Off the wall question - has anyone taken their puppy to europe with them?
 

We recently became pet parents to a wonderful wheaten boy named Clancy. Its going to be difficult to leave him behind if we take a planned 25th anniversary trip to europe next fall that will last 3-4 weeks. We have plenty of wiling pet sitters...the difficulty is with DH. Has anyone taken a pet with them on a trip? He'll be full grown by then and wouldn't fit under a seat on the plane so he'd be in cargo which isn't sounding too great. thanks!

The bigger issue is the rules and regulations that other countries have for bring in pets. Vet certifications, shots, etc. can make it very difficult. Finally getting back into the US can be a problem with paper work. Ask yourself, would you like to spend eight hour in a dark, noise hole, with no bathroom facilities, no food or water.

dog abuse IMO

Not to mention that when you are in Europe, you will be limited to only visiting places that accept a dog. good luck finding hotels/B&B's/apartments that allow dogs. Then, what do you do during the day? Take the dog for a walk? What restaurants would you go to? What museums or other cultural sites would you see with a dog? It would be miserable for you and for the dog. It is a dog, not a child. The dog will do just fine with a pet sitter.

"you will be limited to only visiting places that accept a dog"

My minions - the call themselves my Bosses, but who do they think they're kidding? - can't imagine travelling round the Continent without me.

And since I'm British, and there's all this palaver about having to go and get tortured before I'm allowed back home, the admin's a lot tougher for me than it is for any American dog. True, I sit on the back seat of the car all the way, and I think I'd sue them if they tried putting me in the hold of a plane - but we're allowed on the QM2 in proper kennels, with an exercise area.

But as far as the holiday itself's concerned:

- Most Continental hotels can't understand why the Boss asks if it's OK with me. Why wouldn't it be?

- I go wherever they eat. Apart from inside French motorway service stations, no-one's ever objected (To me? how could anyone?) I sit under the table, the waiters slip me slices of cheese and bob's your uncle

- Seeing things is sometimes tricky. I'm fine in churches (actually I like churches, because their lovely cold floors are much nicer than those hot pavements outside), except in Italy (that St Francis of theirs must be rolling in the grave they've put him in: they ban me from the basilica built over it). But that's OK, because there's usually somewhere in the porch where the unChristian gits don't object. Museums: usually I stay in the car or in an arcade. Outdoor sites: sometimes I go in, sometimes they leave me under a tree. Give me a bowl of water, and I'm delighted not to be getting dragged round three thousand Siennese Madonnas.

- Walking. Obviously not as good as at home. But with all those smells in new cities (being Continental, that means VERY smelly smells. Much pongier than at home. And that's just the humans), I run round far more than I would in the English countryside. So I'm more nackered every night.

Anyway, I LOVE going round French and Italian cities. Unlike back home, the food I steal in the streets is almost as nice as what the Bosses cook. Just one thing: no nice freshly dead pheasants. Otherwise - grrreat

flannerpooch - this is a puppy they are talking about - and even if it will be a year old are not puppies, if you can remember that far back, a lot more rambunctious and less world-wise?

when i said dog abuse i meant only with puppies -mature dogs like you - in your case really mature - are simply calmer and need less attention. Mature dogs i think could be fine with them - but a puppy - well not by judging those i've been around, including one recent Great Dane puppy who would have ripped and torn any hotel furnishings he could have got his teeth around.

The most stressful thing I have ever done is move my two pugs to the UK from Vancouver Canada. There is a tonne of red tape (not sure about france) but it would never be worth it to me for 3-4 weeks. Getting in and out of customs, the danger of flying in the hold...use the dog sitter and have a stress free vacation knowing your baby is safe and sound at home with a loving sitter.

And this is coming from a person who considers her puggies her children!

Can I give you some really savvy advice dear inamoured parents?
It's a dawg. It does not think like a human. It has no concept of time. It needs to be free of the rigours of flying in a cargo hole - yes hole, not hold! It deserves just to be left in it's own warm kennel (bed?) and wait for your return.
You will both be so glad you parted!
If you don't believe me, speak to a really jacked-up vetinarian.
Lastly - please don't torture this lovely dog.

I miss my dog when I travel to Europe, but no, I would never consider putting him through that long flight.

~Liz

I have a friend whose dog flew in a cargo hold and it about killed him. She doesn't think the hold was pressurized as it should have been. He was never the same. I wouldn't subject my pets to that unless I was moving to Europe.

As a UK resident with a dog who was born in Poland and imported by his original owners I can tell you the cost of flying a small West Highland White Terrier from Warsaw to Heathrow was nearly £2,000 six years ago. Then there's the cost the question of rabies shots etc, I have no idea of the cost in the States. My little terrierist goes to Doggy holiday camp where is has a wonderful time and I have peace of mind. From, I am guessing here, the US I cannot begin to imagine the cost of flight and the red tape involved. I am sure the Flannerpooch's owners, humans, could give you an isea of the cost of vet's charges in the UK, no doubt your own vet would give the cost. Plus do you really want to put the bog throught the trauma of flying in the hold on two long flights for a 3-4 week holiday.

I do know that continental Europe has a different idea of a dogs place to the UK's and it is normal for dogs to accompany their owners to restaurants. Would you want to have to take the dog with you everywhere, and consider where you might have to leave it while visiting attractions where dogs are not allowed. Think again please.

amwosu; right on. Cargo hold are not pressurised - why would they be? Ever retrieved your leaking badly shampoo or body lotion?! And, its freezing cold. We were absolutely aghast at opening our suitcases and retrieving a perfectly ice cold bottle of wine! Poor mutt.

No way.

Tod - "...Cargo hold are not pressurised - why would they be? ..." Complete and utter tosh. All commercial aircaft holds are pressurised, as indeed is every compartment within the outer pressure vessel. It's the cargo hold heating that's optional, depending on the compartment and the particular flight.

I agree that the cargo hold is meant to be pressurized. If not every single pet surely would die as there is no way they could withstand the altitudes involved.

In my friend's case she simply thinks the hold wasn't properly pressurized. Then again, it could have been working but the dog's ears didn't "clear" properly. He had ear issues and vertigo from then on.

One of my dogs comes from the Canary Islands. He flew is as a 12 week old puppy, along with several other dogs being rehomed in the Netherlands. He was sedated for the flight and survived it just fine, but it was only a 4 hour flight. He has never flown since.
My dogs go to a boarding kennels when we go on holiday.
They spent over 4 weeks there in April this year while we were in the US. I would never dream of taking them on a holiday that involves a flight. But then I don't take them when I go on holiday in Europe either. did it once, and it was no holiday. You have to schedule your life around your dog.
My dogs enjoyed their time in kennels. they are allowed to just be dogs - to play, eat sleep as they want. There is no expectation of them to be very obedient, they have access to an outside run whenever they want it, and they still go back to the kennels very happily even after there four weeks + there.
Leave your dog at home. Find a dog sitter or a good boarding kennels. Get the dog used to this by leaving him for a weekend or a week first. Go enjoy your holiday. he will enjoy his and will be thrilled to see you again when you get back.

If you do decide to take your dog then search for a thread about moving a dog to France here on Fodor's. It has all the legal requirements for bringing your dog to most of Europe, though not to the UK,Ireland or Malta who have different rules.

The reason our bloody pooch hogs this board whenever the subject comes up is that he spent the first half of his life in and out, traumatically, of rescue kennels. He can get over his anxiety about being separated from us in about 0.3 milliseconds with the right substitute bosses (qualification for being the right boss: being human and having food. Or if that's a problem, just having food). But his terror of being back in a kennel is almost uncontrollable.

What our brat points out, though, is that the mechanics of taking a dog to and round Europe really aren't a big deal - even though Britain's borders are about as friendly to arriving dogs as North Korea's are to escaping Koreans. Our holidays aren't organised round him: Continental Europe is mostly so dog-friendly he happily accommodates whatever we do - and he's part of our pack far more on holiday than under normal circumstances, so he'll put up with far more discomfort on holiday than at home.

All of which said, I'd be reluctant to put him on a plane. But I wouldn't take a high moral tone on this. What the pooch has done is to explain how effortless a holiday meandering round Europe with a dog is, and how much fun it can be for some dogs. Whether that's worth the stress of an unnecessary plane journey is a different matter.

Do remember, though, that the global horseracing industry is organised round flying highly strung, thoroughbred (therefore completely batty) horses around the world all the time. So is the top end of dog shows. Human-centric mammals DO adapt to flying - and those of us who have to contemplate the problem just once every few years might well know less about the real effect of flying on them than owners of Crufts or Longchamps winners do.

This topic has been covered on this board in depth. It makes no sense to subject a dog to the stress of an overseas flight, particularly in the cargo hold, unless it is absolutely necessary. Our dog, an Australian Shepherd, means the world to us. When we moved to Germany for 2.5 years, we were willing to go to extreme ends to ensure his safe transport. We could not take him on the same plane that we traveled on because we were on a corporate plane that did not have a pressurized cargo hold. We paid a lot of money to make sure that he was in good hands every step of the way (he flew Lufthansa cargo and we used a company called Air Animal to handle all of his paperwork and ground transportation). Needless to say, our dog's trip was the most stressful part of our move - both going and returning to the States.

I understand how much you love your dog - do him a favor and research a good kennel, if possible one where he can socialize with other dogs and have lots of time to run and play. (Since you will be gone for such a long stretch, I would do at least one trial visit beforehand.) He will thank you for it!

This is possibly one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard.

Dogs do NOT want to go to europe.

They don;t want to stay in hotels and make multiple train trips.

They most certainly do NOT want to spend 8 or 9 terrifying hours in the hold of a plane - cold and miserable - at best.

Separately, there are all sorts of complications in terms of rules and regs that would make this a major PIA.

I would speak to your vet for a reality check. And then pick a good pet sitter. (If you're that lonely for the dog, carry a DVD you can watch. If the dog misses you, call and talk to him on the phone.)

Also as someone else pointed out flying a dog across the Atlantic is a ridiculously expensive hobby.