Our (Long-Winded) Italy Trip Report
 

Well, I got a lot of information from the board so I feel obligated to give back. I didn't include all the site seeing information, because we saw all the "top" sites and you know what they are as well we do. Just included the ones that met the most to us. Sorry for being so long-winded, but I think it's genetic: <BR> <BR>I've also included prices because everybody's definition of "moderate," "inexpensive," etc are different. <BR> <BR>We arrived at the Rome airport on a Friday night around 9 p.m. late September. Limoservicerome.com was highly recommended by this board and I had reserved a pick-up with them earlier in the month. Unfortunately, they were a no-show. I had previously sent a confirming e-mail (I figured it was especially important because of the WTC disaster the week before.) We received an e-mail back saying that they would be there and giving us a cell phone number to use in case of a problem. We tried calling the cell phone number when they failed to show up but received no answer. Buyer Beware. So we grabbed a cab instead. FYI: easily accessible ATM right outside of customs. <BR> <BR>We stayed at the Santa Chiara. It's not the most glamorous hotel in the world but the location can't be beat. Bathroom was actually quite large. And it's central location was very easy going on the feet. I had asked for a quiet room and it was. 390,000 lire a night for a double. Would stay there again in a heartbeat. <BR> <BR>Put us in the "we love Rome" category. I had been there 15 years ago and hated it, but this time around I found it charming and can't wait to go back. It was definitely our favorite city on the trip. The layers (literally) of the city and the bumping into ruins each time you turned down a street was amazing. We took the Scala Reale Roma Antica tour and were not as happy with it as we expected. We had been expecting a somewhat academic oriented tour with a focus on architecture. However, our tour guide was a classics graduate student and that was the focus, including poetry readings. We still earned a lot, particularly at the Forum, but I have to admit we were both disappointed. However, for those of you considering Scala Reale, I don't think you should be hesitant about signing up with them. I think this is the first criticism of them on this board that I've seen. Maybe it was us. Maybe it was an off-day for the guide. I don't know but please remember that this is just one opinion (and the only one like it that I've seen). <BR>

Part II <BR> <BR>We couldn't bear the long lines for the Vatican so our Vatican visit was limited to the Scavi tour and St. Peters. We enjoyed both. For us, the surprise was Nero's Golden House. We hadn't made advance reservations but were able to get on a late afternoon tour. It was an Italian speaking tour but we rented the English audio-tapes which worked quite well. (FYI-the first ten minutes of the audio-tape was supposed to be heard before the tour began. We spent a while playing catch-up.). Elaine would put it on her B-list, but for those interested in architecture and history, you might want to put it on the A-list. However, we did not see the Borghese so we can't really weigh the two. However, based on recent commentaries, I wished we had. <BR> <BR>By the way, before going to Italy by husband and I had purchased "Italian in 10 minutes a day" a paperback book we saw at Costco for about $11. We only did about half the book, but did find that what we had learned was quite helpful on our trip. The book comes with these little yellow stickers which you tack up all over the house e.g. the "lampada" sticker goes on the lamp. It was fun and all our friends thought it was a hoot when they came to our house. <BR> <BR>But I digress—back to Rome. We had not made any advance reservations for restaurants but ate at Al Pompiere in the Jewish Ghetto, Ditrambo (98,000 for two) and Grappolo D'Oro (80,000). I believe all appear in Fodors. Al Pompiere and Ditrambo were great. Grappolo was very mediocre. We had gelato at Blue Ice which was probably the best we had throughout Italy. <BR> <BR>Our last morning in Rome, we picked up our rental car (via Auto Europe) at the train station. The person at the Alamo desk gave us directions—you know the kind where you're listening and trying to follow them as hard as you can but you know that as you soon as you get out on the road, they will be absolutely useless—which they were. Nevertheless, in spite of the crazy driving in Rome, once you start driving the streets, there does seem to be some sort of logical flow. My husband did great. Never hesitated at an intersection without any traffic signals; just plowed right in like the Romans. He now claims that the reason driving in Rome was so easy for him is that he lived a past life in Rome. He'd like to think he was some great senator or emperor. However, I think he was probably one of the slaves who built the Coliseum. <BR>

Part III <BR> <BR>Anyway, we headed up to Siena via Orvieto (which we really enjoyed). Also stopped at Montepulciano. It became clear to us that we were not going to see as many hill towns as we had hoped during our three night stay in Siena. In any event, we ended up that evening at our hotel-Villa Scacciapensieri (420,000 a night). We really enjoyed this hotel. Our room was nice and large (and quiet) and had a great view of Tuscany. The hotel has quite a bit of old world charm. The elegance was a bit faded but I think that that made it more charming. The staff couldn't have been nicer. I had initially been concerned about staying 1.5 kilometers outside of the city walls, but it was no problem. Everything was quiet; easy parking, easy taxi and bus access into Siena, and easy access to the roads when you want to start hitting the hill towns. We had dinner that night at the Villa which was quite nice (but a bit formal). The next day we hit the roads again, stopping to see Monatalcino (where we bought our two bottles of Brunello to bring home) and Pienza. We also made a stop at the Abby at St. Anslemo to hear the Gregorian chanting. The acoustics were great and the experience was lovely. We had a great lunch right at restaurant right at the entrance of the Abby of some sort of peasant soup (with greens, white beans and bread) and insaladas mista. It should have been a cheap lunch but I think we were charged the tourist rate of $40 (no wine). But that soup sure was good. <BR> <BR>That night we had dinner at Cane e Gatto which has received rave reviews on this Board. The meal was superb and will be one of those memorable meals/dining experiences. Course, after course, kept coming. It is a meal at which you truly need to pace yourself and have some self-discipline as it was too much to eat for me. The women at the table next to us skipped some courses, which I should have done. Just no self-discipline. Total bill, including wine, was 310,000. <BR> <BR>Which leads me to my next digression—car sickness in Tuscany. If you get carsick, there's a good chance that it will happen to you in Tuscany with all the hills and curvy roads. I hadn't heard anyone mention it before, but I wish I had come prepared. I felt quite green on some of the roads. (Of course, overeating all day long probably didn't help either.) <BR> <BR>Anyway, we spent the next day in Siena which was delightful. We had reservations for Arnolfo's that night, but frankly we were still stuffed from our Cane e Gatto meal, so unfortunately we had to cancel. It was a dinner that I had been looking forward to. Instead, we had dinner at a little restaurant called Hosteria Il Carroccio. Great gnocchi. Table were close together with others which instead of being claustrophobic, allowed us to meet and talk with others (which is always enjoyable). <BR>

Part IV (told you it was long-winded) <BR> <BR>The following day we headed off to Florence. To my surprise, my husband suggested that we shop rather than hit some more hill towns. (He's definitely a keeper.) The concierge at the hotel felt we really had time for only one outlet and he suggested Prada rather than Gucci. Someone on the board previously gave a great description and said that it was like shopping on a bad day at Loehman's. However, that was not the case at all while we were there. The store itself was huge and extremely well maintained by the large number of helpful employees. Everything was folded and in order. When you arrive, you take a number and they let you in in by groups of 10. (However, that doesn't mean that only 10 people are in there at a time.) The merchandise seemed top notch and the prices were incredible. It was a fun and worthwhile diversion. <BR> <BR>We continued on to Florence and turned in the car at the airport. A cinch. (By the way, if you get a car, be sure to check out an AutoGrill. No AM/PM minimart, that's for sure.) Also, the Michelin Tuscany map worked just fine. <BR> <BR>We stayed at the Hotel Beacci Tornabouni (360,000 a night). It was a typical three star hotel. Somewhat small bedroom and bathroom but certainly adequate. (If I ever become ruler of the world, I will ban shower curtains.) Again, the room was quiet, as we had requested. The hotel is well situated over Tiffany's on Via Tornabouni, very near the River. While there was nothing wrong with the hotel, I would probably pick something else when I go back to Florence, just for the sake of trying something different. On my last trip, I loved Florence. For some reason, it just didn't hit me that way again on this trip. Florence was packed with American tourists (unlike in Rome and Siena). We slept through our Uffizi reservations and didn't need to use our Accademia reservations as we were able to walk right in at 4:30 p.m. Is it just me, or does anyone else get moved close to tears with Michelangelo's sculptures—whether the Prisoners, David or the Pieta at St. Peters? The Duomo was as magnificent as I remember but you could barely walk around the perimeter. The square and front steps were packed with tourists. Lots of mosquitoes which I hadn't expected in late September. Had dinner at Mamma Gina's. Mediocre (109,000). Also ate at Il Latini, which was very enjoyable and afforded a great opportunity to talk and meet with other people. If I were going back, I would have my restaurants planned and reservations made in advance for Florence. We had a tough time getting in to some of the restaurants we wanted. Tried Vivoli's but we thought Blue Ice in Rome was better. <BR> <BR>There's no way around it. Florence is a shopping town. Leather and fashion items are certainly the things to be purchased but my husband also enjoyed going into the sporting good stores to see the things you can't really get back in the U.S. (Diadora, more Fila etc.) We also found a fun housewares store called Viceversa on Via Ricasoli. It had Alessi and Alessi type items. Found some great gifts there. Beware of shopping hours. Some stores were closed Saturday and open Sunday afternoons. Some stores were open on Sunday while others were closed.

Part V <BR> <BR>We left on a Monday morning to take the train to Venice. We had tried to make seat reservations three days earlier but there weren't any available in first class on the ES. I've never been very good with the trains, and this time was no exception. We did manage to find two seats close to each other in 2nd class but it took some scurrying (which wasn't easy with all our luggage). A number of people had to stand. In retrospect, we should have made our reservations when we first got to Rome. I still don't think it was necessary to buy them here in the U.S. and pay all the surcharges, but I could certainly understand if someone didn't want to leave anything to chance. <BR> <BR>We stayed at Locanda San Barnaba in Dorsoduro. The place has recently been renovated which means good plumbing, good lighting, good air conditioning, and a place to put your things in the bathroom. (Superior room 320,000 a night). We were concerned about taking all our luggage on the vaporetto so we left one at the train station. (But beware—although we didn't need to for our own purposes of repacking, I felt obligated to unpack and repack the entire piece of luggage so I could honestly answer no to the airport question of has your luggage been in your possession the entire time since you've packed it.) <BR> <BR>By this time, our butts were dragging any my husband had caught a bad cold. We wandered aimlessly in the afternoon and had dinner at a location very close to the hotel—Antica Locanda Montin. The restaurant had received poor reviews on the "rants and raves" section on this site and they were right. Way overpriced for the quality and service of the meal. (150,000) Very crowed though. The next day we did some more wandering, particularly in the St. Marks area. At one point during the day, there was a high tide and they had to put planks in some areas. The water receded shortly. We also went on the Itinerari Segreti del Palazzo Ducale, which we enjoyed immensely. We went to Da Fiore for dinner that night (366,000) which was as good as everyone said it was. <BR> <BR>We only had two nights in Venice and I wish we had had more time and that my husband had felt better. It is a wonderful city with a fascinating history. More and more ground floors of buildings are being abandoned because of the rising waters (or sinking city) and it really leaves me with a feeling that someday, not in my lifetime, Venice will be a new Atlantis. It is a city that I just can't soak up enough of it. I'm afraid to blink because I might miss something. <BR> <BR>

Part VI (thanks for still indulging me) <BR> <BR>The next morning we left and took the train to Milan. For the first time in my life, I managed to get on the right train, the right car, the right class and the right seats! I felt so proud! <BR> <BR>In Milan, we stayed at the Hotel Spadari al Duomo (448,000 for an upgraded double). It was a fun hotel full of modern art. The staff was terrific. While we would have preferred to stay at something less expensive, we had a really tough time making reservations in the winter/spring because it was around fashion week. Nevertheless, I would happily stay at the Spadari again. <BR> <BR>We had very little time in Milan (really just one afternoon and evening). But I fall into the category of people who liked Milan (and would like to go back). It is definitely a big city but the architecture is still charming. When we got there, we had lunch at Peck's, which is next door to the hotel. I realize it is supposed to be famous but we weren't that impressed. We had reservations for the Last Supper, but we felt pressed to spend our time buying last minute gifts for friends and family. We had intended to bring some food items home as gifts, and believe it or not, the best place for those kind of gifts was an AutoGrill right by the Doumo (please don't tell any of our gift recipients). We had dinner at a local trattoria recommended by the hotel which was a good conclusion to our trip to Italy. The next morning, we took the Malpensa Express to the airport which was a cinch. <BR>

Part VII (this is it) <BR> <BR>Final thoughts: <BR> <BR>1. We like wine, but do not consider ourselves wine buffs. We generally ordered the house wine and it was great. So did many others at the restaurants. And we liked the prosecco as an aperitif also. (Brought a bottle of that home too.) <BR>2. We used the oversized zip lock bags for packing. Great idea!! <BR>3. We brought Frommers, Rick Steves and Mona Winks. I wish we had not left the Eyewitness Guide at home. <BR>4. People were the best dressed in Rome. Don't worry about what you wear. And yes, a lot of Italians wear jeans. <BR>5. I did a lot of walking before we left to get my feet and legs ready for the trip and I think it helped. We did a lot of walking (only one metro ride and no taxi rides while site seeing in Rome) and while my feet and legs still got tired, I felt pretty good. <BR>6. Watch how you eat. I generally eat a bagel for breakfast and a salad for lunch. And I try not to eat dinner too late. I over did it on the first part of the trip and paid for it—ate all the cheese and meats for breakfast, large lunches and huge dinners late at night. If you can train for this too before you go, try it. Otherwise, if you have a sensitive stomach, tread carefully. <BR>7. Do your homework and make the reservations for the tours/museums. I was glad we did. <BR>8. The VAT is a bit confusing. The shopkeepers will tell you that the VAT is 20% and most (ok, me and someone else I met) thought that the "true" price can be calculated by taking 20% off the total price. Nope. It is a 20% add-on to the original price, so the actual discount is closer to 12%. Also, it is not as easy as you may think to get your VAT refund. We spent 25 minutes looking for the Customs department at the Milan airport, and remember you need to get the Customs stamp before you check your luggage. And the Customs people did put some tourists through the ringer and made them open up their luggage to show the items they had purchased were with them and unused. Also, the rate for the VAT refund if put on your credit card, is slightly greater than if given to you in cash at the airport. <BR>9. For you readers out there, get Travelers Tales-Italy to take along with you for your reading material. <BR>10. It was really cheap to call home. Went to the Tabacchi and purchased a calling card that gave me 90 minutes to the U.S for 10,000ITL. It worked from payphones and hotel phones. <BR>11. We took some cheese home and declared it. No problem. Wouldn't try meat products though. <BR> <BR>Sorry for taking up so much of your time. Hopefully, there's some little bit of information buried in may ramblings that may be useful to someone, some day.

"J", thank you for the thoughtful trip report. I'm copying it and filing away for (hopefully) future use. <BR> <BR>Thanks!

Terrific report! We were in Rome and Tuscany (Montalcino & vicinity, including Siena) a little over a month ago and loved it. I agree with most of your impressions. We stayed at the Santa Chiara too! Our double was only 300,000 though. The location is the best thing about it.

ANOTHER wonderful trip report from Italy. Whew -- these are coming in fast & furious, I can barely keep my 'trip report file' updated. <BR> <BR>J, let's talk shopping. Shoes? Purses? Coats? Specifically what goodies did you find & how did prices compare to what you'd pay back home. Any other items that you bought & would recommend checking out that store? Ceramics? <BR> <BR>

algebra lesson: <BR>let final price w/VAT = V <BR>let orig price w/o VAT = X <BR> then V=1.2X <BR> OR V(1/1.2) = X <BR> OR V(.8333) = X <BR> <BR>thus real price is 83 pct of price with VAT (if VAT really =20pct), so diff. is 17 pct not 12 pct <BR> <BR>easier way: 100/120 = .833

Zzzzzz: <BR>Shopping was great. If I lived on the east coast, I could easily see getting a cheap flight over to Italy in the Winter just for the shopping. You could easily make up the airfare in savings. <BR> <BR>The main things we purchased are leather items: Shoes, purses, jackets, and some luggage. The prices could range like they do here depending on brand eg. Bruno Magli's are going to be more expensive than lesser brands. However, the top brands, while still pricey in Italy, are substantially less than they would be here. So if you were just dying for a Gucci purse and can't make it to the outlet, check out the retail Gucci store. Without having done any recent comparison shopping, my gut says that the prices there are at least a third cheaper. <BR> <BR>The really good deals are the decent quality non-brands. For example, I bought a purse at one store in Siena for $65. It is good quality leather and in a very nice style. It would easily sell for $275 plus in a nice department store here. If shopping is really your thing, you may want to check out the outlets. The only one we went to is the Prada outlet. (The Prada outlet also sells Miu Miu and Helmut Lang.) It was not on the beaten track but there were unbelieveable deals. I actually got a pair of Prada shoes at the outlet for 50,000 lire (less than $25). (They were on sale at the outlet.) Not everything was that cheap but considering how expensive Prada is here in the states (generally, outside my price range), it was like being a kid in the candy store. I also bought some clothing there. <BR> <BR>The only thing I regret is not buying more. I wish I had bought more shoes and a leather coat. I also would have liked to buy some of the clothing sold in Italy because the styling is just so wonderful. But I've never been one to spend my time in a dressing room on vacation. Although, if there was ever a place to do it, it would be in Italy. <BR> <BR>Also, don't forget that other European non-Italian goods are less expensive there than here. For example, I bought some French crystal there that was less expensive than in the states. <BR> <BR>I didn't spend much time looking at ceramics. Frankly, we have no room for it in the house. I might have been tempted to buy some Murano glass, but I thought the prices were high (especially, with no place to put it at home). We did buy some nice Murano wine stoppers as gifts. <BR> <BR>Does that help?

Diophanthus: Thanks for the algebra lesson but there's still something not quite right. In one place we shopped, the shopkeepers filled out the Global Tax Refund form. They showed us the amount of VAT to be deducted based on a chart that was included in the VAT book, and it was substantially less than the 17% you calculated (which was, of course, based on my information). Does anyone know how the VAT is calculated? Is it a different percentage based on the category of items? (We were told that it was not.)

J <BR>Thanks for the trip report. We did almost the identical trip two weeks earlier so it was fun to relive it through your posting. We were also amazed and surprised by Rome and underwhelmed by Florence. The crowds and traffic were too much. Found Venice a bit touristy and crowded also but loved everything about Rome and the Tuscan/Umbrian countryside particularly Todi and the area around Pienza/Montalcino. I wish we had know about the cheap phonecard calls back to the U.S. - great advice.

Thanks for the wonderful trip report!

Hi, J - Loved your trip report and hated to have it end! Hope you'll add to it as you recall more things to share with all of us. Personally, I really appreciate knowing the exact prices, because as you said - people have very different values where prices are concerned. What's "moderate" to you could turn out to be out-of-reach for me, and therefore not applicable in my travel planning. THANKS AGAIN! <BR>

J.... Thanks for such a thorough report! We leave tomorrow for Rome, Tuscany (Siena, San G., Cortona, etc.), & Venice. Can't wait! <BR> <BR>DFW 10/9/01

Thanks for the details, J. A pair of Prada shoes for $25 ??? It brings tears to my eyes. <BR> <BR>And shopping aside, sounds like it was a fabulous trip.

J: Great trip report! Yes you are right, you are the 1st to criticize "Scala Reale". I'll be the 2nd:). I believe that they have the best tours available and I would use them again, But!!! The guide on my Rome Antica tour (Colosseum, Palatine, Forum) spent far too much time at the Colosseum & Palatine. The Forum was basically a walk-thru because we had run out of time. The guide spent too much time talking on what was of interest too her. I loved my Vatican/St. Peter's tour with them. I had scheduled another tour with them that they cancelled by e-mail. But I had already left and would be in Rome a week later. They never told me when I arrived in Rome and they had sent my orientation pkg to my hotel plus I went on 2 tours with them. I wasted time getting to the meeting spot and waiting. So they had 3 chances to contact me that way or just call the hotel and leave a message. I'm sure most of their tourguides are excellent but some probably aren't. <BR>Regards, Walter <BR>

J, <BR>What a wonderful report. I was reliving our recent trip to Rome as I read it. My husband so wanted to bring back some cheese, but we were uncertain as how well it would keep. <BR>How did you prepare it to take with you?(i.e. special wrapping, in your suitcase, carryon, etc.). <BR>We want to make sure we can bring some home on our next trip. Thanks.