massimop

Thought I'd pass along that, after boarding a train midday in Milano Centrale train station and settling into my seat, I overheard the beginnings of an argument between some people behind me in the near-empty carriage: An elderly Italian couple was arguing vehemently with a younger Italian man. I had needed to manuever around this elderly couple entering the train, because they had stopped mid-aisle, seeming confused about where their seats were. I didn't pay much attention to the argument they were now having with someone else. I just assumed the young man was arguing that he had reserved the seat one of them was sitting in, and they were arguing he could sit elsewhere & they wanted to keep these seats.

However, my traveling companion was facing the other way & as the argument got much louder he explained to me that the younger man was insisting on stowing his luggage over the head of the seats the elderly couple were occupying, shoving their luggage out of the way. I heard the voice of a young female intervene in the argument, and soon the younger man stormed out of the carriage. My companion reported the guy was "just being a total *ss*hole" but I said: "Or maybe creating a distraction in the carriage so as to rob somebody?"

Sure enough, moments later, the elderly Italian woman was exclaiming she couldn't find her wallet. Her husband found the train conductor, who phoned a description to the station police. Fortunately, all that appeared to have been in the stolen wallet were the train tickets, small change and replaceable documents (driver's license, identity card, heallh card, etc). She spent the next hour or so on the phone with her daughter getting credit cards blocked.

My companion never saw how the theft of the wallet was accomplished, but we suspect it was the young female who intervened.

Hard o know how to protect yourself against an aggressive train thief who is trying to move your luggage, especially one with an accomplice who pretends to be coming to your aid. Maybe immediately threaten to call police/conductor (even shout for them immediately)? If you are in a train car where an argument breaks out, focus on your own belongings and be aware the point of the argument might be to distract you, even if no one is arguing with you.

On a separate note, while passing through Milano Centrale station, changing trains, I noticed several men pushing large luggage carts along the platforms . They appeared to be wearing vests with insignias, but when I got close to one of them, the vest was so dirty and old I doubted it was a company issued uniform. I didn't look long enough to make out what the writing was. But the thought crossed my mind that there may be platform thieves/extortionists in Milan who've invested in equipment and "uniforms" to look like official baggage handlers.

Lots of opportunities for thieves to operate in the Milan station. Although access to the platforms for those departing from Milan is restricted to ticket holders (who must pass through security gates), anybody can get to the platforms and onto trains simply by arriving into Milan from another nearby train station (as I was).

No doubt about it in my mind that thieves pick their targets. While this time it was a elderly Italian couple, tourists are surely prey as well.

massimop

September & October are popular months for tourist travel in Italy, and Milano Centrale station is a common transit point for many travelers. Will keep topping for the benefit of people planning upcoming trips.


A money belt is a good investment, and recommend following the advice not to travel with anything valuable you aren't using abroad (driver's license, house keys, etc), esp. if it would be difficult to impossible to replace.

PalenQ

Never leave any valuables in stowed luggage - never ever anywhere. Always always in money belt or security device that goes under your clothing.

Stories of fake porters have been rife for years in places like Rome Termini and large stations like Milan Centrale. Not saying these were but could be.

Tommmo

Hate to say it , but yes Italy , particularly the train system is rife with thieves. Great care is needed (but not paranoia)
We were pushed squeezing onto the train for Pompeii and looking down saw my passport lying on the floor - removed from a zipped up side pocket. Very lucky to get it back that time and everything now goes in the under clothes pouch.....

massimop

i don't agree that Italy is worse than other European countries for having problems with criminals in train stations and on public transportation. In fact, what can be worrisome traveling in Italy is that one grows so accustomed to being safe & worry-free in that regard, in so many venues in Italy, then it is easy to become lees vigilant where it matters the most.

Regarding "fake porters", what caught my interest passing through Milano Cenrale was seeing the professional luggage carts. My first thought was that this was a new amenity at the station, especially since platform access is restricted. Like I said, I didn't examine the set-up very closely, only in passing. So just putting up a flag for others. If you think you see "porters" in the station, avoid them unless you can make certain they are legit. It's a common scam in Italian train stations to target female & older travelers with offers to help carry luggage -- and then refuse to handover the luggage until the traveler forks over a lot of cash (running further risks of wallets getting snatched, etc)

Also felt yesterday, passing through the Milan train station, that guards checking tickets were stereotypically inattentive. One middle-aged guard seemed far more interested in chatting up a young female. His young counterpart was eager to show off his English, being superfriendly. Just added to the general impression the station is not secure, maybe especially in the waning days of summer, on a Sunday afternoon.

Anyway, who knows if Milano Centrale will tighten up its act, so people using the station should take max precautions.

bvlenci

There have been unofficial porters in Milano Centrale for a long time, with official looking luggage carts. I wouldn't say "fake" because they really did port our luggage, when my daughter left for 6 months to do research in Ghana, about 8 years ago. She had tons of luggage, including several laptops, cassette tapes, notebooks, and all the personal stuff she needed (water filters, solar power sources, etc.). We were quite happy to engage one of these porters when we arrived at Milano Centrale.

massimop

So they are allowed to operate legally on the platforms? What did you pay for the service?

bvlenci

This was some time ago, well before access to the platforms was restricted. I don't remember what we paid. I was just trying to say that there have always been these unofficial porters. At that time (and maybe still) taxis and the airport shuttle bus (before there was a train to Milano Centrale) arrived at the bottom of a large staircase, and these porters had carts that could negotiate the stairs. Recently I've always arrived at Milano Centrale either on foot or by train or metro, so I don't know what the situation is now.

PalenQ

the 'danger' of unofficial porters could be that though many may be legit in doing the service though unofficial there may be those unofficial porters who just run off with your bags? I'd stick with ones clearly licensed or be vigilant about where your bags are going!

massimop

Interesting. Usually I am traveling through the platform area of Milano Centrale so fast, needing to make a tight connection, that I never paid attention to who else was on the platforms. This time, I just happened to have about a one-hour layover between connections, which is probably why I took note of the porters with pushcarts.

I believe that in Naples there was an official crackdown once the Rreccia trains began making regular stops there.

I was recently chatting with a friend who was recalling a trip she took a few years back in Italy. Some of her companions wanted help with their bags in some popular Italian city (can't remember which), and my friend warned her companions not to accept help. They ignored her, and ended up having to pay a painful amount to get their bags bag out of the clutches of the porters. Supposedly the travelers asked "how much?" at the beginning, and they were told something like "10" -- but then the porters demanded 10 per bag or some other larger amount.

I only once have traveled in Italy with more luggage than I could manage on my own, and then I took taxis from the airport & hired a car the reset of the way. Just in general I would avoid trying to move a lot of luggage on & off trains & through stations. I realize others might not have that choice depending on their finances or itinerary, but I would still recommend it o anybody, and would not recommend relying on help from strangers at the stations.

PalenQ

bags with wheels are key.

marvelousmouse

In some places people will actually help you with your luggage, jor help you purchase tickets, just to be nice. So I can kind of see falling for it. But on the other hand, all the scams I ran across in Italy- especially the train station ones- are obviously shady and usually make no sense. So I'm always wondering if the people who fell for them just shut their brains off when they entered the country.
Or do they never take transit to and from the airport anywhere. I can believe that, actually. Had a friend show up with a duffle bag once, and while I did have my car, I had trouble understanding why she would want to lug something that heavy even across the airport. I mean it was awful to just get it to the short term parking.

The guy with the luggage though, that's something that stinks in hind sight but is upsetting in the moment. Clever and awful.

Dukey1

There are a lot of people in the USA who have never ridden a train in their entire life who might easily think some "porter" was legit.

I cannot remember ever even seeing one, especially at Milano Centrale but perhaps that was because I wouldn't have used one anyway.

As to the so-called "helping" train travelers, that has been going on for years in Italy (the ticket machines) and, I suspect, some other countries.

bvlenci

While I don't remember what we paid the "porter" in Milano Centrale, it was a reasonable amount. It would have been hard to make off with my daughter's luggage, and it didn't seem very appealing, as it was all still covered with red dust.

The people helping at the ticket machines are a plague, and in Rome I have reason to suspect that they're paying off the police to turn a blind eye. I once threatened to report a particularly aggressive "helper", who refused to back off when I was making a credit card transaction, which needed a PIN, and he just laughed at me. A ticket agent also told me he had his suspicions.

marvelousmouse

Dukey, free porters do not exist in American bus stations or airports, so one doesn't need to be an experienced international traveller to draw the conclusion that the Italian porters will not be free and may not be honest. Maybe Italian beggars are more brazen and pickpocketing more common, but most Americans have been to major American cities where they would encounter similar scams.

I got warned so much about scams in Europe by various people when I was trip planning, and then I got there and it's the same kind of thing you'd run into in a good sized city in the US. It's just street smarts. The people by the ticket machines, or selling leather jackets out of their trunk, or offering you a petition in front of the Eiffel Tower...none of it is subtle. They're more insistent, maybe, but anyone lurking near a machine where you use your pin is suspect. Don't care if it's termini or the transit station in Seattle or your bank ATM in podunk Idaho.