Overwhelmed!
 

My husband and I are planning a trip to Europe in May 2011. One of our stops will be London for 4 full days/nights. I am realizing that London could never been seen in 4 days, BUT we want to see as much as possible. I have yet to get any travel books but def plan on it. I am in the first month of planning, so I am figuring out how much goes into planning a European vacation. LOTS!!!! Anyway, just wanted to get some feedback on places that are Must Do's and places we shouldn't waste time on. We have compiled a list of things to see...knowing that we will have to pick and choose from this list. I have a friend who lived in London for 1 1/2 months, and she suggested Gordon's Wine Bar and Waggamama's. I am still in the proccess of asking around to friends who have been....just thought this might point me in the right direction!! I am up for any and all comments/suggestions/advice!!!! If all goes as planned, our plane tix will be for an overnight flight from ATL. We will leave around 5:45-6:00 pm and arrive in London at 7:00 am. I know it will take a few hours to get out of the airport, to our hotel, and settle down. I am hoping that we will not have too much of an issue w jet lag....im sure we will have some....but the plan is to sleep the WHOLE way there, just as if we were at home (except the going to bed at 6:30-7:00) and waking up with it being morning! I will take a benadryl or simply sleep if I have to! I have searched other forums of London to help compile this list and also lots of google-ing! I also know I need to get a map and group things together as well as learn the trains we need to take. I will do all of these things, just as many of you advise us first timers on...but I wanted to know what to see first, then I can map it all out. I love this site....SUPER helpful!
Our List (of too many things ;) )
British Musem
Natural History Museum
Science Museum
London Eye
Tower of London and Bridge
Trafalgar square
Leicester Square
Shakespear's Globe Theatre
Vinopolis
Clink prison
Hyde Park
Westminister Abbey
Buckingham Palace -changing of guards
St Paul's Cathedral
Windsor Castle
Stonehenge
Bath
Oxford
Thames River cruise
Camden Lock Market
Parliament House
Covent Gardens
Harrods
Tate Modern Museum
Imperial War museum
Regent Street
Hampton Court Palace
Top Shop (this is only for me :) Sorry, but I HAVE to go! )
Gordon's Wine Bar
Waggamamas

What you have listed would take at least 8 or 9 days - since Bath and Oxford are each day trips. Stonehenge might be done along with Bath - and Windsor Castle is also a 1/2 day out of town.

You will need to make a lot of difficult decisions or extend your trip.

suggest you read a couple of guide books and then decide what YOU rally want to see.

And I would e4xcahnge the V&A and the Museum of London for some of the places you have listed (Clink?? Imperial War Museum unless you love military history).

Welcome to the forums. You've come to a good place for some good advice based on lots of travel experience.

To begin with, you do realize, I hope, that much of what you have listed here is NOT in London? Bath, Stonehenge, etc.

With just four days to spend, I'd eliminate Harrods altogether and seriously consider which, if any, day trips you consider musts.

In London proper, I'd be sure to include the British Museum and Westminster.

Do you not have theatre plans at all? It's something to do in the evening besides dinner and most of your other options are daytime only.

Best wishes for a great first trip to Europe!

You need to put this list into order by things that you absolutely would cry if you didn't get to see, things that you'd really like to see and things that you want to see if you have time and are in the area. The general rule of thumb is 2-3 locations per day, but there are some things (like Hyde Park) that are essientially a "drive by" stop and barely count. Just add those stops in whenever you're in the area.

Stonehenge, Bath and Oxford are not in London. These are all individual day trips from London and (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here) I don't think that you could even realistically combine two of the three for a single day trip.

Tower of London, Windsor Castle, Hampton Court Palace are all half day events. Windsor and HCP are both out of town on a train or bus but very easy to get to. St Pauls and Westminster Abbey were both half day events for me and I would advise at least a few hours each for both of those, but it depends on your level of interest. I love taking tours at locations to get more information and that often takes a longer time.

The Museums are all subjective. You can spend very little time or days. I think I left the British Museum after 1-2 hours but I was mainly just interested in the Egyptian stuff.


What are your (and your husbands) interests? If you want history and architecture, then you'll want more time in the cathedral, abbey, palace and castle type places. If you want shopping, then those may be shorter time slots for you. We can't narrow the list down for you and need to know a bit more about your intersts. Personally, I have no interest in seeing the changing of the guard but many people do. If that really matters to you, my opinion wouldn't be helpful! :)

Plan on doing something that's a bit of a throwaway that first day. Some people bounce back fairly well but many are a bit hazy the first day.


To add a single thing to your list, the Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower of London is a lot of fun and somewhat late in the evening so it really doesn't impact other sightseeing. I would suggest going to the Tower during the day sometime before the Ceremony just so that you can pay attention to the Ceremony instead of looking around wide-eyed. Also, when you're at the Tower, get there right when they open and go straight for the Jewel Tower. You can walk straight in and spend whatever time you want inside. If you go in later, the line will be out the door 100+ feet. Once you've done that, then join up with a free yeoman warder tour. They have great information and are really fun.

I combined riding the Eye and taking pictures of Parliament building. I took a late ride on the Eye, right before dusk and then took pictures of Parliament as the light changed and into full dark.

Saige...I did realize that several of the things listed were not in London. I just compiled a list of all the things ppl said were worth seeing from the forums here and google-ing.

I do plan on getting travel guides/books...which I guess I should look at first. Just wanted an idea of places ppl thought I should throw out. As far as what we are interested in...we are just a cluster of organized chaos...a little history, some art, pubs, food, anything to wow us. I, of course, like shopping but the husband...not so much. I need to ask my husband what he is REALLY interested in seeing when we go...and I need to really sit down w myself and do the same. It is just so overwhelming to know all the things that are out there to see. Minimizing the list is the hard part. Thanks for your responses...when I get my guide book maybe that will put some things into perspective.

Oh...also meant to add that yes, we are interested in seeing a Play/Musical/Comedy of some sort. Don't know what we want to see yet, but would def want that to be part of our trip.

tds0212, you have a loooong time left before your trip. For what it's worth, I planned my first trip to London and Paris in 2000 about three weeks before I left! Actually I had no plan; there was a United airfare special for ten days in London and I just booked it, then decided to go to Paris once I got to London. I did my research for Paris on the train over from London.

Not to suggest that people should plan their trips at the last minute (I do more advanced planning now - a little bit anyway!), only to remind you that you can still see new places and get a lot out of them without spending months and months researching every detail and optimizing every hour with military precision. And please resist the temptation to see EVERYTHING. One of the joys of Europe isn't "sites" so much as enjoying the place. In Paris in particular, the highlight for me is just strolling around the beautiful neighborhoods and gardens, seeing the Eiffel Tower or the Arc de Triomphe in the background, etc. and thinking, "Wow, I'm in PARIS!!! Cool!!!" I'll always remember that feeling of my first visit to Paris of feeling in some sort of exotic, beautiful place. But I can barely remember the specific things I did (beyond spending five hours marching through the Louve, of which I can remember about two things).

Whatever your plan, give yourself breathing room in your schedule just to chill now and then. And don't think you've got to see every possible attraction in just a few days. See a few highlights, enjoy the experience and move on. Assume you'll come back. (I've been to Paris three times and London twice. It's always been a joy to return.)

Andrew...your post is very true. I tend to get a little excited and because I am a planner I think I should have everything tg way in advance. I do want to see as much as possible but in all honesty I want to have a relaxed and fun time! I can just imagine taking a Cruise down the Seine, drinking a bottle of wine, and seeing the Eiffel Tower light up at night!! Paris is on our list as well. I know I need to take a "chill pill" and just live in the moment.:) I am trying...haha! A lot of ppl ask what our interests are...and truth be told, our interest is just having fun and indulging ourselves. BUT with that being said, I don't want to look back and think..."we should have looked into this a little more so that we could see this or that or do this or that" I commend you for planning your trip "semi" last minute. You sound like my husband...he is NOT a planner!!! Opposites attract i suppose bc I am a SUPER PLANNER! haha!

In your recalculating -- consider:

<B>1)</B> "<i>but the plan is to sleep the WHOLE way there,</i>" . . . Not very likely. First of all they will serve dinner probably 45+ minutes after takeoff. Then after-dinner beverages. Then they'll wake you for Breakfast. If you are <u>lucky</u> you'll get about 3 hours fitful sleep. Or very possibly - no sleep at all. Especially if you are in the preferred aisle seats - since the poor schmoes in the middle/window seats will have to wake you every time they need to get up.

<B>2)</B> What you've listed would very easily fill 2 weeks and you'd still have to rush to squeeze them in. If you want to see/do all or most of that humongous list -- why not JUST go to London/the UK.

Bath/Stonehenge can be done in one day on an expensive guided bus tour, or <i>just</i> possible on your own (train to Salisbury, cab to Stonehenge and back, train to Bath, train to London) but you would be on a dead run.

<B>3)</B> Some of your list are just "there" -- walk by's instead of sites you go inside of:
Tower Bridge (you can go inside but it isn't necessary)
Trafalgar square
Leicester Square
Buckingham Palace (as long as you skip the Guard change)
Parliament/Big Ben

But even so, the rest of the list is very time intensive.

<B>4)</B> Several places on the list are full days or 1/2 days by themselves (especially when you include the travel time):

British Musem
Tower of London
Windsor Castle
Stonehenge & Bath
Oxford
Hampton Court Palace

<B>5)</B> Of the rest, these take between 2 and 3 hours each:

Natural History Museum
Science Museum
Globe Theatre
Hyde Park
Westminister Abbey
Changing of Guard
St Paul's Cathedral
Windsor Castle
Thames River cruise
Camden Lock Market
Covent Gardens
Harrods
Tate Modern Museum
Imperial War museum

SO -- as you can see, in 3.5 days you need to cut back to about 20% of your list. Count on 2 major sites and maybe one small/'minor' place a day - or 1 major and <i>maybe</i> one minor-ish site on an out-of-town day (Bath, or HCP, or Windsor, or Oxford). That is about all you can realistically manage.

Actually, tds0212, I am a planner too - just in a different way than some people. I plan the logistics of a trip pretty carefully now. I usually take public transit when I go to Europe and have become pretty precise in getting down the info of what bus or train I need to get where and when, etc. I bring a little notebook with me with a page for every city. Planning London - Paris - Amsterdam is trivial compared to Italy-Slovenia-Croatia, a trip I did last fall (buses, catamarans, ferries, etc.).

But I'm more worried about the logistics than anything else - because if I make a mistake (oops - that train ride is HOW LONG?) I could waste a lot of time. Once I've got the logistics worked out, then I do a more thorough study of what I really want to see in each place. I first glance at a guide book and see what the highlights are and what interests me and jot them down on that city's page. Then I'll read the forum posts here and on Trip Advisor to get more ideas.

But honestly, there are usually only a few "must sees" in every city anyway. You could list a hundred things on London alone that sound super interesting, but since you can't see them all, no point in trying! I'd rather see the highlights and enjoy strolling and getting to know a place rather than see twice as many things and feel overwhelmed by everything. We all have limited attention spans to some degree - once everything starts looking the same, what's the point of seeing more things? Sometimes "more is less" really is true. So I don't worry a whole lot about missing things. If I love a place, I can always come back.


I think you should check out a Rick Steves book for London at least - he's quite good at giving subjective advice ("This is wonderful...that's a waste of time.") that you may not always agree with - but once you learn his biases, you can decide whether to follow his advice or not. Many other guidebooks make EVERYTHING sound great so it's hard to choose between them.

"<i>I think you should check out a Rick Steves book for London at least -</i>"

But, unfortunately RS (who is terrific for a lot of places/countries) is not that great for the UK in general and London in particular.

(I met him once at a local PBS pledge drive and talked to him for maybe 30+ minutes over coffee. He was very frank about the UK being among his least favorite European countries -- and IMO it shows in his guidebooks)

Actually, do you know what Rick's favorite country in the world is? INDIA! I heard him say so on a show recently. He claims he's never done a book on it because for him it's sort of HIS vacation!

I still like the style of his books, even if he doesn't write them (some of them he doesn't even write anymore). Unless I'm going to spend weeks there, I am sure I would get the gist of the UK from his books. He's also good at incorporating tips from other travelers into his books.

<<< I am sure I would get the gist of the UK from his books. >>>

You won't - if you follow his advice you'd be using a taxi round London, staying in some "unusual" hotels and eating at "eccentric" restaurants

And if someone else is writing them then the claim that the UK is his least favourite country shouldn't make any difference to the UK books - yet they do. Don't use RS for the UK.

Just my opinion, but here goes....

British Musem - interesting and free so you could spend all day or pop in for an hour and concentrate on one area.

Natural History Museum - more for kids I think

Science Museum - never been but my husband enjoyed it

London Eye - a must for the visitor but get there early or you will queue for hours. Pick a good, clear day for views.

Tower of London and Bridge - another must, though they are separate things. You could spend all day at The Tower, half a day minimum. You can walk over Tower Bridge and take photos.

Trafalgar square - not a lot there but always huge crowds, just stop for a photo.

Leicester Square - again, nothing there really, except public toilets (look for the steps leading underground) and the great Half Price Tix booth that sells theatre tickets for that day only. It's the concrete hut in the middle of the square, there are lots of others but this is the official one.

Shakespeare's Globe Theatre - great for a look around and photos, you can do a tour inside or see a play there but it's mostly standing room only - like in the old days.

Vinopolis - would not bother.

Clink prison - also would not bother.

Hyde Park - enormous park, nice for a walk but not a must.

Westminister Abbey - interesting, an hour or two minimum.

Buckingham Palace -changing of guards - crowds of people so get a good spot early.

St Paul's Cathedral - beautiful inside with wonderful views from the top dome, if you feel like climbing LOTS of stairs.

Windsor Castle - love it and the town is nice too for lunch or shopping. Could spend a whole day or squeeze it into a half day.

Stonehenge - it's a circle of big rocks, not worth the trip in your short time.

Bath - nice but not with only 4 days.

Oxford - more interesting than Bath but skip it with only 4 days.

Thames River cruise - I love seeing London from the Thames, you could get the boat down to Greenwich then DLR/tube back. Lots to see in Greenwich, consider doing the guided walk there, including cruise, with www.walks.com we really enjoyed it. Takes half a day minimum.

Camden Lock Market - interesting for a poke around but not high on my list.

Parliament House - nice for a photo from one of the bridges over the Thames.

Covent Garden - always lots of people but just shops and restaurants these days, include it on a walk through central London.

Harrods - highly over rated.

Tate Modern Museum - not my style at all but a lot of people like it.

Imperial War museum - have not been but good if you have a special interest.

Regent Street - nice to walk down and window shop.

Hampton Court Palace - wonderful, with a lot to see, you could spend all day there or squeeze it into a half day if you start early.

Top Shop (this is only for me Sorry, but I HAVE to go! ) - the shops on Oxford Street get horribly busy with queues for change rooms, queues to pay, it's not very nice so my tip is go early in the day.

Gordon's Wine Bar - have not been but you can check reviews etc online.

Waggamamas - also have not been but popular.

Your list makes me exhausted but I know you don't mean to see all of these things, it's just a starting point. Definitely cut it right back with one main thing each day and a few smaller things you can fit in if you have time. You will also want to make time to sit and have a coffee or a beer, rest your feet and relax for 5 minutes.

I'm a big planner too so come back to us with more questions as the trip takes shape.

Kay

Top Shop (this is only for me Sorry, but I HAVE to go! )

tds0212 Id also recommend you go to Zara. Really love Zara!

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...travaganza.cfm

We just got back from a two week adventure--4 days in Paris and 10 days in London. Attached above is our trip report (still in progress) and we traveled with someone who had some mobility issues. The report is very very long though. I recommend extending the 4 days as much as you can since there is so much to see in London.

The highlight of my trip to London was without a doubt the National Gallery, but I don't see it on your list. I would also consider the British Museum, the Tower of London, Westminster, St. Paul's and Hampton Court (a day trip) to be priorities.

The Imperial War Museum is supposedly good, but you may not be able to fit it into your schedule. The Victoria & Albert Museum is also often recommended. We did not see the Science or Natural History Museums as we have some fabulous ones in our area and even our own week in London meant cutting many things.

I would definitely cut Vinopolis and the Clink Prison from the list without batting an eye. Also, with the caveat that I know nothing about your interests and preferences, I have heard many negative things about the Camden Lock Market atmosphere and suggest you consider the Borough Market instead.

I personally had no interest in Harrod's or the Tate Modern, but it's your call. I decided the London Eye was overpriced for what it is and that Buckingham was too crowded, opting instead for the changing of the Horse Guards.

While I might also suggest a few other wonderful museums, sites and day trips, I'm afraid you simply will not have time, so I hesitate to even name them. Similarly, I don't think you will be able to comfortably fit in any day trips to Stonehenge, Bath, Oxford, or even Windsor in your short time frame as there is so much to see in London. Personally, I would not take any day trips with only four full days in the city, but if you must have one, IMO that would be Hampton Court.

The remaining items on your list such as the parks and squares are, as others have pointed out, "walk-bys" as you move from one site to another. You can simply take routes that include them.

Basically, with only four days, you will have to use janisj's very accurate time allowances to cut & adjust your list down to the priorities.

Happy Planning!

With 4 days, I'd skip the outside of London sites..anothe reason to go back!

A few comments (I was there in May 09)

As mentioned, add something to your evenings. I went to a play at the Old Vic, bought tickets on internet.

One evening, also did a London Walk: Hamstead Pub Walk. Nice way to spend a couple of hours. Some history, some beer.

You mention jet lag. Here is what I do. About a week before I leave, I start going to bed 1 hr early, get up 1 hr earlier. Next night, 2 hrs...etc. On plane, no cofeee or alcohol, after meal, sleep or attempt to, no movies. Your body already feels it is time to go to bed. This works for me. When I do a short trip to Europe, I want to minimize time lost to feeling crappy...so going to bed early is a little sacrifice.

I stayed near British Museum (Bloomsbury). I had been before, so last time I did a London Walks tour of it. See highlites, can stay longer if want.

From Bloomsbury I walked to the City, St Paul's, Covent Garden, Trafalgar Sq.

For using Tube, I bought an Oyster card and loaded it with cash, based on employees estimated daily cost, for a 6/7day stay. It worked out well. Swipe and go. This was my first try at this. Others here will help you decide how to load it, e/g/ 3 day travelcard.

Changing of the Guard is an iffy choice in my books. Reason..to see anything you need to get there early and stand for hours. You could end up using a full morning to do this. If it is high on your list, then do it, Otherwise... Some recommend the Horses Guards, which also have a ceremony and it is much less attended. It is located near Westminster Abbey. I was doing another (!) London Walk and they timed it such that you were at Pall Mall when the soldiers marched by after the ceremony. Good pics.

I'd take my must sees, look at a map to see what is close together, then throw together a 4 day plan. People here will tweak it.

Look at what London Walks offers and consider blending them into your scehdule. For example. I walked from my hotel to St Paul's on first day, getting there near 2PM. There was a London Walks tour of St Paul's at that time, that finished when evensong was starting. So stayed for a bit of that.

The Changing of the Guard will take up more time than it's actually worth IMO. You'll need to get there very early to secure a place so you can see what's going on. Then you'll wait around for quite some time. I didn't do it until about my 12th trip to London. It's okay but only if one has the time. Personally I'd drop it.

janisj, Kay, sap and Michel_Paris have offered some good suggestions and advise. I'd use them as my guidelines. A book on London would help but as already stated not Rick Steves. Any of the others (Fodor's, Frommers, Time Out, Lonely Planet just to name a few) are considerably better.

I agree with much of KayF's assessment, above.

I agree also with the suggestion to skip Harrods. Instead, as a substitute that may fit in more with your itinerary, after hitting the large TopShop at Oxford Circus, go to Liberty, a unique "department store" and fun for at least a bit of browsing, and consider going to Selfridges or Fortnum & Mason if you are interested in their food halls.

Also, instead of the Imperial War Museum or clink, etc. consider the Cabinet War Rooms, surprisingly enjoyable, and a top London site, in my opinion.