Oh dear! The "Whinging Poms" have to relinquish the title. After all these years, Popov has wrested it from you.

>>I was expecting *good* museums and real history, not tourist trap crap. If I just want a real place where people live and work, I could have gone to Cleveland. And they have better museums, too.<<

Are they better than the British Museum too, as you thought that was 'meh'?

Am chuckling along with these trip reports...

"Real history" is what you saw and didn't like. You weren't impressed by the 13th century Minster. You weren't impressed by the city centre shops where you can see architecture from the Medieval Shambles through sites rebuilt after WW2 bombing to 21st century plate glass shopfronts. You weren't impressed by the social history of York presented at the Castle Museum. You weren't impressed by the Roman city walls (many of those in Cleveland?). How much more "real history" can you get? What a shame you didn't spend your money at the Jorvik centre.

To be fair the Jorvik centre is like a pleasant Disney version of vikings. So pretty "meh" to me too

>>real history, not tourist trap crap. If I just want a real place where people live and work, I could have gone to Cleveland.<<

Okay, this is what I don't get. You don't want tourist crap but you don't want a real place where people live and work. So what do you want, to step back in time to the 13th century, free of the modern world and any other tourists?

Sorry we haven't turned one of our cities into a history theme park for you!

OOOOh, some people re soooooo sensitive.

"Sorry we haven't turned one of our cities into a history theme park for you!"

Yeah, you did. And it was just a really poor one.

"The train museum is about 5 mins walk from the train station in York...o a return trip to the train station to get back to town would have been 10 mins tops."

I'm going to guess that the day you were there it wasn't 45 degrees, the wind blowing a gale and raining.

" You weren't impressed by the city centre shops where you can see architecture from the Medieval Shambles through sites rebuilt after WW2 bombing to 21st century plate glass shopfronts."

So they were recreations, selling tourist junk. Wow. Never saw that before.

"You weren't impressed by the social history of York presented at the Castle Museum."

It was a very amateurish excuse for a museum and the social history of York was boring. Who cares?

"You weren't impressed by the Roman city walls (many of those in Cleveland?)."

As far as wall are concerned, I've seen exactly the same walls in Luca, Avila and half a dozen other cities. A wall is a wall. Seen one, seen 'em all.

Cleveland has the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame, which makes it a clear winner over York right there. And Cleveland's famous burning river is far more of interesting than anything in York.

"How much more "real history" can you get? What a shame you didn't spend your money at the Jorvik centre"

It couldn't be worse than the Castle Museum.

"Yes, I do get fed up with the 'Bettys is a tourist trap' line that I see on here."

That's because it is a tourist trap. It York in a nutshell. You take an ordinary place and continue to say over and over that it is special and pretty soon everyone believes you. There isn't one thing special or noteworthy about the place and certainly nothing to make it worth standing in line for. Just like there is nothing in York aside from the minster. And it is hardly worth 4 hours of train travel from London.

I was a bit like that when I first moved to York - but must admit I was also rather thick in those distant days - it was only later and when I began to mature that I really started to appreciate the place. You would have to be pretty blinkered not to notice that there is more to York than York Minster,

In the future, why don't you skip Europe and go to Vegas and Epcot. Both places are closer to Cleveland and may be more enjoyable for you than the real deal across the pond. Just a thought.....

Don't bother with this thread, the OP is a "wind up merchant".

It's easy to see why the OP chose York over London and Cambridge. He feared if he visited the university cities he might inadvertently learn something.

The first thing he would have learned is that trying to visit both cities on the same day would involve about 6 hours on the train.

If the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is what rocks your boat, then perhaps you'd have been better off going to one of the open-air music festivals held in the UK. Mind you, that would have meant getting out in the open air, regardless of the weather. I believe your famous Burning River is a 2-day open-air festival - sounds pretty similar.