I suggest you go to www.nationalrail.co.uk and test out fares to Edinburgh for your time period, and for (say), 5 January, and compare the difference. The only fares I'd consider reasonable are of course the least flexible.

Well, you've given us lots to think about. Patrick, I looked at fares and I see your point.

Stu, I like you style! We're hoping to do essentially the same thing when we retire. Do you have a consistent "home base" in Europe every year? I always envy people who can weekend in (name a European capital) because they don't have to first cross the Atlantic.

Yes, it's a lot of money for a short time. And we're already paying for an apartment in London.

>>Do you have a consistent "home base" in Europe every year? <<

Nope - we travel around. But we usually spend 2 weeks in one spot and then move on to spend 2 weeks in another area. Sometimes 4 weeks in a single base. About 75% of our travel is in France, 15% in Italy, and 10% elsewhere since we retired (early) in '99 so we could travel more. We stay in Gites (houses) in France and have stayed in 33 different Gites in about 28 various regions in France. We've stayed in several gites multiple times for a total of 74 weeks. We've also spent 11 weeks in apartments in Paris and 4 weeks in an apt in St Tropez since we retired. This year we spent 2 1/2 weeks in an apt in London. Our closest friends owned an apt in Tuscany, so we mooched off of them.

Here is something I posted a while back about renting Gites in France through Gites-de-France.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...e-web-site.cfm

Stu Dudley

Seconding Stu - Edinburgh in February will be damp, cold and dark (it's at a latitude above Edmonton, the northernmost city in the Western Hemisphere with > 400K residents). Too much else to do in Scotland in ADDITION to Edinburgh.

Scotland > Ireland; Edinburgh > Dublin.

<i>(it's at a latitude above Edmonton, the northernmost city in the Western Hemisphere with > 400K residents)</i>

Edmonton is on the same latitude as Manchester which is 200 miles south of Edinburgh

Okay, you've convinced us. We're going to stay in London; maybe take a short day trip or two if the spirit moves us. This is why Fodors is so valuable; thanks to everyone for your input!

Ellen

Is a paper Travelcard(also supporting the 2 for 1 schemes) purchased at any of the National Railway Stations, also valid on underground tube-railways?

Yes.

ellen--I think you are wise to stay in London. You definitely won't run out of things to do!

Just a couple suggestions, since you are still exploring/learning:

1.I hope you have the terminology as straight as you can. Do NOT buy any "Passes"--they are NOT worth the money.

2.We did what xyz above suggests--We surveyed the 2for1 sites on the website before we left home and printed out the vouchers for places we might go. Upon arrival, we bought Oysters (the plastic/credit card like device) at Heathrow with the amount loaded that the agent suggested based on our proposed travel plans and rooms. (We topped this up easily with Capitol One credit card at a couple places over the next couple of weeks as I recall.). The day before we planned to use 2for1 vouchers, we stopped by a National RAIL Station and bought ONE DAY zone 1-2 paper Travelcards and used that the next day. At the end of one trip we turned Oysters in for refunds on what was left; at the end of another trip we kept the Oysters and I then took them with me this past June and used up the little bit left on them.

I have found that for us the Oyster card was cheaper than the 7-day card by a bit, plus we got back any unused funds. On the 7day card, it's spent whether you use the card that day or not. It's not a lot of savings, though. We were only interested, as it turned out, in using 2for1 vouchers, on one day, so our plan worked well for us. If you have several such sites spread out over a few days, then the 7-day PAPER Travelcard purchased at a RAIL station will make more sense I imagine.

The other consideration in your case is --how are you getting from LHR to rooms? If via the Tube, then you're going to need something (and you can't buy the paper Travelcards at LHR) and so might as well get the Oyster. If you are getting a car service, then this is not an issue. (The Tube or a car service like justairports are the two best options IMO.)

3. For a possible day trip, you might consider Oxford. There is a bus service (two different lines running the same routes for the same price at about the same times--OxfordEspress and OxfordTube--which is NOT the Tube like the subway in London but a coach/bus). You just show up at a stop, like Marble Arch, and pay on the bus. No reservations required, and this bus drops you a bit closer closer to the middle of town than the train station is. Oxford is my favorite non-London place in the UK so far, and this bus/coach service is so convenient and can be something you plan the night before.

Enjoy!

Oxford makes a good day trip in the winter. Windsor would be another possibility. Look at www.walks.com, a favorite of Fodorites, for escorted day trips as well as the many shorter walking tours in London.

I think buying Oysters and daily travelcards on the days you want to use the 2for1 is a waste because you have to pay the daily travelcard fare, which eats into the amount saved in the 2for1 offer, and you're unlikely to hit all the 2for1 spots in one day. Thus, buy the 7-day travelcard and you won't have to mess with it again.

No Big Russ...you don't get the suggestion. If you're using PAYG n oyster that is if you put cash into the PAYG account that every oyster card allows, on the day you buy a one day travelcard you don't use the oyster...you use the one day travelcard for all your transportation needs that day. You are right if it's a 7 day travelcard that you put on the oyster card. I will say it again, if you do the cap amount every day during a 7 day period in London with PAYG, you will spend a moderate amount of money more than you would by going with the 7 day travelcard. But you will find in the natural course of events, there might be a day or two where you hardly use any public transportation or perhaps just the buses (any day you use only buses, the cap for that day on PAYG is somewhat less than the cost of a one day travelcard). I'm talking from my own experience. You do a one day trip out of London, what do you do with London public transportation? I used to think that 4 days was the make or break point of PAYG vs. 7 day card....I have bumped it up to 5 and quite frankly the last couple of times I basically broke even 5 days PAYG vs. 7 day travelcard.....I'm getting wordy again and I don't have the new tfl fare sheet in front of me which will be, of course, a further increase but you know something, no decision is final...you might just as well buy an oyster card at Heathrow and use it the first day and then pick up the 7 day paper card in town as the oyster card is fully refundable including the deposit.....

I don't know, seeing all this discussion back and forth makes me think that maybe it wasn't all me after all! :)

Seriously, though, it sounds like the Oyster card from LHR (yes, we're taking the tube into town) then the paper card for either 7 or fewer days is the way to go. texas, I loved "Do not buy any passes" - very simple and to the point!

Funny you should mention Oxford; we were just talking about how we'd like to see it and that it might be a good day trip. I like the fact that it lends itself to spur-of-the-moment planning, too. I'll take a look at both those sites.

And we're both fine with no side trip to Edinburgh this trip. In addition to saving money, it will make our stay in London much less hectic. Too many places to visit and too little time!

ellen--glad to help--I'm not often complimented for being very simple and to the point--ask my hubby! (and see the following!)

And, yes, the whole Tube fare thing is confusing. Everyone's trip--arrival, planned itinerary, accomodations, preferred use of time and money--is unique, and so suggestions are going to range rather widely. In your case, I'd still probably suggest using the Oyster primarily and getting the paper travel cards only for the days you will use 2for1 options. If you are going to the "usual" places, most of them are free or don't take the vouchers. The Tower does, and the day you go there would be an obvious day to use a paper Travelcard.

And do you have 7 FULL days or does this include that first partial day (YOU WILL BE TIRED, but get out and walk as much as you can, but don't plan anything really important as you might not rememeber it clearly!) If you don't have 7 full days, and you plan a day trip, then again the 7daypapercard might end up costing a wee bit more than what you would spend on the PAYG Oyster.

Oh, and also pay attention to Peak and off-Peak stipulation. We always had to go with the Peak fares because we got early starts.

Have you gotten familiar with the TfL website? Transport for London? Do so. It has info on planned closures and problems on all London lines, especially the Tube, listed as far in advance as possible, and if you have access to the internet while there, it pays to check for the unplanned Tube issues. It also has all sorts of other info, including fares and maps and such, but the most important thing for us has been its posting of Tube "issues."

(And another bit of vocab--"train" refers to both those things that you get in to use the Tube/Underground system, even if that vehicle travels above ground, like it does for quite a ways coming from LHR, as well as what I think of as a train--thing that runs on rails all above ground, usually to other cities/towns.) (And maybe you already have this one figured out, but I didn't until I got there--there are many stations that house both the Tube/Underground AND rail lines, e.g., Victoria. If you opt for buying any of the much-discussed PAPER Travelcards, you will need to get it from the RAIL part of the station.) (And if/when you see a "Subway" sign, it doesn't mean the Tube; it means a below the surface pedestrian passage/tunnel, usually passing under really busy street intersections.)

And another fun site is walkit.com. You can plug in different sites/addresses in London and it will show you walking distances and 3 different times based on your pace. I found it to be sometimes more accurate than the walking option on Google maps.

another suggestion for a day trip on a sunny day - Brighton.

fast train from Victoria, time to wander around the Lanes [quaint little streets lined with "antique" shops] see the Royal Pavillion, walk along the prom or the beach, have a fish and chip supper or a few oysters and get a train back to London.

Oh and Ellen...one thing to remember while you're riding the tube:

Mind the gap!

Cheers

texas, yes we have very close to 7 full days. We arrive around noon on a Sunday from JFK by way of Keflavik (we're stopping in Reykjavik on the return). I do well in that direction - I think the adrenaline kicks in because I'm so happy to be back in Europe. If I keep moving I'm good to go until 9 or 10. (Coming home is a different story, however...). Having said that, we never plan anything on the first day. But we do have 7 additional days after that, leaving the following Sunday night for Reykjavik.

I noticed references in this thread to TfL and was going to look it up. Thanks for the information; it's a good website.

I understand what you're saying about the train vs. underground. That's similar to Paris; in some stations you could find yourself on the RER (train) level when you want the metro. Good info, though and much appreciated.

annhig, my husband had talked about the possibility of brighton and in fact I looked at it the other day. It's on the list. Lately London weather has been very mild. If that continues, Brighton might be a good idea.

And of course, we'll definitely Mind the gap! :)

Happy New Year to all Fodorites!

Another question...when I go to the site to print out the 2 for 1 vouchers, it asks for a date. Does that matter? Right now I don't know when we'll want to visit what, and I don't think we'll have access to a printer once we get to London.

Thanks!
Ellen

Well, printing's (almost) free. You could print multiple coupons for a given site, one each for the likely days.

Duh, Mimar, what didn't I think of that? I'll do that. Especially compared to the cost of the trip, a little toner and a few pieces of paper are pretty insignificant! Sometimes the obvious is right in front of you and you don't see it. Thanks!