Our exciting Paris experience
 

Having returned recently from Europe, one of the biggest highlights was in France that I would like to share with you.<BR>My bother and sister-in-law accompanied us for the first part of our trip to Paris and we decided to visit the Sacre Coeur. After that visit we took the Metro back to our hotel which involved a transfer at the Pigalle station.<BR><BR>Upon boarding at Pigalle, two young females distracted my sister-in-law pretending ignorance while pointing to the stop diagram over the door. My wife immediately shouted, “MARY, SHE’S IN YOUR PURSE!”<BR><BR>The gal passed the money to her cohort who proceeded to stuff it into her low cut blouse.<BR>Mary, then reached into the gal’s blouse and retrieved her money—Just then, the warning horn sounded- regarding the door closures- and they immediately bolted off the train a fraction of a second before the doors closed. <BR><BR>When we reached our destination, Mary checked her nearly stolen money and discovered that she not only recovered her money, but there were also 5 - $20 bills and a 10 Euro note.<BR><BR>We used that money that evening for a fine meal in Paris and drank a toast to the poor person that lost the money knowing fully, had he/she known how the money was spent, would have joined us in that toast.<BR>

I enjoyed your story, Bill. The image of Mary reaching into the blouse of the thief to retrieve the money is too much! Glad she got the money back and that of other victims without getting hurt. Your hearts were in the right place with your toast, but it is unfortunate that things like this happen in the first place.

ttt

Good for your wife, Bill! I felt the same joy when I slapped the hand of a young woman from my friend's purse in an elevator in Monaco. It just feels good to defeat their con game.

Gee, I did that and I got my face slapped. OK, so she wasn't a pickpocket.

"We used that money that evening for a fine meal in Paris and drank a toast to the poor person that lost the money knowing fully, had he/she known how the money was spent, would have joined us in that toast."<BR><BR>Huh? Am I the only one here would wouldn't enjoy food or wine purchased with money stolen from another person?<BR><BR>

I'm wondering why Mary had cash so easily accessible in her purse, especially in a metro car???

Yes, that is true, other Nancy. I enjoyed the slap but I wouldn't have enjoyed using someone else's stolen money for dinner. Maybe I would have given it to a church, if she would have given it to a beggar, it might have been one of the thieving girl's relatives!

Don't know, Nancy... But personnally I would like my stolen money to be used for a fine meal by a more fortunate potential victim (and I would like it vastly more than thinking the money would be spent by the thief).<BR><BR>The only better use I can think of for stolen money in such a situation would be to give it to a charity.

I hope they reported this incident to police before they went and used someone else's money for dinner. I think donating the money would have been a nice idea. I would have felt better than to brag about the winfall on a forum.

It would have been just my luck that as I stuck my hand in to retrieve my money, someone would have arrested ME for robbing HER!<BR>And I too agree, if you got your money back, that is cause for satisfaction, but not to spend her stolen money on your meal. That is a little low.<BR>

Good show Bill. You wife is gutsy. Forget the guilt trip. It wasn't a low thing to do. I am sure the meal was enjoyable and obvioulsly you and yours saw nothing wrong with it. Morals are set by society and generally most folks would approve. <BR>Folks enjoy the story and do not get wrapped up in passing judgement on Bill who was sharing ans experience. If you want to give your gains from a robery to charity then so be it. <BR>I too join join Bill and his family in the toast.

There will always be people who will justify their actions like this. <BR>It does not mean that they are right or that others who disagree are wrong.<BR>Just that there are two kinds of people here - Bill and the Gypsies,<BR> and the others who would not buy dinner with stolen money.

Okay, enough with the self-righteousness, people. This poor guy was just relating a story and you jump all over him. How many of you would come across a 20 dollar bill on the sidewalk and drop it off at a police station, "Officer, I found this money, see that it finds its owner, please." The officer would laugh in your face.<BR>Or better yet, how many would take that same 20 dollar bill and drop it at the nearest charity? Chances are you'd think, "hey it's my lucky day," and your wallet would have $20 more than it did to begin the day.<BR>Cash has no legal title because there is no way to identify it to a particular person. It's freely transferable, finders keepers.<BR>It's not like he found a wallet with identifying information and used someone's credit cards or cash from a wallet. In that case, it would arguably be wrong. So leave him alone and get off of your soapboxes!

Right, I wouldnt give it to the police station, but charity. It would make me feel better about myself to know that the money ended up not with two thieves or with me but with a real charity. It would put a stop to the chain of dishonesty.

But, if you insist on giving it to charity, then why not just let the thieves keep it? I mean after all they are just trying to make a living and feed their poor little starving babies. The poor girls are poor and have no way to buy food so they are forced to steal. We should have pity on them. In fact, when we are in Paris we should walk around looking for them and make sure that we give each of them some money. That would be the Christian thing to do wouldn't it? Help those poor girls and feed their starving babies. God, I feel so sorry for them and you had to go and STEAL her money from between her boobs. How do you know that the money you took was not her weekly pay for cleaning the toilets at the Louvre? You should be ashamed of yourself picking on those poor girls.

Those Gypsies make money every day off of people, they are not poor. They do very well.<BR> If you FIND money, that is luck, you didn't grab it off of someone.<BR> This is just a case of honesty-and how people arrange it to suit themselves. And Mr/Mrs Givehimabreak-you are right there in the same class, defending someones spending stolen money on themselves and bragging about it.

Bill's wife UNKNOWINGLY grabbed additional money that was stolen by this thief. There's no difference had she found the money on a sidewalk. If Bill and his wife wanted to donate the extra money, yes, that's a nice gesture, but they chose not to. It's their personal decision. It easy to be on the sidelines and judge and criticize others' actions, but I'd be surprised if it had happened to those that are doing the criticizing, how many of them would donate this extra money.

Bill, I couldn't help chuckling at your story. However, bear in mind that there could have been a THIRD accomplice around - a 7 foot, 300 pound gorilla of a guy, in which case things might have turned out differently. <BR><BR>The responses to your post are most interesting. It's true that you made an assumption about the extra money as being stolen, when it might have actually constituted legitimately gotten gain on the part of Ms Low Neck Blouse. I know, seems unlikely, but it is a possibility. As an earlier poster said, cash has no legal title unless the last owner somehow managed to legally record the numbers somewhere (the way banks do in ransom cases.)<BR><BR>The responses suggesting you should have given the money to charity are most interesting. Charities are not (I hope) in the money laundering business, such that anything donated to them magically erases the nature by which the money was procured. Probably some people might FEEL better about donating the money to charity, but it doesn't change the facts of the case.<BR><BR>This was an accidental theft that occurred when the 'thief' was trying to act in her own defense. Had Mary seriously injured the thief in the process, things would have become more complicated. As it is, I don't see Mary and her friends becoming career felons as a result of this incident. Case dismissed.

I'll stick my neck out and use a real name, unlike the self-righteous, preachy but anonymous posters (when it comes to morality, they're all hat and no cattle). Bill, it would have been nice to donate the extra money to charity but I certainly don't look down on you for what you did. And kudos for getting your money back!<BR>A few years ago, before we moved to Europe, my husband interviewed for a job with a Belgian company. He paid for the flight and they reimbursed him later. The flight cost about 25000 Belgian francs (about $675 at the time) but when the company made the bank transfer, they deposited 25,000 DOLLARS into our account. Could we have used the money? Lord, yes! And the company's accountants were so bad (in every sense of the word), they most likely would never have noticed (more about that below). But good citizens that we were, we reported the mistake immediately and arranged for the prompt return of the $24,325. <BR>A few years later, we found out from people who had worked at the company (now bankrupt) that it was run by a bunch of thieves. The company was deducting taxes from employees it had never paid to the government, deducting life insurance payments months after secretly canceling the policies, deducting car insurance contributions but secretly not paying insurance on company cars (fortunately, nobody had an accident), all the while the CEO was taking home $20,000 a MONTH (chump change by Enron standards but this was a fairly small company).<BR>Over many a Belgian beer, we have wished we had a time machine and could have gone back to the day when we found the $25,000 in our bank account. On a do-over, would we really have kept it? Probably not. But maybe we should have and shared it out with the fleeced employees--a far better use of the money than returning it to the corrupt corporate management.<BR>At any rate, congratulations on catching those thieves in the act.

The use of the found money on a nice dinner could be seen as a reward! People offer rewards for lost items/money all the time. I am sure they would like to "reward" the person who "found" their "lost" money. Wouldn't you?

Usually "found money" is found in a bag or wallet where it can be traced to an owner. When one "finds" cash on the ground, it is usually untraceable and considered, "finders keepers". But "finding" money in someones blouse/shirt, is the same as taking it from them, so if you aren't a thief yourself, the least you can do if not return it is to give it to someone more deserving than yourself. Unless that is the only way you can afford to eat dinner.

Hi Bill,<BR> I just got off the phone with my sister who was pick-pockted in Paris in July (they just got some cash, no cards or id); told her about your posting and the several disapproving follow-up postings. She says "aw, the poor little thief got her money stolen, waah, waah, waah" and said she'd gladly buy the "accidental thiefs" of the Thief dinner any time. Thanks for this heartwarming anecdote and ignore the blusterers.

Be a cold day in hell before I stick my hands down in between some filthy Gypsie's titties...lordy what one might find in there besides money - perhaps some cash but more likely a load of cooties.

<BR><BR>SStone, you suggest that the least they could do is give the money to someone more deserving than themselves. However, this is still just your own emotional reaction - fair enough in your case, not in Bill/Mary's. A charity might be a more righteous recipient of the money, but they aren't a more rightful recipient. (If I take your purse in which is your mortgage payment in your wallet/purse, I am not absolved from wrongdoing because I decided to give it to a more 'deserving' party than the bank.)<BR><BR>As it is, in this case there is no identification linking the money to a specific party. Yes, one could assume that the money was Ms Low Neck's. However, restitution was impossible, given Ms Low Neck's abrupt departure from the scene.<BR><BR>Given this, Bill and Mary might not be entitled to the money by merit, but lacking any identification, and any means of restoring the money to the presumed owner, they were entitled by default. What they do with it - give it to a charity, spend it on a dinner, or throw it out the window - is up to them.

They should have donated the money to the Paris chapter of the benevolent pickpockets society of France. Now that's christian!!

This story reminds me of an episode I witnessed at the Milano Centrale station several years ago. My 17-year-old daughter and I had met up with my college age daughter on her Spring break from Cambridge (we are Americans) and we were headed to Venice. We were seated in one of those 1st class enclosed compartments with a narrow aisle down the side. <BR><BR>Right in front of our compartment there are a college-ish girl followed by a woman I'll assume is her mother, followed by a scruffy looking guy who has pretty much got his hand all the way into her purse. Just as I was about to say something, a hand reaches up from behind him (into the frame, so to speak) and grabs the guys wrist and then this other woman (for now, unseen) says in English "This little ***hole has his hand in your purse, I'm goiing to have to hurt him." Now he's sorta struggling to get free and also to push back by the woman in the rear but she has him blocked. [All 3 of us are now up at the window/door gaping at the struggle.} Both of these women are about 5'10" extremely fit looking so no surprise when 1st woman turns around, crushes his fingers in her hand, flings his hand from her bag, and pushes him to the backup woman who spins him around (he's about 5'3) marches him past the next compartment to the platform and half-throw, half-kicks him down the trains steps to the concrete where he lands with an audible ka-thunk. Now the trains is leaving the station and she yells to the startled people standing on the ground "ladro, ladro!" My daughters and I still joke about this sometimes when we need a Milano SuperWoman.<BR><BR>I suppose some of you will think these women were brutish to the poor little pickpocket, and further criticize me for being amused and expressing great admiration for these Amazons that struck back for all the people these career criminals have victimized...but I don't care and I loved Bill's story!

Good for you! I can't believe the other money wasn't stolen too -- how many people walk around with their money stuck in their blouses??? So, what did you have for dinner?

Ah, Memories, yes, but what if the man was trying to get his money back from the first woman who had just pick-pocketed him! It could have been a scam with the women blocking his passage in the corridor.<BR>If someone would have been on the bus with Bill and his wife and looked up just in time to see Mrs. Bill reach into the girl's blouse she would have blamed her.<BR>Funny story anyway, both of you!

Funny story would have been if a man had grabbed Bill and stuck his hand in Bills pants to retrieve the money.

Liars,<BR><BR>Actually, the thieves are indeed likely to be poors (I'm refering to the gypsies, here, not to pickpockets in general). I understand (from my readings..I'm not a police officer, mind you) that there are mainly two cases :<BR><BR>-The young thief is part of a gang. He works for some adult or group of adults he's not necessarily related with (They would "import" kids from their country of origin to this purpose). he's unlikely to to be a loved, well fed and well taken care of.<BR><BR>-The young thief is a member of one of these families which are living in these slums which appeared around Paris. Then, he/she's amongst his/her folks, but definitely poor.<BR><BR>I would note that these thieves are actually illegal immigrants. They used to come mostly from Yugoslavia, now they come mostly from Romania. The french government has recently displayed a strong will to be rid of them in negociations with the Romanian government (in my opinion it's an easy PR trick to look like they're doing something about criminality and illegal immigration, but it's another topic). You're very unlikely to notice a french gypsie in Paris.<BR><BR>Finally, I have to add that these illegal immigrants are treated like shit in Romania (they represent a large chunk of the population there)and are victims of a lot of discrimination, abuse and racism in this country. So, I can't blame them for trying to immigrate illegally here (the fact that some of them become thieves notwhistanding).

By the way, I was watching some days ago on TV a footage showing how one these kids was operating (hidden camera).<BR><BR>The victim was on a Paris bridge, taking a picture, with several people around looking at the Seine (or at something else). The kid would place himself just behind the man, on his right, with a Paris map in his hands. He would keep the map in his left hand, while the right one was exploring the man's pocket/bag, hidden by the map, so nobody around would notice.<BR><BR>The victim noticed something, however, turned and looked around him. The boy immediatly withdrew his hand, and held the map with both hands, apparently innocently studying it. The tourist looked around suspiciously but didn't even look at the little boy just beside him.

In Moscow, while I was standing in front of my hotel, I put my hand into my pocket for my hankerchief. My hand touched another hand in my pocket, imagine my surprise. <BR>It was a little boy of about four who looked up at me so innocently, that I wanted to pat him on the head and say here is some money. <BR>The shame falls on the parents who are teaching these kids to live a life of crime at such young ages. What future does that boy or his sister, who was about six, have? His "mother" was sitting a little ways off and called her kids and put them on her lap, all I could do was shake my head in disgust at her.

I am absoluteley doumbfounded by the negative responses to my post. Never again!!

Oh, don't take it personally, Bill. For every post here, negative or positive, many other people read your thread and didn't respond.<BR>Don't let a few malcontents stop you from posting. I enjoyed your experience, and I am sure many others did too.

Bill, I loved your story, and I'm sure many others on this forum did too! I am amazed at all the negative people who come on here - so many pompous a**es!

"Never again" what, Bill? Never again will you spend money that was not yours? or brag about it on the web?<BR><BR>And if there were a few more of what you bunch call "pompous asses" around, maybe the world would be more honest.

Bill, spouse and Mary: Bravo! If that were my stolen money that Mary retrieved, I would hope you would spend it wisely (on a good meal), and the fact that you toasted me would be icing on the cake.

Bill, as someone who's seem thiefs in action, (and even slapped one on our last trip to Paris), I think you did nothing wrong. Thieves get no sympathy from me.