becky_w

Hi and thanks so much in advance.
I really need help on the last 3 days. The trains are confusing me!
Here's what I know: my husband and I can't wait to get out of LA and go to Italy, but have been so busy we haven't planned much. Feeling a little panic coming on.

Fly Nov 21
Arrive Rome Nov 22, 3 days.
Feeling ok there. Vatican is only open from 10 am to 1:45. When should we arrive. I hear the lines are bad. Even in November?

5pm train to Florence. 3 days.
On day 3, worth it to take a side trip to Siena or other hill town? Or bus to Fiesole?

8 pm train to Venice. Have hotel for 2 nights

Then, have Nov 28-morning of Dec 1 to do ???? [help!] Venice to Verona, Bologna, Ravenna, Bassano?
Or just stay in Venice for 5.5 days?

We like wine , people watching, good food, offbeat places, museums.We are a writing team, so Shakespeare/Verona connection is appealing. Bassano looks gorgeous.

We do NOT like: tours, endless parades of churches and castles, tourist traps.

If we did a couple of these cities within the last 3 days, what's the best train route to make it happen? Is one worth staying the night in more than another? Keep in mind, I know this is truly a "taste" of Italy and no more. But we'll take what we can get!

10 am flight back to LA from Venice.

Really appreciate any help. Have truly enjoyed reading these forums.

Steve_James

Hi Becky - Siena is a lovely day-trip from Florence - definitely worth it It's very easy by bus.

Have you ever been to Venice before? If not, personally I'd stay 3 nights minimum.

You could either base in Venice for the entire time, or 3 nights there and one other base for 2 nights. Your choice ...

If you do the latter, I'd suggest Padova as the best compomise - as it's convenient for Venice airport for your return flight home.

Apart from Ravenna, the places you want to visit are all easy day-trips by train (- little more than an hour) from either Venice or Padova.

Verona and Bassano are good choices.

If you have time, with an early start you could visit Vicenza on your return from Verona.
And you could combine Bassano with nearby Marostica - or Asolo.

I'd leave Bologna and Ravenna for a future trip ...

Hope this helps ...

Steve

JeanneB

I'm having trouble understanding your schedule.

Arrive Rome 22nd, 3 "days".
I presume this means 2 nights, the 3rd "day" being the day you leave at 5 pm for Florence? So that's 22nd/23rd "nights" in Rome---right?

Leave for Florence 5pm on Nov 24th? "3 days" = nights of 24, 25, 26 November?

8pm train to Venice...on the 27th?

But that can't be right because you say you're spending 2 nights in Venice, ending on Nov 28.

Could you state it more clearly (use hotel nights, not "days&quot.
Thanks.

---------

With such a short time in Rome, and assuming you want to do the Vatican museums, I suggest using a guided tour to bypass the lines. We used Angel Tours, met at the obelisk in front of St. Peters at 11am. (This was winter hours, like yours). St Peters was not included, but she guided us over there and we had plenty of time to see it. Other tours are more "sophisticated", but this was fine for an initial visit.

2mths_to_travel

Hi Becky,

I agree w/ Jeanne on the tour recommendation, it is far easier to get the most out of the Vatican by arranging a tour ahead of time (although I am NOT a tour person either). You can book these online from home, Enjoy Rome has a good one. And yes, there are still lines so the tour allows you to bypass and avoid wasting precious time!

I don't know how you normally site-see BUT if you do decide to hop on the red, double-decker buses (20-25 euros, good for 24 hours) to see Florence then you can actually stay on the bus for the stop in Fiesole. There is a look out point the bus stops at in Fiesole where you can see all of Florence at night + the sunset (if you choose to head up a little later) and it truly is incredible.

Siena is also worth a look, but truthfully if you are concerned about having enough time in Florence (I live in Florence, so naturally I feel you can never spend enough time here!!) spend the morning seeing Florence, take the noon bus (SITA bus from the Stazione across/ around corner from the SMN Train Station, tickets are $6.50 per person, per way)to Siena and then spend 4-5 hours in Siena and come back. It is small enough that you can easily see all the major "monuments" in a 3-4 hours, and then still have time to have dinner in the famous Piazza del Campo (where the Palio horserace takes place).

I would plan to stay based in Venice for 5.5 days and then just take day trips as Steve suggested. Either way Verona is worth seeing and Bassano is very nice, and as Steve suggested there are enough smaller cities you can see in combination with these two that you will not feel as though you missed anything.

Bologna and Ravenna are nice but are further from Venice than the others mentioned. For time efficiency, my thoughts are the same, leave Bologna and Ravenna for another visit.

JeanneB

Just to clarify: we did not book the Angel tour in advance. We could have, but were unsure as to what day we wanted to do the Vatican. We took a chance and simply met the guide at the appointed time/place...it worked out well with only 8 in our group. Bypassed the long line and went right in. We had also done their night monuments tour the night before. It was great!

On our trip last week we had booked a private guide well in advance: Sonia Tavoletta (isn't that a lovely name?!). We spent two days with her, one full afternoon at St. Peters...loved it!

bellini

I'd suggest that at the end of your trip you stay in Venice for 5 days taking small side trips. It's an easy train ride to Verona- a lovely town with the Arena, Juliet's balcony, the church of San Zeno Maggiore, the Scaligeri tombs, roman gateways and the Castelvecchio. Padua (Padova) is also fantastic and equally easy by train from Santa Lucia train station- the Giotto frescoes in the Scrovegni chapel are not to be missed. Boat trips to Torcello and the other islands in the lagoon will also be magically atmospheric at this time of the year!!

ira

Hi B,

I would add 1 night each to V, F and R.

Iwan2go

I'm with Ira. If that's an option at this point.

tuscanlifeedit

I'm thinking about your phrase "endless parade of churches and castles, tourists traps."

Does this include places like the Scrovegni Chapel in Padova? For me, churches and chapels would be the big draw for Padova, but I haven't been there yet, so maybe going by what I've read isn't a good idea.

Verona sounds more like your kind of town. I liked Verona and found lots to see and do without any churches and palaces. Bassano seems like another good choice.

Venice is, to me, endlessly entertaining, but I'm wild about the incredible number of churches and palazzi.

I would try to extend your time in Rome and Florence, and then go to Venice. Don't know if that is possible at this point.

If not, I suggest Verona. Very interesting town with unusual sights.

notbob

I,m with ira as well. If possible add an extra night to each city. It appears that you have 9 nights in Italy. Arriving on Nov 22 departing Dec 1 am. Correct?

It sounds like you have arranged with reservations 2 nights in each city leaving 3 nights at the end open.

If it not possble to change by adding, then I would suggest staying in Venice the extra three nights. For these reasons, I would want stay somewhere near closer to the airport than another city destination the last night because it would make me too crazy about missing the connections traveling from farther away. You could train to Verona for two nights and then come back to Venice for the last night. But it is sometimes difficult to find a place in Venice proper for just one night, many have 2 night mimimums. Plus the extra moving is a pain.

Staying the extra 3 nights in Venice will still give you lots to do and see and even a train day trip Verona if you want.

In Venice after hitiing the Piazza San Marco attractions, try to wander the backwater areas farther away. Have lunch someplace out of the way.

Jackie_in_Italy

I guess of these I'd say Bologna, but it's going to be really foggy, as it seems to get really foggy in those areas in the fall. Not sure if also Bassano and Verona would be foggy--maybe not as much so? I would suggest playing it by ear...maybe even head up to Friuli, to towns like Cividale or Udine or even Trieste.

jabez

I always agree with ira EXCEPT I prfer Rome over Venice.That said,I agree to add time in both.
3 days in Rome is simply too little time (IMHO).
If you want to see the Vatican, plan an early tour. I was there 10 days ago and the lines looked as long as any time that I've been there. The other tour (I know you don't like them) that is a must is the forum.
Fiesole is a nice bus ride and view, but with only 3 days, I doubt that you will want to fit it in. You really don't have the time for day trips.
Have a great trip.

becky_w

Thanks to all so far.
This was one of those package deals where the airfare, hotels (you choose a hotel grade from A to E. We went with C.), and the train tix and taxes are all rolled into one.
I don't know what the conditions are on changing my train tix, hard tix, that I already have in hand. So not sure about increasing nights in Rome and Florence. But if we could, we would also need to find one more night of accommodation in rome and florence.

To clarify dates: I guess it's easier to say 2 nights and 3 days in each city, but they are full days as train departure is not until 6 in Rome and 8 pm in Florence. Once in Venice we have 5 nights. Someone mentioned something about a group (not private) water taxi that goes from Venice to airport. Anyone know cost or where it picks up?

We're not against a gorgeous church or castle, far from it! I just don't want a full day of doing nothing but church after church after church, which was what I did in college.

We're more interested in getting a little lost, finding the little hole in the wall "mom and pop" restaurants off the beaten path, retracing audrey hepburn's path in roman holiday.

As for tours: I see the smarts of doing it at the Vatican as several of you mentioned.

If our tix our locked in as I think they are, Verona and Bassona seem like good side trips. Would we make out better making Verona our base from the 28-30, or stay in Venice and hop a train/bus each day from there. Thoughts?
Thanks!!!

Big_Red

If you are staying in (or near) Bassano, then you might like Marostica. Marostica is not far from Bassano.

I believe that there are one or two hotels within the medieval walls of the old town.

LoveItaly

Hi Becky, with catching the train at 8:00pm at night in Florence to go to Venice be sure to eat before your catch the train to Venice as you will not find anything open (or at least not to my knowledge) by the time you arrive in Venice and get to your hotel. It would probably be a good idea to bring some food with you so if you are a bit hungry when you get to your hotel room in Venice you will have something to snack on. Bringing a bottle of wine (if you drink wine) would be a good idea also..don't forget a bottle opener!.

becky_w

Ah! Excellent idea on the wine and food for late train/late arrival to Venice. Need I worry about making our way at 11 pm thru streets of Venice? Our hotel is 1.5 km from train station. Seems walkable, but have never been to Venice, and don't know area late at night.

becky_w

Also, how does one get from Bassano to Marostica as mentioned by Big Red. Train? Time?

notbob

Ok here's the deal. Stay in Venice the extra nights. The arrival night doesn't really count because by the time you reach you hotel it will be 11:30 or midnight. (by the way, make sure they know you are coming late)

The last day doesn't count because you need to be out at the airport early. So you really only have 4 days in Venice. Vemice is a wonderful magical place, where you don't have to worry about getting hit by a Vespa. You can wander far and wide. One of two things will happen, you like my wife and i will fall inlive with Venice and wonder why you went to Forence at all. We just got back from 8 days in Venice as part of a 13 day trip. We did not get out of the Veneto. Wonderful trip.

Or you'll see all the must see sights, hate Venice, curse the day you ever listened to that bum on Fodor's and then make your way to the train station a do a day trip to Verona or where ever

Here is 4 day Venice itinerary:

Day one Piazza San Marco sights

Basilica, Doge's Palace, Campanile, maybe the Correr Vaporetto trip on the Grand Canal

Day two do the lagoon islands, Murano, Burano, Torcello, maybe San Michelle. lunch at the Cipriani on Torcello

Day three. Let's do art and churches or rather the art of churches. San Giorgio Maggiore, go up in the campanile for breathtaking views of Venice. then Santa Maria Della Salute, like modern art? the Guggenheim collection, then Academia Gallery, Chiesa San Sebastiano (Veronese's church) finish at the Frari ( don't miss the Bellini altar piece) This is kind of a lot for one day.

Day four is out of the way. Get up realy early (be there by at least 7am, 6 or 6:30 better) and watch them set up the Rialto fish and vegetable market. Then make a very large loop through Cannareggio and Castello all the way to Arsenale and back.

If you find yourself near Campo Santa Maria Formosa at lunch time, visit Al Mascaron.

Remember in November, it will dark earlier in the evening and there will probably be some fog.

annabelle2

becky, just a couple comments:

Last time in Rome (2005)our B&B hosts recommended going to the Vatican around lunch time; her advice worked well for us, as the lines were not too bad then. At the Vatican museum (and any other museum for that matter) if you have specific things you want to see or not see, plan ahead either by browsing online museum maps or with a guidebook (I always find Rick Steves does well with streamlined walks through museums) and beeline to what you want to see. Helps with the art overload - and this is coming from someone who could spend hours in museums!

Also, Rick Steves has a nice nightime fountain/monument/piazza walk outlined in his Italy book.

The Bocca di Verite (sorry, I don't know the exact spelling, the Mouth of Truth) from "Roman Holiday" is right outside of a church but behind a gate; make sure you check when it is open so you can take that goofy photo of your hand in the mouth!

While in that part of town you are more or less near San Clemente church. You can get a wonderful feel for the layers, literally, of Rome here. The church has beautiful mosaics, especially the Tree of Life over the altar, and is over an old pre-Christian temple. You wander down through dim passageways; quite atmospheric!

Also in Rome, you might enjoy wandering the Trastevere area; lots of art galleries, music venues and cafes. Good people watching, but then so is all of Rome.

Since you like wine, spend time in the wine bars in Venice; we just went to ones that looked appealing. Informal and friendly, with tasty little plates of cichetti (like tapas) that you can point to and enjoy with your wine.

Verona also has wonderful wine bars if you do stop there (I am another fan of Verona, and it is an easy train ride from Venice).

annabelle2

oh, and you asked about late arrival in Venice. Excellent advice above about eating on the train or beforehand, and telling your hotel of the late arrival.

Last time in Venice our flight was late and we arrived close to 11:00 pm. We followed the B&B's directions and took the vaporetto to our stop. We got off and there we stood in a dark, quiet spot looking at dark quiet ancient buildings, with nothing but tiny little alley like streets heading off into even more darkness.

If I had not been back in Venice a couple of years earlier, I think my pals and I might have freaked a bit. But I convinced them that yes, those WERE the streets (they had both been to Venice before but it had been some time) and we dragged our little wheeled bags a few 'blocks' and found our place. No problem. Just have good directions and be prepared to feel you have stepped back in time!

We felt safer than we ever would feel in a similar situation in most places here in the US.