From the Oxford dictionary.
thrifty (thrifty)
1 using money and other resources carefully and not wastefully:
eg "he had been brought up to be thrifty and careful"
2 chiefly archaic or dialect (of livestock or plants) strong and healthy
archaic prosperous

frugal (fru¦gal)
sparing or economical as regards money or food:
eg "I'm a bit too frugal to splash out on designer clothes"
simple and plain and costing little:
eg "a frugal meal"

Thrifty is from Old English and Frugal from Latin and are often used synonymously.

The key difference as I see it, is in "carefully and not wastefully" versus "sparing". Sparing to me indicates limited or very little spending in all cases, whereas, carefully and not wastefully indicates choice in how the money is spent, ie not wastefully.

Frugal has tended to take on a more negative connotation of penny pinching and Scrooge like. Spending as little as possible.

Thrifty tends to have a more positive connotation of economimical and wise. Even though this is not directly reflected in the defintions.

So the OP is being thrifty by not wasting their money on railway food when they can take their own. A frugal person would not eat on the train at all or would be taking a bus, but more likely not travelling at all.

Regarding buffet breakfasts.
I have paid for a meal. Does it matter that I eat it in two halves? Schuler thinks so. I don't.
How much will the hotel throw out anyway?

What if I got there when the buffet first opened and had something to eat and stayed there until they were about to close and had some more. Would that be allright? Or would that be stealing?

Buffets are never fair to the purchaser as the light eaters and no shows will always out number the big eaters, even though everyone is charged the same. You can be sure of one thing - the Hotel is NOT losing money.

There is no need for God to forgive me, for He made me what I am.

The silly topics are always the most fun! What shall we debate now?
Taking shampoos/tea/coffee from the rooms?
Using an extra pillow and blanket on the plane?
Using the toilets in McDonald's with making a purchase?
Taking extra toilet paper from a public toilet so you have some if the next one doesn't?

All silly, but I'm sure to have offended someone.


Insomnia is such fun. See you all tomorrow or later today actually.

Sorry Peter. It's neither thrifty or frugal. It's stealing. Hotel owners will agree. You paid for breakfast... to be eaten in the breakfast room. You did not buy lunch to be taken with you.

You're making cheap excuses for your actions.

And I hope you don't nick toilet rolls from a public toilet. God and the rest of the world won't forgive you for that.

As long as the food you take is packaged properly and not raw or animal products I think you will be fine.>>

lol - we once brought a chicken back on the plane from Paris -my excuse was that it was a "cordon rouge" one that you couldn't get in england then. and oysters! not sure they'd let us do that now, or that I'd bother.

and what about pork pies? sausage rolls? ham sandwiches? do i have to stuff them all down on the plane?

And by the way, hotels would lose money if everyone used their breakfast buffet for breakfast and lunch! Many of our European hotels are not big money makers and some are just barely scraping by.

I knew I'd offend someone. It is just too easy sometimes.

Dried fish on an Icelandic bus is sissy stuff.
I sat near an old lady on the bus from Reykjavik to Akureyri who was eating a raw egg.
It was quite a bumpy bus ride and I just had to avert my eyes.
I couldn't close my ears though ;-)
I must be very po-faced, but I think it is pretty pathetic to pocket the toiletries in an hotel.
As for pinching the loo paper!

Late to the party, but I had a huge laugh this morning about the comments on cost. I almost shot water out my nose when I read this:

<i>totally disagree that equivalent food (or better) is more expensive anywhere in Europe.</i>

Clearly, StCirq has either a) never been to Switzerland (or Scandinavia), b) has never been to the US, or c) hasn't actually looked at the cost of groceries in any of those countries. The price of many foodstuffs in Switzerland is shocking. Dining out borders on the obscene, even for casual meals.

Now, I am firmly in the camp of never sacrificing eating local food due to cost. I also don't snack, and would only substitute something like a bag of tuna for a meal under extreme duress. But, others may disagree, and good for them.

But, I don't think people should spread blatantly false information, either. Claiming that supermarket food is not more expensive in Switzerland (or, frankly, much of Europe), is spreading blatantly false information.

annhig--and what about pork pies? sausage rolls? ham sandwiches? do i have to stuff them all down on the plane?>>

On a flight from Europe to the US a few weeks ago, I didn't eat the ham sandwich (wrapped in plastic) served on the short hop from Sarajevo to Munich and stuck it in my bag. We had Weisswurst and beer in the Munich airport and some chicken on the flight Munich to Boston and forgot about the sandwich until we were going to customs. When in response to a question about food my husband mentioned the sandwich, we were sent to a separate line where the sandwich was confiscated (ham from Bavaria not allowed) and we were interrogated about other food we might have. For the first time I was glad I had forgotten to pack the dried mushrooms my friend offered me from the Sarajevo market. I would have hated to see them thrown out.

VT - your husband's mistake was clearly in remembering the ham sandwich!

We take some snacks in our carryon because we have experienced flight delays and overnight stays with no food available. A grenolla bar or a pack of nabs, peanuts, a candy bar, etc. are wonderful at 3:00 AM when nothing else is available. We also take a drink at times, purchased at exhorbanant prices, in the after security sales area for later use. We are seasoned travelers and being prepared is part of traveling. We do not take a large amount, just enough for a night or two. If we do not eat on the plane or at the airport, they come in really handy when traveling in a city and eating them while taking a break from walking.

As for Switzerland's grocery stores being outrageously expensive, I don't agree. Fruit and vegetables are priced about the same in the States. So is bread and chocolate. Cheese and meat are expensive in Switzerland. In fact, Swiss cheese is often more expensive in Switzerland than abroad.

Fast food and restaurants are indeed more expensive than the States but we don't have to add 15% to the bill. Eat at Migros, Coop or Manor cafeteria-style restaurants and you'll save money and have a nice selection as well.

<i>As for Switzerland's grocery stores being outrageously expensive, I don't agree. Fruit and vegetables are priced about the same in the States.</i>

Are there some things that are as cheap in Switzerland as elsewhere? Sure, but I doubt there is much, if anything that is cheaper. And the pricing on the things you cite as more expensive are mind-numbingly high. Consider the cost of ground beef at Coop, which according to their website is CHF 2 per 100 gm. That is over $9 per pound and double to triple (or more) the cost in the US. Heck, even at Savenor's, which is a high-end butcher in Boston, you can get ground beef (Prime grade, ground fresh daily) for $3.99 per pound!

<i>Fast food and restaurants are indeed more expensive than the States but we don't have to add 15% to the bill.</i>

Well, you don't have to add 15% to the bill at McDs in the US, either. And even factoring in the tip, the cost is nowhere near as high. A Big Mac in Switzerland, according to the McDs website is $6.70.

The real absurdity in Switzerland, though, is the pricing at casual restaurants. A plate of Yaki Soba at Wagamama in Zurich is roughly $22.50. A plate of Yaki Soba at Wagamama in Boston is $9.75. Add on a 20% tip and the 6.5% meals tax that some love to use as a cop-out when discussing prices, and you get $12.33. In my experience, pricing of roughly double is very common, even after accounting for taxes and tips.

At the high-end, pricing tends to level out, but folks dining at such places are almost certainly not as sensitive to price differences as others.

<i>Eat at Migros, Coop or Manor cafeteria-style restaurants and you'll save money and have a nice selection as well.</i>

I see this a lot. And I don't get it. I've eaten at all of the above and none of them are very good - none of them are even as good as my college cafeteria was. I wouldn't recommend Luby's or Old Country Buffet to someone asking about dining in the US, and can't recommend any of the above for the same reasons. And, FWIW, I wouldn't describe any of these as cheap by any means. One can readily spend CHF 15 or more without trying at any of these places.

That these places are so often mentioned as the cheap options in Switzerland, frankly, proves the point about how high prices are in Switzerland, and how low the quality is at the cheap places.

tg - Waging a war against misrepresentations of food prices in Switzerland.

Travelgourmet:

I said in my post meat and cheese was expensive. Please read again. No misrepresentation was done.

However, our salaries are generally quite good to extremely good in Switzerland which is why we can afford the prices. And the standard of living is quite high here too. Of course, for tourists on a budget, Switzerland is more expensive than neighbouring countries.

As for the cafeteria-style restaurants, some are indeed very good. Some aren't. It's a bit of hit or miss.

I personally would rather wage a war on the mind boggling salaries/bonuses some of our bankers make. Now that's unfair.

Perhaps it's not so much the prices in Switzerland that are excessivley high, but the value of the US dollar which is so week.

I am always surprised at the concern of American tourists over prices, and their need to keep within a restricted budget, when most of the locals you see in European restaurants can afford to eat well.

<i>Perhaps it's not so much the prices in Switzerland that are excessivley high, but the value of the US dollar which is so week.</i>

Nope. Prices in Switzerland are high by any objective measure. I thought them high, even though I was coming from similarly high-priced Denmark. Geneva and Zurich, in particular, almost always place in the top ten most expensive city surveys.

To whit, the CIA factbook pegs the nominal Swiss GDP at $494.6bn, and GDP at PPP at $314.7bn. That is a whopping 36% discount off of nominal values. Germany, for comparison sees their nominal GDP discounted by only 16%. Japan sees their nominal GDP discounted by roughly 19%. France clocks in at 21%. The Swiss gap is striking, and not readily explained by a strong Franc (which, FWIW, should lead to lower prices for imports, reducing the nominal-PPP gap).

<i>I am always surprised at the concern of American tourists over prices, and their need to keep within a restricted budget, when most of the locals you see in European restaurants can afford to eat well.</i>

Well, those locals aren't eating out every night, either. And my experience in Switzerland is that the Swiss don't eat out as often as many Americans. I think this drives the convergence at the high end that I talked about. Particularly in US urban areas, there are a lot of options for dining out to replace cooking at home, rather than dining out for the experience of dining out. Such places are not as common in Switzerland.

As for the concern over prices, I'm not overly surprised. Many folks are traveling on a budget and need to be mindful of that budget. This is why I think it is not helpful to gloss over just how expensive food is in Switzerland, lest folks be in for an unpleasant surprise when they hit the ground.

travelgourmet: are you walkingaround's brother?

<i>travelgourmet: are you walkingaround's brother?</i>

Nope. But having lived in the US and Switzerland, it hurts my head when people minimize just how expensive Switzerland is. It is almost certainly among the top 5 or 10 most expensive countries in the world. The only places I've found to rival it for costs are Norway and Denmark. The real kicker, though, is that the food is so often not good, particularly when dining on a budget.

I'm not a huge proponent of hauling in your own snacks, but the combination of high prices and poor quality (among lower-priced options) in Switzerland screams for the cost-conscious to stock up before leaving Germany or France or Italy. I'd say the same for Norway and Denmark.

The one saving grace for Swiss supermarkets is that, unlike Denmark and Norway, there are more options (both variety and quality) available, assuming you are willing to pay for it. Oddly, the opposite seems to be the case for restaurants, where I find the quality and variety to be significantly better in Denmark, particularly at the extreme high end.

"I must be very po-faced, but I think it is pretty pathetic to pocket the toiletries in an hotel."

They have been paid for as part of the room rate, and can come in useful when traveling to places where one might not get toiletreis in the bathroom, and small sizes are needed to fit in the allowed 1-quart bag. Sometimes they are just reminders of a wonderful stay, as when I saved the small glass bottle of shampoo from a wonderful lodge while on safari in South Africa. They can also be donated to homeless shelters once home, or sent on mission trips to poor countries, along with small toys one has saved from their children's "happy meals" at McD's and so forth.

"I must be very po-faced, but I think it is pretty pathetic to pocket the toiletries in an hotel."

Color me pathetic then ;) What else are the toiletries there for if not to be used or taken by the guest? Are they just decoration like the little "guest soaps" shaped like roses and ducks that some people put in their bathrooms at home?

Well, it takes all sorts.
I use the soap, shampoo etc. but I would never fill my pockets with the stuff I don't use, any more than I would take packets of sugar from a cafe. I have actually seen that BTW.

There was an article a while back about stealing from hotels. The hotel managers interviewed all seemed to agree that toiletries were fair game. Will try to find the link, but it was in one of the major travel mags.

If you take toiletries (not the wall-mounted soap dispenser, of course) back home, you do the hotel the favor of having the reminder of a (hopefully) nice stay around you for a longer time. Same with pencils, ball pens, and small notebooks (not the leather-bound case of the stationary, of course). The hotel would probably even pay you € 20 cash money, if you promised to show off your 3c worth pencil from the Vienna Hilton to your co-workers back home.
You can also take your nightly sweet treat back home if you don't like to eat it on the spot.
That's called post-purchase marketing or maintaining a post-purchase relationship with the customer.

Any other items, like bathrobes, slippers, sometimes even towels often come with a note saying that you can purchase them if you want. Those items are not for free, obviously.
Also not for free are the remote control, the flatscreen TV, the alarm clock, the chamber maid, furniture, lamps, faucets, the trouser press, and so on.

At hotel buffets, you do not take items with you unless you are clearly invited to do so. Which is a bit rare, but I've been at hotels that invited you to take fruits or yoghurt with you from the buffet. But I don't find that to be the norm (yet). Budget hotels rather advertise the different message.
Taking one apple or one banana from a buffet might be acceptable if there is no note - but helping yourself to a few extra sandwiches or fill up empty bottles with the OJ is clearly not, IMO. I might not even call the latter stealing, but definetely showing bad manners.
Many hotels exclude the breakfast buffet from their rates these days anyway. So you can decide if you are hungry enough for the buffet or rather have a coffee and croissant elsewhere.

Also not for free are ..... the chamber maid....

Spoilsport!

"I must be very po-faced, but I think it is pretty pathetic to pocket the toiletries in an hotel."

So how does waste figure in? Do you really think a hotel is going to leave a partially used mini bottle of shampoo for the next guest?

...Actually, that happened to me once in a cheapo hotel - talk about pennywise and pound foolish.

For what it's worth, I find food in Switzerland very expensive, but less so since I've been living in Australia!

I take the toiletries if they are particularly nice. I know I am probably very easily pleased but when I use them at home they are a nice reminder of that holiday. We had Hermes toiletries in our hotel in Athens, and one morning when I asked for one thing in particular (can't remember now) the chamber maid gave me some extras of everything. You can bet your bottom dollar I took them home!!

>>>>
travelgourmet: are you walkingaround's brother?
>>>>

why are you dragging me into this?

no we're not related but apparently we share a common disdain for the use of misinformation. the problem here on fodors is that misinformation is often left unchallenged when it is used in support of ideas that are popular here.

in this example we see a warped interpretation of OP's question. we then gang up and try to teach the OP our trite little lessons using whatever misinformation we can think of. i'll leave it to TG to argue the costs of food in CH vs america but i do know that it is downright ridiculous to gang up on the OP to teach some kind of lesson about bringing 'evil' american food to europe. it was clearly explained that the OP just wants to bring some snacks to avoid having to buy them locally for various reasons. makes perfect sense to me for many reasons and frankly i travel more around europe more than 99% of people on this board and i do exactly the same thing. why?...

-european food shops are often quite restricted in opening times and i don't want to depend on looking around when i arrive somewhere, especially if it's late.

-travelling already requires a rather huge check-list of things to do - taxi to airport, security, waiting, immigration, get local currency, taxi or figuring out transport to hotel, check-in, etc, etc. why add shopping for things that i can just as easily bring from home to that list?

-i want/need some snacks for the room and i do not want to depend on the mini-bar or room service and it's far easier to throw some light energy bars in my bag than to go shopping for them locally (or 'wonderful' cheeses, tampinades, or wind-dried meats for that matter). i think we all understand the difference between eating for enjoyment and the occasional need for some quick calories.

-i enjoy long, drawn out continental meals as much as everyone but at times i prioritise other things...in many places on the continent, it's simply not possible or convenient to get a quick meal (or a quick meal that is not 'fast food'). sometimes you'd rather do something other than spending 90+ minutes for a lunch. i think that's what the OP is saying, janis.

-i travel to the continent so often that a visit to a continental supermarket is not a rare treat to be savoured. yes it's enjoyable when there is time and inclination but i feel no need to take advantage of every opportunity to shop in one. and i certainly don't need american europhiles TEACHING me how great they are.

-i have a condition that necessitates that i have easy access to a snack when required- i feel no need to join the party in declaring myself a person who doesn't snack - presumably to set oneself apart from americans who we like to think of as constantly munching on junk food.

but what do we expect? did we really think that a poster asking about bringing a few simple items of (presumably) AMERICAN food to EUROPE would get a simple answer free of condescending lectures?

This thread is getting like those tedious discussions about whether you should carry some euro with you when travelling from the United States, or rely on visiting an ATM in the airport on arrival. It's all a matter of balance.

Carrying some bars of chocolate or muesli is a sensible idea, while the thought of a fellow train passenger eating sachets of tuna fills me with horror.

Similarly I have experienced all the cash machines in a town being out of order, and having enough money to buy lunch was an advantage.

Perhaps what I find most distressing is the attitude that non-American food is somehow insubstantial, unavailable or dangerous, and that the price differentials between countries are some sort of conspiracy. Any difference in prices between countries will depend on the exchange rate, consumer preferences and variations in the standard of living.

>>>>>
Perhaps what I find most distressing is the attitude that non-American food is somehow insubstantial, unavailable or dangerous, and that the price differentials between countries are some sort of conspiracy.
>>>>>>

that's what we WANT to see in the OP's post - because it plays nicely with our teachings that americans are xenophobic, in need of 'substantial' food-presumably because they are fat, arrogant and paranoid. but the reality is that no such thing is said or implied by the OP or anyone else on this thread. the OP just wanted to bring a few snacks with him for various reasons (as very clearly explained). and for all the reasons together he thinks it's a good idea to bring some snacks (hardly something that takes very much effort) - and whether you agree or disagree or would do the same thing yourself, it's hardly irrational or sinister in any way. you people really need to put things in perspective.

I thought that would get you going. Motes and beams, old chap, motes and beams.