edie

please help!!!

Caitlin

While Fodor's is trying to sort themselves out, we all have the same old Fodor's; you just missed the three days or so the new format was actually up.

Ed

I'll leave the mad cows to someone else.

Fodor's is the old format for all of us!!!

They gave up on the new format on Friday. (It was Friday, wasn't it? Golly, time goes by so fast when you're having fun!)

danna

Question 1. Got me, I ate beef and enjoyed it completely. Don't know if it's dumb luck, dumb or just the way to go.
Question 2. It changed briefly on friday and many of us missed it. Evidently they put back the old site until further notice. I thought I was slighted too... flashback to Jr. High School but it was for naught. :0

nurse

I would avoid beef just to feel safe. Lamb is plentiful as is seafood and great local cheeses.

jo

I'll share a bit about Mad Cow Disease AKA Bovine spongiform encephalopathy or BSE. It is a neurological disease that causes death by destroying the brain---it becomes sponge-like (hence spongiform) It has been around in the UK since the 1980's. It is what's called a "prion" disease---a small proteinaceous infection particle.They are very slow developing and in animals which are slaughtered fairly early in their lifespans, the infection may not be noticed before the meat enters the markets. Prion diseases in humans are Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)and Kuru. Both of these diseases are assumed to be slow viruses, causing symptoms years after infection. It has been thought that some donor tissues such as corneas and brain covering (dura mater) may transmit the disease. In recent years there has been some evidence that individuals with CJD may have eaten meat infected with BSE and scientists are studying that link. Last week the American Red Cross asked the FDA for permission to restrict individuals from donating blood if they had lived in the UK for a total of 6 mo or greater in the last 15-20 years. I presume this is to prevent a massive blood recall if it is proven that CJD can be caused by eating BSE infected meat. By checking the Center for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization websites, you may be able to make an informed decision regarding your diet while in Ireland. Good luck.

Podie

I have relatives living in Germany. They will no longer eat beef. They are scared to death about the beef they've eaten in the last 10 years. Most deaths have occurred in Great Britain, but it now appears the disease is in Germany and Italy as well. I personally will not eat beef while in Europe. I'm sure my chances of catching the disease are VERY slim, but I'm not taking the chance.

jo

here's a site for a CDC study re: CJD and BSE

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no1/brown.htm

Christine

I live in Switzerland and even here I am very concerned about BSE. Everyone seems to be sticking to all Bio (organic) meat products here. Last week an Italian supplier to McDonalds was found to have an affected cow. Actually the American Red Cross is not allowing anyone who has lived in any country in Europe since 1980 to donate blood. My English husband did all the time when we lived in the U.S.

I find it absolutely revolting that farmers are STILL feeding their livestock remains of other animals, cow eating cow?. It's completely unnatural. Ireland (and the UK) are probably the safer places to eat beef since they dealt with the problem a few years ago. While on the continent...

The US better watch out too though, seems that their is an epidemic of BSE in deer and other venison in Colorado, the remains of some of these animals are then fed to chickens, and in turn the remains of the chickens are fed to cows...disgusting what we allow corporations to do to our food.

Liz

Personally, I wouldn't avoid beef.

The human form of BSE is a tragedy for those affected. However, there have been only around 50 cases in the UK. The amount of media coverage this gets is excessively high (just compare it with the coverage of the El Salvador earthquake where 600+ were killed.)

I think this subject gets excessive media coverage because of A) the 'yukk factor' in feeding animals on the remains of other animals, B) the horrible way this disease develops (it seems to gradually take the victim's personality away, destroying the brain but not the body), and C) it's an excuse to bash the Government - always jumped upon, no matter who's in power.

However, the scientists know very little about this disease - Jo (above) seems to know more than your average man-in-the-street, and even she says 'it's assumed...', 'it's thought...' and 'scientists are studying the link'.
There is very little evidence, either way (which, incidentally is why I support research on extracted tonsils, but that's another debate).

Quite frankly, the chances of catching this disease is incredibly remote. Anyone who smokes/drinks/eats fatty food/too much salt is at risk from much bigger 'slow killers' - heart disease and cancer.

So I'd say - don't worry about BSE, and eat whatever you like.

mike

While the verdict is still out on this forum re: "mad-cow", let me ask this question: Is it such a big deal to avoid eating beef while visiting "over there"? You will certainly survive NOT eating beef. You can be assured rist. are serving plenty of non-beef dishes these days. This is the route I'm taking. Ciao, Mike.

Tracy

Can I add to this question? Avoid beef, but does that also mean beef products, i.e. cheese, etc? does processing those foods somehow kill the virus?

Paige

If it's in dairy products, I'm in trouble! I haven't heard anything about it being transferred via milk. Were the cows that were slaughtered for meat ever dairy cows? Hopefully most dairy cows aren't fed cow parts.

Marcos Velez

Ireland has some of the strictest laws regarding what is imported, or allowed, into the country. I would definitely feel safe eating beef in Ireland (as I have done the past two years when I visited.)

If you are still worried, you can substitute the beef with other suitable meat: lamb, chicken, pork or even turkey! I had them all. The chicken in Ireland is excellent (i dont think they dump them into buckets of water, like we do in the US!) and lamb stew is very good...

Marcos

Ed

I would be more worried about the hormones, antibiotics, and other additives used on livestock in the USA. European countries have refused to accept US beef for the hormones used on the cows. To think that everything is safe here is quite an illusion.

Lidija

Another twist to the story.....was watching the news on Monday night and they had a story about Mad Cow Disease, about how many products are made using the tissue of the cows things like vaccines, beauty products especially anti aging creams. Scientists around the world are studying this trying to figure out if we are in danger, or any risk. Very scary

Tony Hughes

Peanuts kill more people.

Caitlin

In the US it's illegal to feed animal by-products to ivestock.

clairobscur

Paige : most of the cows infected by MCD were dairy cows since they're slaughtered later in their life. However, only some tissues in the body can contain prions, so most of the meat, even in a diseased cow, is assumed to be safe. And, until now at least, there has been no concern about dairy products.
In most (all?) european countries, all body parts and organs which can be infected by the prion are destroyed (I mean in healthy cows...of course, the bodies of diseased cows is completely destroyed...in fact, in several countries, the entire herd is destroyed if one cow is diseased, since they all ate the same food and are at risk of being infected too).

In my opinion, the meat in the UK is not safer than anywhere else. The rules have been stricter there for a longer time, but the number of infected cows in other countries cannot be compared with the UK figures. Except in France, where some hundreds infected animals have been discovered (and the regulations in France are very strict too), there has been only some isolated cases in continental europe (only one, IIRC, in germany, for instance).

With all the regulations about cattle food (but there's still cheaters) and meat, beef is certainly much safer now than 10 years ago. However, while I do eat beef, I'm quite sure that if I was a foreigner visiting europe, I would apply the "better safe than sorry" rule. The risk is probably ridiculously low, but I think that if you're worried about beef, you shouldn't eat it while in Europe. Avoid it and you'll not be wondering for years if you could have been infected.

By the way, there was indeed very few human cases : some dozens in the UK and a handful in France, IIRC. However, since the disease develops very slowly, no one know how many people have been infected, and what to expect in the future. There could be only some hundred cases or some hundred thousands over the next 20 or 30 years. And it seems that the epidemiologists will have to wait for some years before being able to guess it.

Liz

True - that's why the research on extracted tissue such as tonsils would be useful.