On Being a Tourist or NOT being a Tourist: (General, existential question)
Jun 8th, 2004, 11:59 AM
#21
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WELL! Shut my mouth! I just found Wes Fowler's treatise which perhaps was the inspiration for this thread?
It doesn't sound like a Peterman ad.
I blush. I stand corrected.
By his definition, I hope I'm a traveller, all I wanna do is learn "stuff"... oh that and get rich and move there...for quite some time
It doesn't sound like a Peterman ad.
I blush. I stand corrected.
By his definition, I hope I'm a traveller, all I wanna do is learn "stuff"... oh that and get rich and move there...for quite some time
Jun 8th, 2004, 12:11 PM
#22
How about the compromise term of "visitor"? I'm certainly not a Traveler with a capital T (who I picture as already mentioned making round-the-world year-long treks to remote locations). But I'm not sure about using tourist in my case because I hate to "tour" anything, don't really care for most major tourist sites, will do anything to get out of going to a museum, dislike lines and crowds of people... but rather LOVE to live in a new place as if it were my own home even for one week.
Jun 8th, 2004, 12:48 PM
#23
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It's interesting to look back at Wes Fowler's thread. Early in the thread, the general tone was that a tourist was a shallow tour bus riding, photo snapping buffoon and the traveler looked deep into the places they visited, studied the history and carefully considered his or her place on this small planet. Many didn't outwardly determine which label it was better to claim, but the message was pretty clear.
As time passed and the thread was reinvigorated, there seemed to be a shift towards the acceptance of oneself as a tourist and the sense of snobbery surrounding that term began to vanish. Now, even a self proclaimed snob (NYCFS) has declared herself a tourist and proudly at that! Why, it's even OK to take a camera with you!
I'm not here to tell you if this is a good trend or a bad trend (though personally I like it) but it sure seems to be an obvious shift. The funniest comment was the suggestion that those who read the writings of Mr. Steve's are travel elitists. My, how things have changed and only in 1.5 years. Hmmmm, maybe registration brought this all about.
Bill
As time passed and the thread was reinvigorated, there seemed to be a shift towards the acceptance of oneself as a tourist and the sense of snobbery surrounding that term began to vanish. Now, even a self proclaimed snob (NYCFS) has declared herself a tourist and proudly at that! Why, it's even OK to take a camera with you!
I'm not here to tell you if this is a good trend or a bad trend (though personally I like it) but it sure seems to be an obvious shift. The funniest comment was the suggestion that those who read the writings of Mr. Steve's are travel elitists. My, how things have changed and only in 1.5 years. Hmmmm, maybe registration brought this all about.
Bill
Jun 8th, 2004, 01:08 PM
#24
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An early 20th century travel writer named Paul Fussel described a type of traveler that he called an anti-tourist.
For an anti-tourist, travel was nothing more than an act of vanity whose primary goal was never to be mistaken for a common tourist. The typical anti-tourist was a middle-class person that desperately wanted to be mistaken for a member of the leisure class. True members of the leisure class rarely qualify as anti-tourists because they don't give a hoot what others think of them.
The anti-tourist would never be seen with a camera around his or her neck.
The anti-tourist prefers to visit obscure sights such as the Earl of Burlington's 18th century villa and has never been to Westminster Abbey.
Anti-tourists expend as much effort trying to convince others that they speak the local language as others sometimes do in actually learning the local language.
Anti-tourists are everywhere. There are even a few in this forum.
For an anti-tourist, travel was nothing more than an act of vanity whose primary goal was never to be mistaken for a common tourist. The typical anti-tourist was a middle-class person that desperately wanted to be mistaken for a member of the leisure class. True members of the leisure class rarely qualify as anti-tourists because they don't give a hoot what others think of them.
The anti-tourist would never be seen with a camera around his or her neck.
The anti-tourist prefers to visit obscure sights such as the Earl of Burlington's 18th century villa and has never been to Westminster Abbey.
Anti-tourists expend as much effort trying to convince others that they speak the local language as others sometimes do in actually learning the local language.
Anti-tourists are everywhere. There are even a few in this forum.
Jun 8th, 2004, 01:31 PM
#25
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When I was in Bellagio two weeks ago, I was definitely a tourist. A polite tourist (I hope), but a tourist nonetheless. When we go to the Loire Valley next week, we'll be tourists.
However, whereever we go, we are usually mistaken for locals.
Not because of our clothes, manners or command of the language, but because we are usually walking our dog.
So if you want to *not* look like a tourist, wear your sneakers, your t-shirts, your baseball caps, whatever you like, just make sure you bring a dog!
On our (rare) dog-free travels, my husband is invariably thought to be German (which is fair because he is half-German) and I am thought to be English (which I am definitely not). We are still pegged as tourists, just not American tourists. Haven't worked out what that means exactly...
However, whereever we go, we are usually mistaken for locals.
Not because of our clothes, manners or command of the language, but because we are usually walking our dog.
So if you want to *not* look like a tourist, wear your sneakers, your t-shirts, your baseball caps, whatever you like, just make sure you bring a dog!
On our (rare) dog-free travels, my husband is invariably thought to be German (which is fair because he is half-German) and I am thought to be English (which I am definitely not). We are still pegged as tourists, just not American tourists. Haven't worked out what that means exactly...
Jun 8th, 2004, 01:54 PM
#26
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Oh, Bill, thank you so much for your esteemed, scholarly attention. Tell me, dear, what do you think the veteran editors at <i>The New York Times</i> and that writing institution known as, <i>The New Yorker,</i> think about writers who begin sentences with the word "and?" When you find out, dear, be sure and offer me your version of an English lesson.
ps I've always acknowledged my status as tourist here at Fodors and I <b>NEVER</b> scoff at anyone carrying a camera. I'm a professional photographer and I take my camera everywhere I go.
If you're like me and LOVE to take pictures of people, places and things, DON'T hesitate to take your camera. A moment in time lasts just a moment. Capture it!
ps I've always acknowledged my status as tourist here at Fodors and I <b>NEVER</b> scoff at anyone carrying a camera. I'm a professional photographer and I take my camera everywhere I go.
If you're like me and LOVE to take pictures of people, places and things, DON'T hesitate to take your camera. A moment in time lasts just a moment. Capture it!
Jun 8th, 2004, 02:09 PM
#27
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If I visit Mt.Rushmore am I a tourist?
If I visit Yellowstone Nat'l Park what am I?
When I am visiting in the states I feel like it is my home so I don't think of myself as a tourist, I am just visiting a sight.
In another country I guess I become a tourist because I don't live there.
Now what if I visit relatives in England, am I a tourist sitting in their kitchen sipping tea? Or am I a visitor?
If I visit Yellowstone Nat'l Park what am I?
When I am visiting in the states I feel like it is my home so I don't think of myself as a tourist, I am just visiting a sight.
In another country I guess I become a tourist because I don't live there.
Now what if I visit relatives in England, am I a tourist sitting in their kitchen sipping tea? Or am I a visitor?
Jun 8th, 2004, 03:53 PM
#29
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NYCFS:
I hope you don't think I was attacking you. What I was saying is that someone, whose moniker includes the word snob can now identify herself as a tourist when in the past, the snobbery of this board would suggest that being a tourist was a bad thing. I went on to point out that I appreciate the change. I am tired of the ?looking like a tourist? debates and ?how can I just blend in? crap that we hear on these boards. When I was in London last week I decided that if you want to just blend in, wear absolutely anything especially if it does something to highlight your worst physical characteristic.
I?m so disappointed that the only thing you could do to respond was to join the grammar police and attack me. You took my message the wrong way and decided to be petty. I would hope that you could do better. By the way, I checked and Microsoft didn?t have any problem with the grammar other than the sentence that began with ?My? which I am aware is improper. Now MS is NOT the NY Times or The New Yorker and I should have all of my work here edited by them before I submit it.
Like you, I always carry a camera with me. I think it is a good thing which again, was my point. I?m sorry that you took that as an attack and even after I posted it and reread it, I realized that it was possible you might mistakenly take it as an attack. I figured though (I know, a ?not so good? use of the word ?figure?) that you would be able to understand my message.
If I can do anything else to clarify my meaning in the future, please feel free to ask. No need to be petty.
Bill
I hope you don't think I was attacking you. What I was saying is that someone, whose moniker includes the word snob can now identify herself as a tourist when in the past, the snobbery of this board would suggest that being a tourist was a bad thing. I went on to point out that I appreciate the change. I am tired of the ?looking like a tourist? debates and ?how can I just blend in? crap that we hear on these boards. When I was in London last week I decided that if you want to just blend in, wear absolutely anything especially if it does something to highlight your worst physical characteristic.
I?m so disappointed that the only thing you could do to respond was to join the grammar police and attack me. You took my message the wrong way and decided to be petty. I would hope that you could do better. By the way, I checked and Microsoft didn?t have any problem with the grammar other than the sentence that began with ?My? which I am aware is improper. Now MS is NOT the NY Times or The New Yorker and I should have all of my work here edited by them before I submit it.
Like you, I always carry a camera with me. I think it is a good thing which again, was my point. I?m sorry that you took that as an attack and even after I posted it and reread it, I realized that it was possible you might mistakenly take it as an attack. I figured though (I know, a ?not so good? use of the word ?figure?) that you would be able to understand my message.
If I can do anything else to clarify my meaning in the future, please feel free to ask. No need to be petty.
Bill
Jun 8th, 2004, 03:56 PM
#30
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Budman writes: "... I ususlly recommend that they wear a 10-gallon hat, cowboy boots, and a large belt buckle."
Maybe the people you saw dressed like that were from a travelling 'Wild West' show.
There's nothing wrong with being a tourist; and if you're more comfortable dressing as you do back home, just go for it. Many Europeans like to copy American dress styles, anyway.
I have seen people dressed as cowboys in Europe: some Irish, even some from the Ukraine. Country & Western is very popular in Ireland. I have enjoyed C&W in Connemara (Ross a'Veal) and in Mayo (Ballina). The performers often try to dress 'country,' but I can usually spot a flaw in their outfit that tells me they are faux Cowboys:
European blue jeans are cut differently from Levis or Wranglers and they just have one back pocket;
Genuine Cowboy boots are pointy-toed and high-heeled so the working cowboy can catch the stirrup;
The belt buckle may signify a saddle bronc rider or a bull rider. It's worn as a trophy; the hat should match (i.e., the way the bull rider's hat is shaped and worn should match the Belt buckle).
I admit that I am a Tourist but not one who can't find the way to the restroom in any country I visit. I usually can communicate in a common language and not rely on everyone speaking English. When I encounter someone who does not understand Engish I don't do the 'Ugly American:' bit (i.e., continue to speak English but turn up the volume and enunciate every syllable). It takes me a very short time to figure out how to get around most places I visit using whatever public transport is available.
I may be an American Tourist but I am not mentally retarded. Yes, there are more ways to be a tourist and I think I have learned most of the less offensive tourist behavior and how to avoid it.
Maybe the people you saw dressed like that were from a travelling 'Wild West' show.
There's nothing wrong with being a tourist; and if you're more comfortable dressing as you do back home, just go for it. Many Europeans like to copy American dress styles, anyway.
I have seen people dressed as cowboys in Europe: some Irish, even some from the Ukraine. Country & Western is very popular in Ireland. I have enjoyed C&W in Connemara (Ross a'Veal) and in Mayo (Ballina). The performers often try to dress 'country,' but I can usually spot a flaw in their outfit that tells me they are faux Cowboys:
European blue jeans are cut differently from Levis or Wranglers and they just have one back pocket;
Genuine Cowboy boots are pointy-toed and high-heeled so the working cowboy can catch the stirrup;
The belt buckle may signify a saddle bronc rider or a bull rider. It's worn as a trophy; the hat should match (i.e., the way the bull rider's hat is shaped and worn should match the Belt buckle).
I admit that I am a Tourist but not one who can't find the way to the restroom in any country I visit. I usually can communicate in a common language and not rely on everyone speaking English. When I encounter someone who does not understand Engish I don't do the 'Ugly American:' bit (i.e., continue to speak English but turn up the volume and enunciate every syllable). It takes me a very short time to figure out how to get around most places I visit using whatever public transport is available.
I may be an American Tourist but I am not mentally retarded. Yes, there are more ways to be a tourist and I think I have learned most of the less offensive tourist behavior and how to avoid it.
Jun 8th, 2004, 04:02 PM
#31
Similar to the question of sipping tea with English relatives by nocinonut... when I go to Europe and my only activity is to be a houseguest of a dear friend living there, I don't feel like a tourist or traveler either one. Just a lucky person with friends who live in beautiful places. Oh dear, now we need a new catagory!
Jun 8th, 2004, 04:25 PM
#34
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<i>"...even a self proclaimed snob (NYCFS)..."</i>
"Attack" is not the word I would choose but "misleading" and "untrue" work just fine. I've defined "FoodSnob" on several threads. Maybe they were deleted. Maybe you missed them. Too bad. To me, there's a significant distinction between someone who cherishes the great flavors of life and someone who thinks they are better than someone else. <i>"I would hope that you could do better."</i>
<i>"I'm so disappointed that the only thing you could do to respond was to join the grammar police and attack me."</i>
So sorry to disappoint you but, it was you, sweet Bill, who, not so long ago, reprimanded my English because I started a sentence with "and," calling into question my English education. How petty.
If you intend to poke at me on the coattails of Bill Gates, you can expect a kick-box reaction from me. I'm a MAC girl, which is why an apostrophe appears as an apostrophe and not as a question mark in all my posts.
No hard feelings, fellow camera holder.
"Attack" is not the word I would choose but "misleading" and "untrue" work just fine. I've defined "FoodSnob" on several threads. Maybe they were deleted. Maybe you missed them. Too bad. To me, there's a significant distinction between someone who cherishes the great flavors of life and someone who thinks they are better than someone else. <i>"I would hope that you could do better."</i>
<i>"I'm so disappointed that the only thing you could do to respond was to join the grammar police and attack me."</i>
So sorry to disappoint you but, it was you, sweet Bill, who, not so long ago, reprimanded my English because I started a sentence with "and," calling into question my English education. How petty.
If you intend to poke at me on the coattails of Bill Gates, you can expect a kick-box reaction from me. I'm a MAC girl, which is why an apostrophe appears as an apostrophe and not as a question mark in all my posts.
No hard feelings, fellow camera holder.
Jun 8th, 2004, 06:06 PM
#35
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Very interesting. When I first came to Fodors, I think my answer would have been traveller, because of those knee jerk reactions some of us have to the loudmouthed, presumptuous, arrogant, pushy culturally insensitive tourists that stand out so loudly in a crowd. (And don't anyone harp on me about being Anti-American... I didn't mention any nationalities in that description.)
After a couple months around here, I've changed tunes... proud to be a TOURIST, and there's not much I can do about it. I don't live there, and I'm touring around seeing things.
That said, I do speak passable French and Italian, and can get by well enough that sometimes the locals and other tourists don't realize I'm American. I'd be lying if I said those moments make me feel a little excited, to be somehow "part of the club" which I think even in Wes' original post he implied this desire to feel like you're part of the place. But I've also travelled enough to know that no matter what I do, everything about me is going to scream "not a local."
And who cares. If I'm in a big urban area, I'm likely there with thousands of other tourists from all over the world doing the same things I'm doing on my vacation. And if I'm going to a remote village in Tuscany with 200 people, of course I won't be "blending in" since most of those families go back hundreds of years.
~k
After a couple months around here, I've changed tunes... proud to be a TOURIST, and there's not much I can do about it. I don't live there, and I'm touring around seeing things.
That said, I do speak passable French and Italian, and can get by well enough that sometimes the locals and other tourists don't realize I'm American. I'd be lying if I said those moments make me feel a little excited, to be somehow "part of the club" which I think even in Wes' original post he implied this desire to feel like you're part of the place. But I've also travelled enough to know that no matter what I do, everything about me is going to scream "not a local."
And who cares. If I'm in a big urban area, I'm likely there with thousands of other tourists from all over the world doing the same things I'm doing on my vacation. And if I'm going to a remote village in Tuscany with 200 people, of course I won't be "blending in" since most of those families go back hundreds of years.
~k
Jun 9th, 2004, 05:29 AM
#38
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"Author: indytravel ([email protected])
Date: 06/08/2004, 01:50 pm
Message: I do what I want to do. I don't give a darn what the locals, other tourists or powers-that-be think. I'm not interested in their approval or disapproval."
Good for you. This is the correct answer. People who feel the sudden need to change their identitites just because they leave home are seriously deficient in self-esteem. When I go to restaurant or hotel in Europe, I am a customer spending me hard earned money and expect to be treated that way. They are not doing me a favor.
Date: 06/08/2004, 01:50 pm
Message: I do what I want to do. I don't give a darn what the locals, other tourists or powers-that-be think. I'm not interested in their approval or disapproval."
Good for you. This is the correct answer. People who feel the sudden need to change their identitites just because they leave home are seriously deficient in self-esteem. When I go to restaurant or hotel in Europe, I am a customer spending me hard earned money and expect to be treated that way. They are not doing me a favor.
Jun 9th, 2004, 05:49 AM
#40
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Frankly, Bill, you began the thread in question by calling me a liar and suggesting that my "interview with prominent Manhattanites" was "unbelievably silly." What boggles my mind is why would you doubt the truth? You don't know me and you have no clue why I would conduct such a survey.
Then you went on to call me an "uncultured, uneducated swine." Not only is this not true, it's quite an ugly, inappropriate, personal attack that warrants challenging. This is not something a caring, thoughtful woman is likely to forget, especially when it came from a man.
Yes, I don't care much for lazy people and I did call into question someone's "lack of education in social manners." I think my choice of wording speaks for itself. I accept your apology.
Then you went on to call me an "uncultured, uneducated swine." Not only is this not true, it's quite an ugly, inappropriate, personal attack that warrants challenging. This is not something a caring, thoughtful woman is likely to forget, especially when it came from a man.
Yes, I don't care much for lazy people and I did call into question someone's "lack of education in social manners." I think my choice of wording speaks for itself. I accept your apology.
