OK, How bad is scamming and thievery really?
 

I'll be going on my first trip to Europe in a couple months: Germany, Switzerland, France, and Italy. I've heard/read so many stories about pickpockets, scammers, and the ever ubiquitous gypsies. Is it really that bad?

No! The vast majority of tourists never have any problems of that sort. But why would you see posts saying "I was NOT mugged in Europe". Usually you only hear about those who did get mugged. That is only my personal opinion, buy I've lived in Hungary, and in 15 years I only knew one person, who was mugged once.

I think the gypsies can be a problem in the crowded tourist places in Italy and France - but as long as you are responsible and careful with your belongings they should not worry you. But they are certainly on the lookout for the unwary or careless and are very quick to pounce if the opportunity arises.

Cec, <BR>You will get divergent replies depending on personal experiences and their view of risk acceptance of statistical events. For reasonably objective description see: <BR> <BR>http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html <BR> <BR>However, understand that the state department has to walk a tight rope, while wanting to reduce number of US citizens they have to bail out (as much as they are obliged to) they also have to worry about not offending the host countries. Having traveled to most of the countries you mentioned, the US state department's description is relatively accurate comparison between countries once you have gauged what they mean by "serious crimes" to your risk value system.

I always carry my credit cards, passport, and majority of money in a money belt worn under my clothes, I keep a days worth of spending money in a wallet or coin purse. If that is taken, it won't ruin my trip! Of the countries you are visiting, we did not feel at all threatened in Switzerland. Be careful in the larger cities and places where many tourists visit, especially in Italy and Paris.

My family traveled in Europe for 6 weeks last summer, by car, train & metro. We were fine until a few days before we left. I went shopping with my brother-in-law at Marks & Spencer in Paris. I had a backpack style purse (which I was wearing on my back) and I was pickpocketed. I figured out after the fact, that it was two young woman who kept bumping into me or leaning across me while I was shopping (by the produce, by the sandwich section, in the freezer section, etc). In restrospect, it was obvious what they were doing, but the reason I was unsuspecting is because they were good looking, nicely dressed young ladies and, the store was crowded and everyone seemed to be bumping into me. Although it was a bit upsetting (by the time I reached my bank and credit card companies -probably within 45 minutes after I was pickpocketed - they'd already charged $1200 worth of merchandise!), I was a bit in awe of them. My backpack had a drawstring top, which I had pulled tight and knotted. It also had a flap with a magnetic lock, which is difficult to open. I didn't feel a thing! When I went to pay for my groceries, my purse was unlocked and wide open! Wow. Fortunately, I had all the phone numbers I needed to alert the credit card and atm card people and was not held responsible for the charges. I also spoke to the manager of Marks and Spencer who said that pickpockets are common in that store. He says the ladies that hit me were professional. They'd probably figured out ahead of time what they were going to buy, picked someone obviously a tourist (sigh....), nabbed my cards and went back to buy things as quickly as possible before the theft was discovered. Up to that point, whenever I was in crowded places, I wore the pack on my front. Had I done the same this last time, I probably would have been fine. I think the previous posters said it well. Be careful and use common sense. Do not set down your purse, do not be obvious with your cards and money (probably is best to wear a money belt under your clothes), especially in crowded or touristy areas. With that said, I wouldn't worry about it. As I said, we travelled extensively for several weeks (Austria, Italy & Spain too), and never encountered any other situation in which I was concerned about it. Have fun - just use common sense. <BR> <BR>!

Don't get hooked on this gypsie thing, the people who rob you are criminals and they come in all shapes, sizes and ethnic origins. As Ingrid found you're as likely to be robbed by someone who looks like your next door neighbour as anyone who looks in any way 'criminal'. Particularly you don't want to be so busy looking out for 'gypsies' you miss the real criminals. <BR> <BR>You need to be aware of whats going on around you, nothing heavy just don't get lost in the sort of rapture thats so easy to fall into on holiday. Take sensible precautions much as you would at home. These criminals target holiday makers because some leave home and leave their commonsense on the hall table. <BR> <BR>Having said all that, enjoy yourself because only a small minority of holidaymakers get robbed.

I think getting something of value taken from you anywhere is a lot like acquiring a hospital infection as a consequence of surgery. The percentage is low, but if it happens to you, then the chances are 100%. <BR>I don't think you want to be paranoid about it, but on the other hand I would not stroll around popular tourist areas with my billfold halfway sticking out of my pocket. <BR>My advice is to make yourself a very difficult target. The thieves, like infectious organisms, are out there. <BR>Given the opportunity, they strike. <BR>They spend all day, every day looking for victims. They have to elude the police and they want to make a living. They cannot be too obvious so most attempts are directed only at high probability targets. So the harder target you present, the more they will look elsewhere for a better opportunity. <BR> <BR>I am no expert on this type of thing, but Jesse James once said that he robbed banks because that was where the money was. He also robbed travelers on trains because they were vulnerable and likely to be carrying money and other valuables. So, if you were making your living off of tourists' money by lifting it, who would you go after? A person who looked like they knew where they were going, but did not give any indication of great wealth, or some old fellow dressed expensively with a bulging left rear pocket who looked like he was a stranger?? <BR>My experience also indicates that it is very hard for me to disguise the fact that I am a foreigner. The experienced eye can see me coming 100 yards away and start sizing me up. In the Paris Metro, a fellow decided I was worth an attempt. <BR>But for some reason he passed on taking my billfold, probably because he decided it was to thin to be worth the effort. But he pulled a good trick, that of bumping into me as I boarded the train while he pretended to read the route map above the door. In almost one continual action, he moved to his left, bumped into me, fingered my wallet (unfelt by me), and squeezed out of the closing door onto the platform just as the train started. Fortunately the good stuff was under my two shirts in a neck wallet. <BR> <BR>So my advice is to make yourself a hard target and don't flaunt your wealth. <BR>(E.g. don't wander around Metro stations wearing a diamond necklace and earrings or counting a big roll of currency.) <BR>If you are surrounded by a group of screaming kids, you will have to take vigorous evasive action. I am not sure what that is, other than to cause a scene yourself by yelling at them, and move quickly. Perhaps someone who has experienced that type of attempt can give more valuable suggestions for effective countermeasures.

Thanks to everyone above for the many insights and experiences. I was once expertly pickpocketed in midtown Manhattan, (straight out of a quiet suburb of Minneapolis)and have never been a victim since, having learned from that experience. My male traveling companion is rather blase...he's been to Europe before.....and plans to carry his wallet in his front pocket, while I plan to have a moneybelt. My argument is that before, he was a backpacker with a male companion...this time, he's a young professional with a woman-more likely to be a target. Am I at all correct that this assumption? <BR> <BR>I'm really learning things on this forum-......Thanks to all who replied. <BR> <BR>Cec

Body language and clothes tell professionals a lot. I think I was singled out because I walk with a limp (arthritis), am obviously not French, and probably look old enough to have money -- or else how did I get to Paris?? And I was getting on the Metro car just before the door shut. The thief probably had been hunting all day for just the right victim that enabled him to time his escape move. <BR>I am told that valuables in front pockets are not going to foil a skilled pickpocket. I do not know how much more difficult a target they present than a hip pocket. But even inside coat pockets are not safe unless fastened someway. <BR>In sort of a dark sense of humor thing, I have one pair of slacks that has a pocket that was sewn in crooked. I have to do the hootchy kootchy and use two hands to get my billfold out of it. <BR>I am tempted to take my old sweaty billfold, stuff it with paper so that it looks tempting, and wear it around Paris in those slacks to see if some crook can take it. Don't think I will try it, not at my age, but I would like to see some guy who was a black belt in judo do it, with a companion equally skilled just in case the would be thief got angry and decided to extract a measure of revenge. <BR> <BR>As for coat pockets, I once saw an educational TV special on the training of a pickpocket. The apprentices were taught on a mannikin that was wired with an alarm. If the apprentice was not quite skilled at lifting the wallet, the alarm sounded. The "teacher" demonstrated several moves whereby he took passport cases out of inside coat pockets without tripping the alarm. <BR>The apprentice was not quite as skilled, but he was learning. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Bob, if you do ever try your experiment with your old billfold, be sure to write on one of the pieces of paper, "Tu es un jackass". <BR> <BR>Or is it not proper to use the familiar with a pickpocket?

Sorry to be PC, but I decided I would not let this go by again. A gypsy is a person from a particular ethnic origin- like a black person or an Asian. <BR> <BR>They are not criminals, although some of them may be. Please can we stop using this expression in this way. <BR> <BR>Incidentally, as an answer to the question, being European I holiday here most years and have never been robbed or threatened. Just behave sensibly and you'll be fine (or at least as fine as you would be at home.)

What you hear about Gypsies is true--they are crafty and will lift your wallet before you realize what happened. They distract you with gangs of children, or by waving whatever it is they're selling in your face. In Spain, it's lace tablecloths. Don't buy their goods; when you're not looking, they switch the one you chose with a smaller or shabbier one. I have to admire their skill; they're really good at what they do. <BR>One other tip, that may seem obvious: don't turn you back on your bags, not even for a second! I was distracted by one guy asking me a stupid question, during which time his partner made off with my small backback. I never even saw the accomplice, he was that smooth. All they got was my peanut butter and postcards, but my pride was hurt!--you think you're too sophisticated for their cunning tricks, and then they get you. <BR>

As in all things, you take logical precautions and then don't worry. <BR>I take vitamins and wash my hands (especially during flu season), but don't stay at home to make I don't get sick. <BR>I don't give out personal information to strangers, but I don't shrink in terror and refuse to talk to them. <BR>I step carefully onto escalators, making sure my long coat or skirt is away from the treads, but I don't take elevators to avoid them or break into a panic attack when I approach moving stairs. <BR>I keep my money/cards/passport/tickets in a secure zippered pocket next to my body, but don't panic everytime I'm in a crowd and spend time agonizing over how I could be robbed. <BR> <BR>If I take logical precautions, I should be ok...but it is real life, and s**t does happen...

Very sensible Elvira. <BR>I'd like to offer my two cents. There are several precautions you can take - <BR>1. Dont dress like a tourist. I often see people posting on this board about dressing like a "typical" American. People are always defending Americans right to dress however they want. That is very noble, but remember that the first target of a petty thief is going to be the person that looks like they dont belong. People in the large cosmopolitan European cities that tourists tend to visit usually dress in cosmopolitan styles. So if you wear your pink nylon warm up suit, white reeboks and a big fanny pack - guess what? You are automatically assumed to be a tourist carrying extra cash and out of your element. So try to dress a little less conspicuous and act like you are walking with a purpose when you walk through Sol in Madrid or St Peters Square in Rome. Gawking tourists are easy targets. <BR>2. Dont carry more than you can afford to lose. Rather than cash a travellers cheque for $1000 and carry around a huge wad of bills all day, use ATMs. Find one near your hotel and each day take out only what you expect to use. You will incur some charges, but you won't lose all of your travelling money to a pickpocket. And use your credit card instead of cash whenever possible. Also, unless you are a professional photographer, I would suggest a small automatic camera that can be stored close to your body, rather than one with several attachements, etc that must be carried in an enormous camera bag. Carry only those items you need with you while site seeing, and leave valuables in your hotel safe. The less you have to steal, the less you'll have stolen! <BR> <BR>

For Brian: I don't think I will try that little caper, except in computer simulation!! I never was much good as judo or karate. Until I put on some extra pounds of non muscle, I was built like Barney Fife when he was starring on the Andy Griffith Show back in 1964. <BR>