adrienne

I was just reading a thread where someone described Lisbon as “beautiful.” I’m not looking for an argument; I’m looking for insights.

I spent 4 days in Lisbon last fall and thought it was probably the ugliest European city I’ve seen (although Belem was a pretty area). I’ve read other threads where people thought Lisbon was great, charming, pretty/beautiful, etc.

What did I miss? My perception of Lisbon may be colored by the many things that went wrong there. Nothing bad happened, only the usual things that go wrong when you travel and are in an unfamiliar place but there were quite a few disappointments. I still haven’t been able to write the Lisbon portion of my trip report as I want to write it objectively.

Now that the trip is almost 6 months behind me, with your help I’d like to review/reassess my opinion of Lisbon. What do you love/like about Lisbon? Is there anything you dislike? Why is it beautiful?

Sher

Hi adrienne. I read your trip report and enjoyed it very much. We are really budget travelers and I think you did a very good job of reaching out to people who love to travel and you were able to show them that you can do it.

We have been to Lisbon three times and could easily return again. We loved the closeness to the sea, the unique layout of the neighborhoods and the differences in them in just a few steps. The trams, the elevadors that whisk you up, Fado.

We think the food is wonderful and the people warm and welcoming. We think that the historical buildings and museums reach out to you on a personal level and not a dressed up for the tourist kind of way.

I know that you were disappointed in your stay there although I did not get the impression that you were disappointed in Portugal.

I think that we love it there because sometimes a place just reaches out to you and this is what happened to us. And this city did not to you. People like Porto and Evora and I did not.

I know I have not done a very good job of telling you why I liked this city. Because sometimes it is just a feeling. And of course, most of all, you are entitled to your opinion.

Pegontheroad

I haven't been for years, but when I was there, I thought it was quite shabby. I thought the economy probably wasn't especially good and that made it difficult to keep it in good condition.

That was at least 20 years ago, and perhaps that's different now.

HappyTrvlr

I think the shabbiness is left over from their years of poverty under a dictator. They are beginning to restore their historic buildings..Rossio Train station.. the Medical School, for example. I think the way I used "beautiful" is exactly as Sher stated. The people are so welcoming, the old quarters, the waterfront,it's history, the food and music. It felt real to us and we loved the experience during our nine days there. We will return there again. It is a diamond in the rough. Portugal's entrance into the EU has given them new transportation, and highways. Every day a local resdient did something nice for us, unexpected and appreciated.

julies

This is interesting for me to read because Lisbon and Portugal are on our "want to see" list. However, we had friends visit a year or so ago and their reactions were exactly the same as those of the OP. They thought it was really dirty and didn't particularly care for the place. (On the same trip they also visited Morocco and weren't thrilled with that either because it was dirty and noisy.) We wrote their reactions off as those of people who only want the cleaned up, charming places that call to all tourists. In fact, we thought to ourselves that we'd probably really like the Lisbon. We attributed this to the fact that while we and and our friends have travelled extensively abroad, we are much more the type to get off the typical tourist trails and visit places that are a bit more cutting edge, less mainstream and sometimes more adventure type travel. And, we've visited quite a few countries in Central/Eastern Europe that were formerly in the Communist bloc so their infrastructure, for the most part, certainly isn't up to that of Western Europe. I don't know. Maybe people's perceptions of Lisbon depend on what their other experiences prior to their visit.

lreynold1

Hi, Adrienne,

Thanks for starting this thread because I´m one of those "Lisbon lovers" and I have often thought about what it is that puts me into that category. Like Sher, I think it has a lot to do with the people, the sense of feeling at ease, the food, the music, etc. I remembered answering a similar question a while back and found my post, which may seem silly to you, but I´ll put it here in case it helps explain:

"I have thought a lot about what it is that makes it so special to me, and without wanting to romanticize or trivialize, I think it has to do with the fact that the city is not too "prettified" or gentrified. It's still a real city where lots of real people live. I walk around a lot when I'm in Lisbon and there's one image in my mind that really represents what I'm talking about. It was on the Rua Benfica, a middle class neighborhood, nothing particularly special about it. I went past a very tiny butcher shop. Sitting on the window ledge outside was the grandfather, resting on his cane. In the doorway was the butcher/son, with his bloody apron. He was kicking an empty juice box back and forth in a makeshift soccer game on the sidewalk with his 4-5 year old son (of course I'm imagining these relationships, but that was what it looked like to me). There was just something about that scene that really stuck with me."

Now, when I say "it´s not too prettified", others may say "it´s shabby." When I see a "real city" others may see lots of poorer people and gritty falling down neighborhoods. I am not a sociologist, so I can´t say whether I´ve really understood the essence of Portuguese society, but I see it as a society where personal relationships and friendships and caring for each other is the real backbone. Like others, I have been continually amazed by the kindness and graciousness of the Portuguese people.

It's interesting how we experience things so differenly -- it´s funny, Sher said she didn´t like Evora or Porto. I LOVE Porto and share her opinion on Evora but I would be hard pressed to really identify why. I don´t suppose we should be surprised by the fact that we all have such different opinions, since after all I live in a small town in east central Illinois that I love and most people would say ugh how ugly and boring!

Looking forward to hearing more from others on this, I think it´s a really interesting topic. Laurie

adrienne

These great responses are making me think more about Lisbon. Shabby is a good word to describe what I saw and I was surprised by it. Perhaps it was the expectation that Lisbon would be more like other European capital cities and the reality is that the city was not like others. It's probably better to travel without particular expectations.

Sher – you are correct – it is a feeling that beckons to certain places or cities. I get that feeling in Paris that I do not get in any other large city. I may like and enjoy London, Rome, New York City but don’t get the same feeling as I do in Paris.

I didn’t and still do not see the differences in Lisbon neighborhoods that you mention. I’ll have to give this more thought. Sometimes it takes more than one visit to warm to a place. I do remember now that I hated Rome the first time I was there because of the lack of travel experience at the time and, again, a series of misadventures. I now think Rome is a great place and have been there three more times.

I love your perception that the “buildings are not dressed up for the tourist.” That’s quite an understatement as I think Lisbon needs a complete lift from the toe up – LOL. But I guess that’s its charm – that it is a place where people live and work, an “accept me as I am” philosophy.

adrienne

I think part of my surprise with Lisbon’s appearance is that I visited Lisbon last on my trip and I had been to some very pretty towns during the first 10 days. Each town was different but I thought most of them were pretty; some were gorgeous like Marvao and Castello de Vide and Sintra. I went to Lisbon directly following my favorite town, Sintra, so the surprise was greater.

Laurie – I love your description of the grandfather and grandson. I remember seeing elderly women sitting in the shade on their doorsteps in Castello de Vide and, in the same town, the woman who was washing her laundry on an old-fashioned scrub board and sink outside her front door. These are images of a place where people live rather than a town frequented mostly by tourists and they are endearing images; ones that make you feel part of the landscape rather than solely an observer.

Sher

adrienne. I try to qualify my impressions of Porto whenever I state that I wasn't thrilled with this city but I did not this time.
We visited only one very rainy day. So maybe I didn't give it a chance.
I find that I have a fault when I see cities for the first time. I guess my excitement gets to me. I don't really notice the grafitti that so many people mention or the dog poop that seems to litter the sidewalks. I did think that it was a shame in Bejing that so many ancient sights seemed to be so dusty like no one ever paid any attention to them.

As you said some things reach out to you others do not. I do think that maybe a change in your accomodations in Lisbon might have made your stay more pleasant. I think I remember you were not thrilled with the setting. On our first trip we had picked an apartment that did not thrill us before we moved and I think that could have spoiled the stay somewhat. Who knows.
Thanks for the post. As Laurie says it is very interesting to get a new outlook when something just perplexes us.
Sherry

alan64

I thought it was a bit shabby when I was there in the very late 1990's, especially after coming from Madrid. There was a lot of construction going on so I imagine it's been spiffed up some, but clearly not too much if it's still being called shabby.

That being said, over the years when I look back on the sights I saw, the food I ate, the music, the people...I look back with great appreciation and I can't wait to return. I also loved day trips to Belém and Sintra, and a side trip to Óbidos. I'd give a thumbs up to Lisbon, but a warning to to expect the Champs-Élysées.

alan64

Sorry, I meant "...NOT to expect the Champs-Élysées."

Nikki

I have been to Lisbon three times now. I am trying to figure out how to answer this question. I found Lisbon both stimulating and relaxing. It has a very "old Europe" feel and still has neighborhoods with charming, tiny shops and scenes such as Laurie describes above.

It feels very comfortable to me in Lisbon. The people I have encountered are friendly and unpretentious. I didn't feel it was shabby, but I lived in New York in the fifties, so what do I know.

The very steep landscape is reminiscent of San Francisco, and there is even a bridge that could be mistaken for the Golden Gate. The city is somewhat divided from its waterfront, but it appears to me that there is construction aimed at opening it up more, and if that is accomplished it should be extremely attractive.

There is wonderful fresh seafood and the cuisine in general is different enough from things I usually have to be both interesting and delicious.

There is intriguing and accessible local culture in the form of fado sung in small rooms where the patrons get up and sing after dinner. There is a cafe culture where people eat al fresco and gather to visit and drink and watch the world go by.

I have a picture of my husband sitting outdoors on the pedestrian street Rua das Portas de Santo Antao, with a big glass of beer and a big plate of tiny snails, to be eaten with toothpicks. As we sat there we watched the optician across the street hanging out of his second story window to get some air, next to his sign which said he has been in business 54 years. We were fascinated by the shop next to our restaurant selling all types of hooks, hangers, and hinges, arranged along walls consisting of hundreds of small wooden drawers. We bought a brass door knocker there.

The sidewalks made of intricate mosaic patterns, the arcaded plazas, the jewelry shops on the street named for the goldsmiths who have always worked there, all call me back. I hope I get to return.

txtree

What an interesting topic. I visited Lisbon 10 years ago and had a reaction similar to Adrienne's. I didn't love the city and left with the feeling that I somehow missed the part that everyone else adores. I used to epxlain that as I walked around, I had the feeling that a beautiful, interesting, compelling Lisbon was behind some old wooden door - if only I had a guide to show me the secret.

Now, many years later, I'm going back (on a work junket) and I've been wondering how I can find a Lisbon to love. These posts are helpful food for thought. So thanks.

thursdaysd

Well, my trip report was titled "Loving Lisbon", and I started the Lisbon part by writing: "How can you not like a city that makes you smile? And why did Lisbon make me smile, while Madrid was a place I was eager to leave? I'm not sure, but I found plenty of buildings to admire, museums to browse, and food to savor. Public transport helped - metro, bus, tram, funicular, even an elevator!"

I didn't notice that Lisbon was particularly shabby, aside perhaps from the Alfama region, but I grew up in England right after WWII, so my standards may be different. In fact, I find places that are too clean and tidy (I'm thinking Singapore in particular) feel fake and Disneyfied. I've also spent time in Asia, including India, so again, my standards may be different...

awong

We've just returned from 6 days in Lisbon and it was a wonderful city to visit. March was a good time to be there as there were no line-ups at any of the attractions and getting into the restaurants, some of which are tiny, was not a problem. We spent the entire time in the city although people I spoke with at various locations had also done day trips, mostly to Sintra. Lisbon kept me interested every day. My husband was able to explore with me for 2.25 days and then he was working so I spent 3 days on my own, covering as much of the city as I could.

We arrived late Saturday afternoon and went to the Bairro Alto area and got our bearings there first. Many of the restaurants are tiny, the menus are soiled, the tables uneven and too many in a room, but every place we ate at was cozy, the food delicious, and the prices -- cheap. Lisbon, like many larger, southern European cities, tends to be dusty, with litter on the ground, and houses that are not painted like postcards. My first trip to Nice, 20 years ago, left me disappointed as I expected the Med coast to all look like Monaco. It doesn't.

We took tram 28, as the guide books suggest and for the first time in my life someone tried to pick my pocket. And coming from orderly Holland, to see the people riding on the outside of the tram, with their fingers wrapped around the folding doors was a bit of a surprise but a sight that reoccurred for the entire 6 days we were there. The average income in Portugal is one of the lowest in the EU yet walking through the area of Avd Liberdade where Prada, Longchamps, Doce & Gabanna, Tods, Burberry, Armani, etc were located, the people on the streets were VERY well turned out.

We watched the sun set from the Miradouro de Sa Pedro de Alcantara and there were masses of 20 somethings, dressed as students do everywhere, laughing and hugging - enjoying life. Later in the week at a small Pastelleria up over the hill, I sat watching beautifully dressed and coiffed older (let's be clear, they were elderly) ladies and gentlemen gathering for coffee. The entire place, except for me, seemed to know each other - like a neighbourhood pub, but with coffee and sweet treats.

I'm glad that we visited the UNESCO sites of Belem, using the #15 tram. Walking the waterfront of the Tagus to the Monument to the Discoveries, there were tourists, families, people running along the parcour path, cyclists, etc. and it didn't feel like a tourist destination.

Praca do Comercio (sadly under construction at present) is the site of executions during the Inqusition and will be where the Pope celebrates Mass when he arrives later this year. That's history that Canada (my home country) doesn't have and at that point I wasn't seeing the dirty streets but imagining the past and future at the same place.

The Oriente station of Parque das Nacoes, the waterfront location of Expo 1998 is a fabulous building - clean, bright, and a nod to 1920s architecture. The aquarium, which is the 2nd largest in the world is top notch. The shopping center - the same as a million others. The metro whisked us back to the city.

The Alfama survived the 1755 earthquake and fire and it feels like Morocco, a reflection of the Moorish roots? Steep stairs and narrow streets, boarded-up house, homeless people making a place on a stair landing, reconstruction, decaying doorways, - all lent the area a kind of charm, shabby but genuine. With stops at the Se Cathedral, Miradouro de Santa Luzia, and finally Castelo de Sao Jorge at the end, Alfama was a unique part of the city.

The Baixa, Chicado, Rossio areas were lively with women arm-in-arm, groups of school children, shopping, e.50 coffees, wide-open squares, flower stands, small restaurants, fine buildings, and a complete contrast to Alfama on the hill. Café Brasileira in the Chiado, is delightful and oozes charm, sophistication, comfort; recalling days of the past. Having a coffee on the terrace at 22:00 as street buskers perform, is a pretty good way to end the evening of our last day in Lisbon.

The Museu Calouste Gulbenkian is outside of the main area of the city and it is fantastic - Rembrandt, Ruebens, Manet, Monet, Frans Hall, Sargeant, Turner - - - and then a 15 minute walk to the designer shopping center El Cortes Ingles. Another 15 minute walk to Alameda Cardeal Cerejeira in Edward VII Park where the view down the boulevard and out to sea was fantastic, and then another 15 minute walk to Aqueduto Aguas Livres – which is enormously impressive but in a neighbourhood that was run-down and lacking in the charm of Alfama.

The Lisbon metro system is very good - a e3.70 Metro/Carris pass gives 24 hour access. Single trip tickets run between e.0.80 and e1.60 so Lisbon gets top marks for ease of movement through and around the city. On just one day I was able to use the bus, tram, elevator, bus, funicular, and metro - just hop on and get off to explore. It's such a walkable city that once I got my bearings, I didn't feel the need to consult a map and that freed me to people watch, wander, and discover.

It amazes me that Lisbon flies underneath so many people's radar. Spain and France receive far more visitors, but I would rank Lisbon very highly on a list of cities to see in Europe. The litter I don't like and I wonder why it has to be there, but the dust coating the buildings, I can accept. Lisbon has a small city feel to it and I felt entirely comfortable there. Mind you, the sun shone every day, the sky was an incredible shade of blue, and the temperatures hit 20C - an enormous contrast to the grey, damp, days that I had been seeing for what seemed like ages in The Netherlands

WillTravel

Have any of the people with Lisbon experience, whether positive or negative, visited some or all of Mexico City, Buenos Aires, and Bucharest? How would you compare Lisbon to those?

adrienne

thursdaysd - I thought Alfama was one of the nicer areas. The rest of Lisbon looked much shabbier to me.

BTW - instead of taking the Santa Justa elevador you can take the escalator inside FNAC for free and there is no line to use it!

awong - I know I went to a different Lisbon than you!

Oriente station is nothing but white concrete so I guess it can't be anything other than bright. Did you explore the lower level with the shops and restaurants? Dark, dark, dark.

I didn't take Tram 28 as it was always packed with people. I walked instead of getting on a packed tram.

Lisbon dusty? Not compared to the rest of Portugal and I didn't see any litter and I was all over the city, particularly the days I was lost. I thought it was a very clean city.

It did amaze me that Praca do Comercio was hidden behind a long red board with "Afrika" painted on it over and over. How was one to know that behind the Afrika sign was the landmark she was looking for? That rather flummoxed me as I was trying to get my bearings on the map.

Miradouro de Santa Luzia was probably my favorite part of Lisbon.

I do wish someone would remove the brass plaque next to the cathedral door with the erroneous opening times. Better to have no sign than one that is incorrect. I was not the only person sitting on the steps waiting for the cathedral to open when it was clearly stated on the plaque that it was open all day. Laurie - you're often in Lisbon - can you get this taken care of?

You were lucky it was 20 degrees. Lisbon at 30 degrees gives one a different perspective.

lobo_mau

I very much agree with the OP. Lisbon needs a face lift in some areas to better welcome visitors.
If I may add some comments, I'd like to point Awong's wise comments. Alfama is the true heart of Lisbon, but you can't compare it with the Parisian boulevards, a fair comparison must be made with the Madinas in North Africa.
As a bottom line I'd say that Lisbon is a place to either ate or love. You can't see any reality with the eyes of another person. If your first impression was negative, maybe you have to accept the fact that it's very unlikely that your opinion changes in later visits.

lobo_mau

"hate or love". An afterpost edit function would be very much appreciated...

lobo_mau

Oriente station is a stucture of steel and glass, and a land mark of Lisbon since 1998.

http://www.golisbon.com/sight-seeing...e-station.html

PS: Opinions are free and this is my last post on this subject.