GAC

Today's Corriere della Sera lists the 36 Italian Provinces having a population of less than 300,000 which risk being abolished if the Government's fiscal savings plan proposed today is approved by Parliament:

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/P...province.shtml

I note that the Italian Primier had previously suggested that all 100+ provinces should be abolished and their administrative duties supplanted by the 20 Italian Regions but, not surprisingly, nothing became of this initiative.

Last year, a proposal to abolish some of the smaller provinces was put forward, but never got anywhere.

To the contrary, the number of provinces in Italy has actually increased since 1974 (there are currently 109, plus the Valle d'Aosta). In 1970, there were 94, and in 1861 there were only 59:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_italiane

Some interesting observations, if this proposal becomes law:

1. Sardinia will lose 6 of its 8 provinces: only Cagliari and Sassari will remain

2. Tuscany will lose 5 of its 10 provinces: Massa-Carrara, Grosseto, Prato, Pistoia and Siena

3. Sicily will lose 2 of its 9 provinces: Enna and Caltanissetta

4. Umbria will lose 1 of its 2 provinces: Terni. Perugia will remain

5. Molise will lose both of its provinces: Campobasso and Isernia (presumably, the Region will remain)

6. Marche will lose its 2 southernmost provinces: Fermo and Asoli Piceno (the 3 northernmost will remain)

7. Calabria will lose 2 of its 5 provinces: Crotone and Vibo Valentia

8. Liguria will lose 3 of its 4 provinces: Imperia, Savona and La Spezia. Genova will remain

9. Friuli-Venezia Giulia will lose 2 of its 4 provinces: Trieste and Gorizia

10. Veneto will lose 2 of its 5 provinces: Rovigo and Belluno

OBSERVATION: This is an extremely controversial proposal, with very significant political, financial, administrative and HR consequences. One-third of the Italian provinces would be abolished. Not surprisingly, there will be enormous "push back" from the regions and affected provinces, as well as labor unions and local politicians. Significant modifications to the legislative proposal are to be expected.

Another article:

http://www.repubblica.it/economia/20...DRM-20385002-2

NOTE: According to calculations of La Repubblica, even Aosta (an autonomous region) could be abolished (unclear whether it would become part of Piemonte, seems unlikely for historical reasons)

Aduchamp1

That would mean you have less places to visit.

Jean

Wow. I guess drastic measures have to be considered, but this is really something.

I would be interested to know the tangible impact on local residents and (I admit, selfishly) us tourists.

zeppole

The package of measures put before the Italian parliament plainly says that the abolition of provinces is being proposed "for the future," and would not be undertaken by Berlusconi's government. (It would be the job of a succeeding government).

Tourists might feel some immediate impact from a couple of measures if the package is approved by parliament: All non-religious public holidays would be moved to Sundays, and cash purchases above 2,500 euro will no longer be allowed.

Also, there are many elements of the austerity package that make it not unreasonable to contemplate large scale strikes and demonstrantions taking place in Italy.

And those most affected by the prospect of pension reductions, lay-offs, higher income taxes, etc -- can be expected to appeal to the public at large by focusing on the abolition of provinces, and portraying it as a negative.

Largely undiscussed and unaddressed in the package is Italy's problems with tax collection and, morever, the irresponsibility of the global banking system and the failure of any of the major economies and governments -- not just Italy's -- to embark on serious reform.

zeppole

Re-reading my own post, I felt it was worth it to add that opponents of the public sector and taxation in Italy, as in the US, are seeing to fan a public irritation with bureaucracy and regulations by talking as if abolishing Italian provinces would solve national fiscal woes. It is essentially a distraction from the main problem -- which is the failure of people in democratic countries to elect governments that aren't beholden to banking lobbies.

qwovadis

European fiancial contagions are spreading the PIIGS

Are atoning for decades to centuries of non-prodructivity.

Markets/Banks in Italy have been in a freefall of collapse

last week taking ALL of europe down it is now unlawful

to short French/Italian bank stocks a very scary development

So look for VERY rough times ahead in Italy very sad for

locals and tourists reduced services increased tax burden.

The new Florence Rome hotel guest tax of 1 euro per person

per star per day can really mount up from personal experience.

Sooner or later the chickens of financial irresponsibility

come home to roost... US not far behind with cluless politicos

of both parties debasing our dollars by unlimited printing

press action Zimbabwe tried that a few years ago did not help.

Their 100 TRILLION dollar bill can be bid

on Ebay.com/100trilliondollarbill from $1...

So only increasing prodructivity and decreasing expense

will balance a budget... good for Italy hope it works.

qwovadis

How can anyone govern a nation
that has two hundred and
forty-six different kinds of cheese?

Charles De Gaulle

Trimming LOTS of beaurocrats in Europe and the US

seems a very easy cost-effective and wise solution.

Get all able bodied folks off the dole and into job roles

Infrastructure employment like CCC that FDR did to save us

in the depression seems wise... no one takes clues for history

or even reads it for that matter.

GAC

Correction: the legislative proposal to eliminate any province with fewer than 300,000 inhabitants affects 37 (not 36) provinces: the province of Piacenza (in Emilia) was inadvertently left out of the Corriere della Sera's initial calculations (corrected in later versions of the website).

In any case, the proposal would not take effect until after the next census, when a few provinces just shy of 300,000 inhabitants might "slide past the finish line", whereas other provinces currently slightly above the threshold might slip under into oblivion.

Aosta should not be counted, since it is an autonomous region and no longer a province for administrative purposes.

Why should this topic be of interest on this forum?:

1. If it becomes Law, tourists will be indeed be affected in small but noticeable ways (for those who care to take note);

2. The re-drawing of provincial boundaries would represent a change of gigantic proportions, wiping out provinces of huge historical significance (think of Siena and Trieste, just to name two), and changing the administrative geography of the country. Something of interest to at least some readers (and of no interest to others).

annhig

Tourists might feel some immediate impact from a couple of measures if the package is approved by parliament: All non-religious public holidays would be moved to Sundays, and cash purchases above 2,500 euro will no longer be allowed.>>

???? cash purchases by whom? how do they intend to enforce that? no more under the table shenanigans?

I do not believe it!

A_Brit_In_Ischia

See also...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTop...ome_Lazio.html

Peter

CYESQ

Sorry but I just don't get the point of this post. The issue is a political/legislative matter. It's not like these provinces will disappear from the map, their jurisdictions will just be redrawn according to the governmental dictate. I don't see what difference it will make to someone visiting these areas.

annhig

yes, CYESQ, I too had visions of bits of tuscany being towed out into the Med, to place the newly-abolished areas off tourist-limits.

I really don't get what currency limits and holiday abolitions have got to do with tourists, but perhaps the OP will enlighten us.

jnjfraz

I don't see the tourist being affected, but I can envision longer lines for locals.

jamikins

I tend to agree - how will this really impact tourists - its not like naming the province of Siena something different will change any of the tourist sites...?

To me it appears to be an admin thing - like when they created the Greater Toronto Area and got rid of half the mayors and admin in the surrounding Toronto area - so yes if you live there who picks up your garbage and who you pay your property tax might change and your politics may change - but tourists wouldnt notice a difference...?

GAC

Here is one way how the reduction of provinces might affect tourism: typically, local bus routes emanate out of the provincial capital. If a provincial capital loses its designation as such, and the neighboring province which is tasked to "take over" administrative functions is so inclined (because of significant budgetary reductions or otherwise), there might (and I say "might", because we don't know) be a reduction of public transportation services (which are publically subsidized) out of the abolished provincial capital. Now, such reduction in services should be less likely to occur out of larger cities which lose their status as provincial capital, but is perhaps more likely out of the smaller cities. Even a modest reduction in services would affect the convenience of tourists needing to get from one town to another by public transportation.

But, I think that the larger point behind my original posting is simply to note how significant a change the proposed legislation would create (if passed) to the administrative delegation of authority and to the administrative landscape of the country, which would see a 1/3 reduction in the number of provinces after many decades during which the number of provinces nearly doubled since Italy was "unified" in 1860. While not of direct concern or interest to most tourists, such a "change of direction" in political administration may, at a minimum, stoke the curiousity of some foreigners wanting to learn more about Italian administrative politics and subdivision of local authority

Jean

One small town's response:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/wo...ewanted=1&_r=1

scrb11

How significant is tourism to the country's economy? For some of the smaller towns/provinces, it seems tourism would be very significant.

Surely they wouldn't cut services which could discourage tourism.

Jean

Does Filettino get many tourists? I don't know. But does cutting financial support to small town administration while keeping an equal amount of money in the budget to pay for the lower Parliament's restaurant services sound like austerity? Does having well-fed members of Parliament promote tourism?

Sure smells a lot like WashDC and our illustrious Congress.

bilboburgler

The chances of Italy organising itself into some sort of financially stable position is zero. These are just the words of a spouting idiot who has bankrupted the country and handed it over to the corrupt.

If this does happen there will be no savings.

ira

Hey Zepp,

>the main problem -- ... is the failure of people in democratic countries to elect governments that aren't beholden to banking lobbies.<

That's very interesting.

Here in the US we spent 30 years running up a debt of about $12 Trillion so that Reagan could outspend "The Evil Empire", Bush could bail out the S&L industry and w could fight two wars - and all of this while lowering taxes on the wealthy.