Says a lot about the kind of tourists Amsterdam gets.>

And that would be a broad spectrum of tourists as typical tourist to Amsterdamned do trek thru the RLD - everyone I know who has went there has and they are rather 'good' tourists - the kind any city would like. No one goes to Amsterdamned to see RLD but good or bad it is a major tourist sight that locals yes cannot understand as often the case failing to be able to put themselves in shoes of foreign traveler. why do they go there - because it is world famous. The RLZ could be done away with in one fell swoop if local authorities wanted it to be done away with -is apparently happening but still a major tourist site.

Same as those who say Amsterdamned is to mobbed to enjoy - numerous reports here from recent tourists who say they liked Amsterdamned, including one current thread.

I certainly didn't, but then you don't really know me. It speaks volumes about you that you are defending those who do.

Most folks that go there do - that's why it is always called a top tourist place for folks to see. Love it or hate it.

It is a nit you won't quit picking at. At least three recent threads you've jumped in asking along the lines of "Fodorgarchs say A'dam is too crowded, what did you think?" If you had recent experience it would be one thing, but not having been there in ages why do you have this urge to divert every thread? Give it up already!

what's wrong with jettisoning Kent and starting in Cotswolds - seems a nice plan then - why not? Adding North Wales for Kent makes a nice loop.

there's been a study in Amsterdam to see if, indeed, the Amsterdam economy profits. Result: it doesn't, because most tourist revenue goes to large international corporations, and those, in NL, are almost exempt from paying tax (NL is a prime tax haven). Also, profits that might be there get absorbed in the cost of maintaining the city. The result is a net loss for Amsterdam.

The point is not whether tourists "like" Amsterdam. The point is whether the city centre is still liveable for the locals. It isn't. That's because locals (real locals) and people who come to Amsterdam to "live like a local" live very different lives. Real locals need green grocers, a local iron monger if they want to fix stuff, they need shops where they can buy the stuff that you need when you live your life somewhere. Visitors, even pretending to "live like a local" don't need all this, but need other facilities. With a city centre where about 10000 people live, that gets swamped by 18 MILLION visitors a year, whose interests are paramount, you think?

I think you are lost and on the wrong thread . . . maybe your MJ is a bit to strong -- or maybe its the paint?

The point is not whether tourists "like" Amsterdam.>

You just told someone on another thread to base in Utrecht and not Amsterdam because the city center was too mobbed to enjoy?

OK I think we have to be very careful praising the wonders of small villages that we all love, or the masses of tourists will find them. Go Away Rick Steves. love Switzerland.
Also I think it is the open mindedness (is that a word?) of the Dutch people, that we all admire, whether it is the RLD that is probably safer for those who use and are in the business than some other shady cities world wide, ............ or the fact that I was in a bar once in Amsterdam and a man brought a little pony into the bar while he had a beer. Also everyone knew the pony.....this actually happened. So, hate the tourists, love the Dutch.

What's your issue Pal? You know next to nothing about present day Amsterdam, let alone Utrecht. I think it's a real shame most tourists are so hung-up about Amsterdam, while there are so many gorgeous cities where you live more "like a local" because a proper urban fabric has not yet been unraveled.

NL is in the grips of a wave of very ugly, racist nationalism. A party that wants to "de-islamize" the Netherlands is now the second largest in parliament. NL has never been particularly open-minded. Amsterdam more, perhaps, but as a whole, NL Is a post colonialist, post-calvinist nation.

Well I am so hung up on Amsterdam because for 40 years two or three times a year I stayed there and walking about 20 miles a day found many neat places well away from city center - city center was always mobbed and yes from what you and others say is super mobbed now - but like Venice, Amsterdam is a unique place to IMO is worth visiting no matter how mobbed (same as Venice) worth seeing if only for a say or so.

But are not those remote areas in Amsterdam still nice areas and could make neat stays or is the whole city now infested by tourism - the Olympic Stadium area for example or west of Vondel Park - around Remembrandt Park? Etc. could not a stay in one of those areas be neat and a local neighborhood? And take trams into museums - which themselves are a reason for coming, etc.

think it's a real shame most tourists are so hung-up about Amsterdam, while there are so many gorgeous cities where you live more "like a local" because a proper urban fabric has not yet been unraveled.>

So nowhere to live like a local anywhere in Amsterdam? I accept your take if so.

Would you similarly tell folks to stay outside of Venice to experience more authentic city

outside of Florence "" "" """

Etc.

And since I have not been

Enough said but it does seem from trip reports here tha folks do somehow enjoy their Amsterdam experience, warts and all.

I will defer to yours and others expertise and refrain from commenting anymore ever - ever - ever (here some the snipes from predicted sources).

Cheers!

“but like Venice, Amsterdam is a unique place to IMO is worth visiting no matter how mobbed (same as Venice) worth seeing if only for a say or so”

Never a truer word spoken.

You just get up early to avoid the hoards. So simple.

not so simple caicos, getting up early will not make a difference. I was there less than a year ago, got up early and it was packed with tourists in the inner city. I wanted my son, who had never been there to see AMsterdam. While we did see the major museums, Rijks, Van Gogh, did a canal ride, Reistaffel dinner (spelling?), Resistance Museum, ship museum etc, and RLD, Ann Frank House, it is an amazing city, but I for one, will not go back there. The smaller villages are where the tranquility of the history seems to be for me.

“Get there early”

sorry I was thinking sunrise in The Exumas.

but there again following the over-hyping of “the pigs”, that little slice of heaven is being destroyed.

Over the past ten years, for the mobbed spots we have endured, in at sunrise, back to the apartment for lunch and a sleep then museums an hour before they close seems to work.

I was in Barcelona in June, up early and thought I'd stroll through the city while it was still cool and quiet. In the old town, there were lots of people sleeping in doorways.
Not homeless, by the looks of it, but young people there to party and save on hotel costs. The alleys reeked of urine. The shutters were all down and covered in grafiti. It was a mess.
This was around 7:30 am. It was not a nice experience.

A mess is an accurate description of Barcelona.

but young people there to party and save on hotel costs.>

Saw that once in Venice around train station - English soccer fans there for a match - sitting at night at outdoor cafe tables and same blokes sitting in same chairs in morning - others laying around in sleeping bags - don't think locals would tolerate that today.

It's a mess if you try to compete with cruise passengers etc., in places like La Rambla or the block around Sagreda Familia. We returned there for our umpteenth visit in September and October last year, and, upon our first arrival, found ourselves in the middle of 750,000 independence protestors, who clogged blocks and blocks of streets. We had luggage and an apartment to get to, and the protestors politely opened up a passageway for us that extended several blocks so we could get through. Nice, nice people. We walked mile after mile and found again a mostly peaceful and clean city. Fewer "homeless" people than we experience back home. We always seem to find something new and interesting and sometimes without crowds like the Old Hospital de la Santa Crue.