on their rears i believe to get them started in a frenzied state - and some kind of firecrackers too?

Yeh you can separate the festival from the bull running and bullfights, and should IMO
Palenque is offline  
Jul 13th, 2009, 07:57 AM
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It's interesting, and amazing, that those who have no idea of what they are talking about (ignorant of the facts) continue to pass on misinformation about the encierro.
Robert2533 is offline  

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