frank

Intensity of real religious fervour always goes inversely with the level of education.<BR><BR>As a population becomes better educated, it loses its religion.This does not mean that they are right, its just a cast iron fact that they change.<BR><BR>Religion is kept separate from goverment in all well-ordered states.Non secular goverments only occur in backward countries where the idividual has few rights.(unless he is male & of the correct religion)Again this does not imply that these people are right, but it always the case.<BR><BR>England (not the UK) has an "established" (ie official) church, the Church of England, whose head is the Queen.It is still a mainly secular state because the C of E is only barely religious, and although it in theory does have some power, any attempt to excercise it would be the end of the C of E & possibly the queen too.<BR><BR>Does anyone know why Catholics are always "devout" while Protestants are always "staunch"?

Michele

I am fairly well-educated, as are most of the people that surround me at my Methodist church every Sunday. I can't believe someone can honestly say that they "respect" believers, yet in the same sentence say that the institutions they believe in are "backwoods." Quite a nice little dichotomy there.<BR><BR>I think Americans are more religious because they still have optimism. They still have the capacity to believe in something larger than themselves because they haven't yet become too cynical and snide. Like it or not (and I know most of you don't like it), America is still the land of possibilities. It's not perfect, but then neither are any of us. We are, however, all forgiven.<BR><BR>

Michele

One last thought after re-reading some of the more disturbing posts on this thread - persecution of Christians appears to be alive and well throughout the world, even among "educated" people.

clairobscur

Michele,<BR><BR><BR>"Persecution" of christians? Criticizing a belief or its believers have nothing to do with "persecution". Perhaps you're too accustomed to a high degree of reverence toward religion to accept that it could be criticized in the same way than, say, a political opinion, or a a belief in astrology could be.<BR><BR><BR>But calling this "persecution" is laughable. Assuming you're living in a western country, how many people do you know who have been executed, arrested or denied their rights because they were christians?

Florence

- You don't like the Goths?<BR>- No! Not with the persecution we have to put up with!<BR> -Persecution?<BR>- Religious persecution. We won't stand for it forever.<BR>- I thought the Goths let everybody worship as they pleased.<BR>- That's just it! We Orthodox are forced to stand around and watch Arians and Monophysites and Nestorians and Jews going about their business unmolested, as if they owned the country. If that isn't persecution, I'd like to know what is!<BR>(L. Sprague de Camp, Lest Darkness Fall)<BR>

frank

IMO most people have no time for organised religion, but are wise enough to keep quiet about it because they know it upsets the devout - a bit like keeping the truth from the children.<BR><BR>Ireland & Italy used to give a lot of power to the church, both have seen the light recently.<BR><BR>This did not come about due to persecution or even persuasion.People just came to their senses.<BR><BR>Since then the lot of women & gay people (ie the majority) has improved in these places.

david west

The figures for church attendance in England are actually hugely inflated through the phenomenon of church schools.<BR><BR>Unfortunately the socialists in charge of education in this country (even when there is a tory governement the socialists run education) destroyed the only decent secular education available for free; the grammar schools.<BR><BR>THis leaves parents three stark choices: Go private (up to &pound;20,000 per kid per year, although a good day school can be had for &pound;5,000)<BR><BR>The state system: Basically dead in the water. There are pockets of excellence but it isn't what one would wish for one's children.<BR><BR>Church schools: Usually RC or CoE, which require some demonstration of faith for entry. These are usually the best schools in a neighbourhood. So anxious (possibly atheist) parents are forced to attend every sunday to give their kids a chance of being able to read and write.<BR><BR>One of the most noticable things to an Englishman is the public nature of American faith, eg when sportsmen win they thank God (who presuambly hated the other competitors) .<BR><BR>David (RC, not very observant)

spoon

At the risk of being called a pedant, the Church of England is not technically Protestant, as this term applies to Lutherans and Calvinists.<BR><BR>Henry VIII (or Henry Vill as I've heard him called by an American tourist) placed himself at the head of the Catholic Church of England, for a bunch of reasons, however he never wanted it "reformed" in the continental sense.<BR><BR>Keeping the heirarchical Catholic structure of Bishops alienated many of the true Protestant Lutheran and Calvinist reformers, who a while afterwards, after a deal of persecution buggered off to America.<BR><BR>High Church Anglicans, aka Anglo Catholics, are still known to hold mass in Latin<BR><BR>To actually answer the question, which nobody actually has:<BR><BR>The Queen is head of the Church of England, however Parliament is Sovereign and has no such connection.<BR><BR>As such, while The Church of England is the offical religion and regardless of the fact that Bishops sit in the House of Lords, it is seperate from Government.

elina

Alexander wrote "There are 'State' churches in Scandinavia, which are mostly Lutheran", and he is right. But Finland has two official churches: Lutheran and Orthodox (same as in Russia and Greece, for example). And yes, I think that state and church should be separated. And I have "divorced" myself from the church because of the taxes. <BR><BR>I was actually a little embarrased about all the church going in the USA. Here religion is a lot more private and personal thing, and not something that you shout from the rooftops. It is not a community thing, it is very quiet and personal.